I don't know if this really belongs in this sub, but it ties into some topics we've discussed here at length, and I thought the last sentence was particularly keen. I think it also stood out for me because earlier this week, a woman on Facebook went apeshit at me because I didn't think she was funny, and busted out "nigger bitch" and references to lynching a dozen or so times.
Thought I'd share here, because you guys are pretty fucking smart and I wondered what your take on it is.
http://www.rolereboot.org/culture-and-politics/details/2013-07-what-youre-really-saying-when-you-call-me-a-bitch
QuoteI'm on an arbitrary crosswalk on an arbitrary Sunday in Chicago when it happens. He's in his early 40′s, nicely dressed. As we head in opposite directions, elbows almost bumping, he leans into my space, face inches from mine and hisses, "Fuck you, bitch." He keeps walking, and I stop dead in the middle of the street, hoping someone else just saw that.
It's the "bitch" that kept swinging through the revolving door in my brain as I walked the half mile home. Why did he call me that? I didn't do anything to him, I didn't say anything to him, I didn't even look at him. Was I supposed to smile? A random "fuck you" might just be the standard cost of living in a large city where you encounter the occasional unstable citizen, but the "bitch" added insult to injury.
From where I'm standing, with no othr informtion, that guy is a scary, sociopathic monster who will eventually do something terrible to another human.
Yyyyeeeahhhh. And right now there's some precious little twat in Partially Examined Life or whatever it's called, trying to proclaim that because in HIS personal experience and intuition "bitch" is no longer primarily leveed against women, it wasn't a gender-based slur.
Quote from: The Right Reverend Nigel on September 06, 2014, 05:25:29 AM
Yyyyeeeahhhh. And right now there's some precious little twat in Partially Examined Life or whatever it's called, trying to proclaim that because in HIS personal experience and intuition "bitch" is no longer primarily leveed against women, it wasn't a gender-based slur.
I think I made this point before, but when "bitch" is used against a woman, it's usually a reaction to some perceived unfeminine quality (aggressiveness, assertiveness, generally not being sweet and accommodating). When a man is called a "bitch" it's to insult him for being a pushover or a whiner, i.e. "unmanly."
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on September 06, 2014, 07:56:13 PM
Quote from: The Right Reverend Nigel on September 06, 2014, 05:25:29 AM
Yyyyeeeahhhh. And right now there's some precious little twat in Partially Examined Life or whatever it's called, trying to proclaim that because in HIS personal experience and intuition "bitch" is no longer primarily leveed against women, it wasn't a gender-based slur.
I think I made this point before, but when "bitch" is used against a woman, it's usually a reaction to some perceived unfeminine quality (aggressiveness, assertiveness, generally not being sweet and accommodating). When a man is called a "bitch" it's to insult him for being a pushover or a whiner, i.e. "unmanly."
Yeah, it's kind of misogynistic either way that it's being used.
This kid in the group, he seems like a 19-year-old philosophy major.
A term to assert dominance over another. It's basically saying, "If I wanted to, I could rape you right now...in fact I might." It's misogynistic in the worst way possible. Sexism isn't about wangs and boobies--it's about a specific power dynamic. "Bitch" is made of that power dynamic. Applying it without regard to organs, doesn't make that any less so. In fact, it makes it kind of more so.
On a funny note, it's always an interesting sight to see someone with a flippant "I learned thuggin' from the TV" attitude call someone a bitch who's been to prison or who, in some other way, takes that term very seriously. The single worst beating I've ever seen in my life happened under that circumstance.
Like with just about every other word in English, the word "bitch" has a lot of uses. None of those uses are particularly enlightened, and most of them are in fact based on assumptions about gender roles. The woman who asserts herself is a 'bitch,' the man who fails to assert himself is a 'bitch,' and it is also a word for constant non-constructive whining and complaining, which may or may not be intended as a comparison to women but even if it isn't, it's very clearly not avoiding such comparison.
I personally do not use the word, and when someone else uses it, especially when a man uses it in reference to a woman, I always cringe a little, just because it's saying a lot more about the speaker than about the target of the epithet, and every time I hear it I have to say to myself "well now we know we're in the company of an asshole."
Less clear to me is its implication when it is used by a woman toward another woman. Does it mean that the woman using the word has wholesale bought into gender role assumptions? I don't think so, based on the fact that some very 'progressive' women I know use the term simply to describe other women who are needlessly callous or seem to take pleasure in someone else's discomfort. In those cases I get the feeling that "bitch" is used purposely as a hurtful word, which means that it carries a lot of weight and social stigma behind it, and for that reason alone I suppose I should never use it just because if a word has that much negative force, there are probably better things for me to be saying.
Then there's the use of the term in queer culture, which quite often uses it in a "group of friends" way: "Where my bitches at!?" Which, it should be noted, was most likely appropriated from/shared by parts of black culture.
Of course, context is very meaningful. When the term is not being used as a pejorative, which also happens, there is a different dynamic and subtext.
Quote from: The Right Reverend Nigel on September 06, 2014, 09:42:03 PM
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on September 06, 2014, 07:56:13 PM
Quote from: The Right Reverend Nigel on September 06, 2014, 05:25:29 AM
Yyyyeeeahhhh. And right now there's some precious little twat in Partially Examined Life or whatever it's called, trying to proclaim that because in HIS personal experience and intuition "bitch" is no longer primarily leveed against women, it wasn't a gender-based slur.
I think I made this point before, but when "bitch" is used against a woman, it's usually a reaction to some perceived unfeminine quality (aggressiveness, assertiveness, generally not being sweet and accommodating). When a man is called a "bitch" it's to insult him for being a pushover or a whiner, i.e. "unmanly."
Yeah, it's kind of misogynistic either way that it's being used.
This kid in the group, he seems like a 19-year-old philosophy major.
19-year-old philosophy major? He doesn't happen to be a Subgenius...? I know one of those.
Quote from: nonheroick on September 13, 2014, 05:43:30 PM
Quote from: The Right Reverend Nigel on September 06, 2014, 09:42:03 PM
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on September 06, 2014, 07:56:13 PM
Quote from: The Right Reverend Nigel on September 06, 2014, 05:25:29 AM
Yyyyeeeahhhh. And right now there's some precious little twat in Partially Examined Life or whatever it's called, trying to proclaim that because in HIS personal experience and intuition "bitch" is no longer primarily leveed against women, it wasn't a gender-based slur.
I think I made this point before, but when "bitch" is used against a woman, it's usually a reaction to some perceived unfeminine quality (aggressiveness, assertiveness, generally not being sweet and accommodating). When a man is called a "bitch" it's to insult him for being a pushover or a whiner, i.e. "unmanly."
Yeah, it's kind of misogynistic either way that it's being used.
This kid in the group, he seems like a 19-year-old philosophy major.
19-year-old philosophy major? He doesn't happen to be a Subgenius...? I know one of those.
Yes, they certainly aren't to be trusted. Those guys. Those others.
OTHERS.
:argh!:
Quote from: nonheroick on September 13, 2014, 05:43:30 PM
Quote from: The Right Reverend Nigel on September 06, 2014, 09:42:03 PM
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on September 06, 2014, 07:56:13 PM
Quote from: The Right Reverend Nigel on September 06, 2014, 05:25:29 AM
Yyyyeeeahhhh. And right now there's some precious little twat in Partially Examined Life or whatever it's called, trying to proclaim that because in HIS personal experience and intuition "bitch" is no longer primarily leveed against women, it wasn't a gender-based slur.
I think I made this point before, but when "bitch" is used against a woman, it's usually a reaction to some perceived unfeminine quality (aggressiveness, assertiveness, generally not being sweet and accommodating). When a man is called a "bitch" it's to insult him for being a pushover or a whiner, i.e. "unmanly."
Yeah, it's kind of misogynistic either way that it's being used.
This kid in the group, he seems like a 19-year-old philosophy major.
19-year-old philosophy major? He doesn't happen to be a Subgenius...? I know one of those.
He might be, but I think there are along the lines of 24,800 19-year-old philosophy majors in the US at any given time.
DISCLAIMER; I DID NOT REPLY TO UR THREAD BECAUSE OF THAT OTHER THING. THE TITLE CAUGHT MY EYE.
I read the article.
I like this part ;
"Bitch" is about not fitting the mold that women are supposed to fit. It is aimed at women who behave in "male" ways, women who are too ambitious or aggressive, women who are not as nice or as quiet as some people would like them to be."
Is basically true.
HOWEVER I have a question, if a bitch is sitting on my face and while giving me a moment to breath I call her a bitch to spice things up a bit, is that wrong? Like am I going to tumblr hell for that and will she feel degraded after or empowered?
It thinks it's people.
Quote from: Your Mom on September 10, 2014, 07:47:42 PM
Of course, context is very meaningful. When the term is not being used as a pejorative, which also happens, there is a different dynamic and subtext.
Exactly this IMO. A random "Fuck you bitch" can be taken as nothing but the worst meanings intentionally to any person it's directed at. A smiling "Fuck you bitch" in intimate company could be a tacit admission of defeat, a signal of genuine but benign annoyance, a come on, or any number of things. Tone and context count for so much more in communication than specific wording that in a very real sense sometimes words only add flavor to the meaning.
This applies to all the major '-bomb' words in my opinion. I grew up in a Wisconsin pit named Racine where some time before I was born the N-bomb became so prolific that it's contextual meaning grew well beyond racism (the root of racism being racine, french for root :fnord:). There in a bar I would very likely have to shout it at a black person with clear intent to be taken as insulting them for their ethnicity. This is something unique to the area. My language tends to get quite vulgar and I consciously reign it in, but if back in my hometown among my extremely multi ethnic set that and worse just roll right off my tongue without even the slightest trace of the malice that most would take it as.
Take from this what you will I guess.