Insert transparent anti-torture propaganda here

[Doktor Howl]

Vallee has an interesting devil's advocate position here: http://www.boingboing.net/2009/11/18/waterboardings-curio.html

He isn't advocating waterboarding, Enki.  Read it again.

Though I did have a good chuckle at the first comment, by some simpering coward who calls himself "Dragon Lord". 

[Rococo Modem Basilisk]

Oh, I realize he isn't advocating waterboarding. But, I agree with his analysis -- it's preferable to have clumsy non-working methods of interrogation rather than the clean and effective methods promised back in the sixties.

That said, in the united states at least, I can't imagine any of those methods would ever get produced. Of all the interrogation methods described in the MK-ULTRA documents, the one that makes the most sense is the one where you give someone a tranquilizer, and then give them an amphetamine when it starts working (then hope they babble about the right things).

[Requia ☣]

Using drugs for interrogation tends to do longterm damage to the mind.

[Rococo Modem Basilisk]

Thumbscrews, pine splints, and the rack tend to do long term damage to the everything.

Besides, wasn't the point to brainwash the ones who wouldn't talk anyway?

[Requia ☣]

Also, where could one find a copy of (whats left of) the MK Ultra papers?

[Rococo Modem Basilisk]

Also, where could one find a copy of (whats left of) the MK Ultra papers?

http://www.michael-robinett.com/declass/c000.htm

The wikipedia article has decent summaries.

[Requia ☣]

Well yes, but the excuse for torture apologists is that doing things like waterboarding or raping prisoners doesn't (which is bullshit).  They need their nice and clean forms of torture so they can sleep at night.

[Doktor Howl]

Oh, I realize he isn't advocating waterboarding. But, I agree with his analysis -- it's preferable to have clumsy non-working methods of interrogation rather than the clean and effective methods promised back in the sixties.

Neither is acceptable, neither is better than the other.

There is no excuse for torture, and certainly not "at least we're not doing worse things".

[Requia ☣]

Also, where could one find a copy of (whats left of) the MK Ultra papers?

http://www.michael-robinett.com/declass/c000.htm

The wikipedia article has decent summaries.

Thanks, I think I'll wait till I'm not on the verge of throwing up to read that though.

[Rococo Modem Basilisk]

Also, where could one find a copy of (whats left of) the MK Ultra papers?

http://www.michael-robinett.com/declass/c000.htm

The wikipedia article has decent summaries.

Thanks, I think I'll wait till I'm not on the verge of throwing up to read that though.

It reads like comedy, not tragedy. It's like "Mister Magoo Does Unethical Human Experimentation". It only breaks into horrormirth when they start working on the psychic driving technique..