So there's a decent story regarding Israel quite often and I've just been shoving them in random news. Flicking back over the past few months, there's pretty much no end of strange shit so I'll start shoving it here instead.
Today, we have this:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-25108559
QuoteA Hollywood producer behind hit films such as Pretty Woman and Fight Club has said he spied for Israel in support of its nuclear programme.
Arnon Milchan, who was born in what is now Israel, gave an account to Israeli investigative programme Uvda.
Mr Milchan said he performed dozens of clandestine missions on behalf of Israel after he was recruited by Shimon Peres, now Israel's president.
"I did it for my country and I'm proud of it," he said.
QuoteMr Milchan told Uvda that rumours of his own involvement with Israel had swirled around Hollywood for years and he wished he had addressed them head on.
"In Hollywood, they don't like working with an arms dealer, ideologically... with someone who lives off selling machine guns and killing," he said. "Instead of someone talking to me about a script, I had to spend half an hour explaining that I'm not an arms dealer.
"I'm not an arms dealer, I don't sell guns, I don't sell rockets," he added. "If people knew how many times I risked my life, back and forth, again and again, for my country."
Like many of these stories, I have no idea how much shady shit is also involved here beyond "A lot". What you can see is the reaction to the story. Is the USA pissed and demanding extradition? Behave. The man is clearly crazy and there is no history of people in entertainment being involved in espionage. There will certainly be no collusion of any sort or any money changing hands either.
The other scary thing is the straight up bug eyed "I'M RIGHT" conviction. From the Knesset to the frontier settlers this attitude scares the shit out of me. If his claims have any substance then I'm sure he'll have been convinced he did the correct thing. Which could have some unpleasant repercussions in the future.
In contrast, stuff like this is pretty routine:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-25111227
Quotesraeli security forces have killed three suspected Palestinian militants in the West Bank, according to Israel's Shin Bet internal intelligence agency.
Two of the suspected militants were from a Salafi jihadist network that was active in the area, Shin Bet said.
Members of the movement are thought to operate in both the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.
According to security agents, the network was planning attacks on Israel in the coming days.
And always pops up around tales like the above. Like the above, there's probably much more going on here than I (can) know about. As such, I'll just try and be fair about this and keep a running death toll from tales featured in this thread.
Israeli - 0
Palestinian - 3
What's new?
This is new.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-25211759
QuoteA senior commander of the Lebanese Shia militant group Hezbollah has been killed near Beirut, the group says.
Hassan Lakkis was "assassinated" near his home in Hadath - 7km (4.3 miles) south-east of the Lebanese capital, Hezbollah TV channel Al-Manar said.
Hezbollah blamed Israel for his death but Israel denies the accusation.
The BBC's Jim Muir, in Beirut, says little is known publicly about Lakkis, but he was reputedly close to Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah.
The news comes a day after Hassan Nasrallah said Saudi Arabia was behind last month's bombings outside the Iranian embassy in Beirut.
Got to give Israel the benefit of the doubt here considering this:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-25210712
QuoteThe head of the Lebanese Shia militant group Hezbollah has said Saudi Arabia was behind last month's bombings outside the Iranian embassy in Beirut.
Hassan Nasrallah told Lebanon's OTV television the attack was linked to the Saudi intelligence services.
The Sunni jihadist group Abdullah Azzam Brigades said it was behind the double suicide bombing which killed 25 people.
QuoteIn the interview, Hassan Nasrallah said the Abdullah Azzam Brigades, the al-Qaeda-linked group, "has an emir and he is Saudi".
He said he believed that the group was "linked to the Saudi intelligence services".
The story here seems to be "Listen to Israel make a lot of noise while totally ignoring the probable culprits". Good luck determining the responsible people too as if it was SA actors they could be all sorts of nationalities. When was the last time you even thought about Chechen rebels before Boston?
It's likely and probable that Israel had a hand in intel gathering though so while the trigger was probably pulled by a third party, I doubt there's many tears in the Knesset over the regrettable incident.
Possibly poisoned man possibly not poisoned:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-25205170
QuoteA team of French scientists probing the death of Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat in 2004 do not believe he was poisoned, according to leaks from their report.
They have reportedly concluded he died after a "generalised infection".
A previous report by Swiss scientists said tests on his body showed "unexpected high activity" of polonium.
This "moderately" supported the theory, long believed by many Palestinians, that he was poisoned, the report said.
Arafat's widow, Suha Arafat, told reporters in Paris she was "upset by these contradictions by the best European experts on the matter."
The Swiss say yes, France say no. Nothing suspicious here.
QuoteLast month, a forensic expert said that the levels of radioactive polonium found in Mr Arafat's remains by the Swiss scientists were 18 to 36 times higher than normal.
Nothing suspicious at all.
The idea that the Saudis would not have least asked the Israelis for actionable intelligence on this Hezbollah commander seems somewhat unlikely.
Saudi Arabia isn't exactly known for its subtle information gathering processes, rather belonging to the school of "hope they're a Sunni nutcase, or else bring a briefcase full of cash" school of intelligence acquisition.
To be fair, people routinely overestimate the cunning and skill of Mossad, who are convinced Iran is one or two years away from a nuke, every year, for the past twenty years. But they at least know how to go about infiltrating agents, turning people...actually managing humint, even if Mossad have not exactly covered themselves in glory in the past decade. It's not like Mossad has really gotten ahead of any actual security threat posed to Israel in the past decade, instead preferring to whack the occasional militant with obviously stolen passports and possibly kill an old man with polonium.
I mean, shit, I could do half of that.
But predicting the Arab Spring, the increasingly Global Jihadist worldview of successors to Fatah, the 2006 Lebanon War, Operation Cast Lead etc....yeah.
Israel news with no deaths?
OK
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-25672377
QuoteA global advertising company that denied its child-obesity campaign promoted "fat-shaming" has caved to public pressure and pulled a series of ads, it appears.
JCDecaux asked members of the public to post humorous images to its Hebrew-language Facebook page, putting the most popular images up on billboards around Israel.
"When your child gains weight, his smile becomes smaller," read one in Tel Aviv - showing an overweight child with enlarged cheeks and a tiny mouth. Another showed a cartoon of three children on a one side of a see-saw but just one on the other, with the headline "one in every four children in Israel is obese".
(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/72180000/jpg/_72180633_982.jpg)
I'm sure we all remember what an effective tool shame is for changing people's behaviour for the better.
Then we have this little gem:
http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/14/politics/u-s-israel-kerry-remarks/ (http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/14/politics/u-s-israel-kerry-remarks/)
Quote
(CNN) -- U.S. officials reacted angrily Tuesday to comments attributed to Israel's defense minister criticizing Secretary of State John Kerry's efforts to broker a peace agreement between Israel and Palestinians.
The derisive remarks appeared in a popular daily Israeli newspaper, Yedioth Ahronot, and reflect Moshe Yaalon's skepticism of the Kerry-led U.S. efforts "both in private conversations in Israel and in the U.S."
"American Secretary of State John Kerry, who turned up here determined and acting out of misplaced obsession and messianic fervor, cannot teach me anything about the conflict with the Palestinians," Yaalon said, according to the paper.
And then the "apology":
Quote
"Israel and the United States share a common goal to advance the peace talks between Israel and the Palestinians led by Secretary Kerry. We appreciate Secretary Kerry's many efforts towards that end," the release said. "The defense minister had no intention to cause any offense to the secretary, and he apologizes if the secretary was offended by words attributed to the minister."
So basically Mr. Yaalon said "Kerry is an idiot", to which the Israeli government then followed with "sorry if that offended you".
Judging from what my Israeli acquaintances have to say about the Obama government, their overall opinion has slipped from "stupid" to "abysmally stupid", at least insofar as the Middle East is concerned.
I haven't been watching Obama administration policies in the Middle East at all until the past few months, but the word "clueless" comes to mind. Are they so hamstrung by Affordable Care that they can no longer tell their ass from their elbow? What can they possibly be thinking?
The White House are pretty hopeless...but the Israeli government has also been very hostile to the White House since the word "go". Almost irrationally so, I mean, this is all pre-Arab Spring stuff I'm thinking of, and they were being mindlessly antagonistic towards Obama.
Probably because the Israeli and American right are joined at the hip, and the cross-pollination of memes has equally unhinged them, and having being used to getting their own way when Bush was President they weren't keen on Obama's NSC people, who are far more "America-first" types. Obama can't be trusted to secure Israeli interests, and furthermore serves as an example to other American politicians who are less than supportive of Israeli policies.
It seems that the possibility of any kind of two-state solution is pretty much dead:
(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/70886000/gif/_70886271_jordan_vallery_map_464.gif)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-26085337
QuoteThe Israeli military has removed Palestinian activists protesting at a deserted village in the West Bank.
Dozens of demonstrators had spent a week camping at Ein Hijleh in the Jordan Valley.
The final status of the area is a key point of contention in US-brokered peace talks with Israel.
The raid took place as aid agencies expressed alarm at a rise in Israeli demolitions of Palestinian property, particularly in the Jordan Valley.
The map emphasises just how much of a problem the settlements have now caused. They won't be surrendered and they will fight tooth and nail to stay. More land grabbing at 11.
And if Israel did ever give them up, you'd no doubt see settler terrorism occuring, both against Palestinians and the Israeli government (remember what happened to Rabin? I bet every Israeli leader since has).
Oh, undoubtedly. It's a situation which is almost guaranteed to be self perpetuating.
I've been reading up on the longer term goals of the Israeli planning department. To say "religiously motivated" would be something of an understatement. There appears to be a desire in the long term to reclaim Israel's' apparent historic borders which could lead to all sorts of fun as the Euphrates seems to feature highly and large chunks of Iraq are apparently required. Thar be lunacy here.
Bump
http://www.juancole.com/2014/04/settlers-christian-village.html
QuoteAlthough the majority of these attacks have occurred in the West Bank, Christians in Jerusalem and throughout Israeli have also come under attack. As a series of 2012 Haaretz articles pointed out, Christian clergy who dress in 'priestly garb' are frequently spat on as they walk through Jerusalem's Old City; as one priest commented 'it's almost impossible to pass through Jaffa Gate without this happening'. In fact, these anti-Christian attacks have become so frequent that in 2012 the Catholic leadership of Palestine issued a statement entitled, Declaration of the Assembly of Catholic Ordinaries of the Holy Land, in which they urged the Israeli authorities to address the 'teaching of contempt' in Israeli schools. Suggesting that, 'the time has come for the authorities to act and to put an end to this senseless violence and to ensure a "teaching of respect" in schools for all those who call this land home.'
However, the Deir Rafat attack also highlights the contempt that the settler movement and radical right hold for the peace process. Other areas of the Monastery at Deir Rafat were tagged with the slogans, 'America is Nazi Germany' and 'the price to pay for the peace agreement', which suggests that the settler movement in some way associates attacks on Christian sites with revenge against America or the international community.
The settlers are really getting out of control. There's a really nasty undercurrent to Jewish fundamentalism, it's disdainful of women, non-Jews and "the West" in general. Sounds kinda like the fundamentalist version of another popular religion in that part of the world.
But most interestingly, it seems to absolutely hate America. And it's bleeding over into the popular culture. Consider the
absolutely hysterical attacks on Obama from Israeli commentators and protestors.
And yet, we continue to give Israel billions of dollars.
Nothing new there.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Contra_affair
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddam_Hussein#Iran.E2.80.93Iraq_War
You'll note the prevalance of the Bush family in these deals. Just coincidence...well in this context, at least.
Related:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-27128902
QuoteRival Palestinian factions of Fatah and Hamas announce reconciliation deal
More to follow.
Just broke, but almost certainly worth a look at when more details are out.
Interesting:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-27180003
QuoteIn his statement, Mr Abbas "expressed his sympathy with the families of the victims and many other innocent people who were killed by the Nazis".
"The Holocaust is a reflection of the concept of ethnic discrimination and racism which the Palestinians strongly reject and act against," he went on.
He also urged the Israeli government to use "the incredibly sad commemoration of Holocaust day" to take the chance to find a "just and comprehensive" peace with his people, based on a two-state solution.
QuoteMr Netanyahu told CNN on Sunday that Israel "will not negotiate with a government backed by Hamas".
So this Fatah/Hamas reconciliation is looking at little short lived, even by the standards of the region.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-27863465
Quotesraeli troops searching for three Israeli teenagers missing in the West Bank have clashed with Palestinians, detaining scores for questioning.
As the army stepped up the search, it said it had arrested 150 Palestinians, including leading Hamas members.
Palestinian medics say a 19-year-old was shot dead during clashes near Ramallah, which erupted after soldier conducted house-to-house searches.
Israel has accused Hamas of kidnapping the teens, though Hamas denies this.
"Those who carried out the kidnapping of our youngsters are Hamas people," Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said on Sunday.
Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri called Mr Netanyahu's statements "silly" and said the arrests were "aimed at breaking the will of the Hamas movement in the West Bank".
3 kids go missing, someone's assumed a kidnapping and shit ensues.
Good rule of thumb - Kidnappers tend to make requests. Kind of the point of the thing. I've no idea what's actually happened to these kids but arresting 150 people seems like a ridiculous and disproportionate response. Business as usual in Israel then.
If the kids turn up as ISIS militants, I'll probably piss myself with laughter. I'm kind of expecting exactly that despite it being rather unlikely.
Thread title is rather apt:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28102253
Quotesrael has vowed retribution against Hamas, the militant Palestinian group it accuses of the kidnap and murder of three teenagers.
The bodies of Naftali Frenkel, Gilad Shaar and Eyal Yifrach were found on Monday evening, after they had been missing for more than a fortnight.
Israel PM Benyamin Netanyahu said: "Hamas is responsible and Hamas will pay." Hamas denies any involvement.
Israel launched more than 30 air strikes on the Gaza Strip overnight.
The strikes came in response to 18 rocket attacks on southern Israel from Gaza since Sunday night, the Israeli military said.
Israeli troops also flooded into the Palestinian town of Halhul. The bodies were found under a pile of rocks near the town. An Israeli official said it appeared the teenagers were shot soon after their abduction.
It will argue with renewed conviction that such a government has no credibility and will seek to drive a wedge between the two factions.
Israel named two suspects as Ayoub al-Kawasma and Abu Aisheh. The Israeli military said it set off explosives while raiding the homes of both.
QuoteThe disappearance of the teenagers on 12 June sparked a huge search operation in Palestinian towns and cities across the West Bank.
More than 400 Palestinians were arrested, while five were killed in fighting with Israeli troops.
Mr Netanyahu has said the incident is a consequence of "the partnership" between Hamas and the Fatah movement of Mr Abbas.
By "the incident" I can only assume he means the formation of the unity government and this is just one of the many coming ways in which Palestinians will be fucked with until another intifada is either inevitable or unavoidable. I can only assume that this is exactly what Israel wants in general as it allows increased military presence in settler camps and the west bank in general.
A suspicious man might start to think about other people with a political interest in 3 dead kids. Like say, Netanyahu. The whole thing stinks when applying the "Cui bono?" test. I can't see any obvious or hidden benefit for Hamas or any Palestinian groups to have carried this out. I'm not saying that it's impossible, just that there's no obvious benefit to me. Benefits for Israel, well, there's more than a few.
I was, in fact, going to ask what the probability was of this being a false flag, because Israel is pissed off about the unity government.
Personally, I'd have to put it at over 50%. Between the timing, number of people arrested and various other things it just seems more like an exercise in intimidation than a murder investigation.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28205090
Quotesrael has carried out more air strikes on the Gaza Strip, following dozens of rockets fired by the Palestinian Islamist movement Hamas.
At least 15 Palestinians, including two women and a child, were reportedly hurt in the strikes.
Hamas said it fired rockets to respond to "Zionist aggression", after accusing Israel of killing five of its fighters.
Israel denied the claim. It says it has now begun an open-ended aerial operation to end rocket fire from Gaza.
If that makes sense to you, you're doing better than me.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28240137
I don't know if I've mentioned this previously, but the Iron dome defence system is a fucking joke.
QuoteThe military said its Iron Dome missile defence system had intercepted 21 of the 82 rockets fired on Wednesday, including three above Tel Aviv, three over Ashkelon and three over Ashdod.
Israel has carried out more than 230 air strikes since Tuesday, hitting nearly 600 targets as part of its operation Protective Edge.
QuoteOh. Yeah. Death toll:
QuoteMore than 60 Palestinians are reported to have died since Tuesday in Israeli air strikes against militants.
Have a guess at what it costs to intercept each rocket. Go on. Ready?
QuoteThe estimated cost of each Tamir interceptor missile is US$35,000–50,000[22] whereas a crudely manufactured Qassam rocket costs around $800 and the cost of each Hamas Grad rocket is only several thousand dollars.[106][107] Rafael responded that the cost issue was exaggerated since Iron Dome intercepts only rockets determined to constitute a threat, and that the lives saved and the strategic impact are worth the cost
So, low end, Hamas has cost Israel $735,000 just in rockets alone. In a few days. That's ignoring other damage and casualties.
After you're done laughing, realise that it's only catching 25% of what it's intended to. So not only is it horribly expensive, it's useless around 75% of the time. Name any other thing that you'd be happy with not working 3/4 of the time you need it to. Now name something with military use that this would be OK for. It's all good though, because those 75% missed or ignored were not going to save enough lives(Implication here is that some lives are worth more than others, and that many lives are apparently not worth more than $35K.) or prevent enough property damage to matter.
Seriously, this probably tells you everything you need to know:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Dome
QuoteAccording to the leading developers of Iron Dome, due to schedule and low-cost settings constraints, some of the missile components have been taken from a toy car manufactured/sold by Toys "R" Us
QuoteAlthough Postol had earlier lauded Iron Dome's effectiveness,[94] after studying videos of the alleged warhead interceptions as well as police reports and other data, he argued that "Iron Dome's intercept rate, defined as destruction of the rocket's warhead was relatively low, perhaps as low as 5%,
Well, so long as the US is throwing billions of dollars a year at Israel without a second thought, they're not going to be strapped for cash any time soon.
Very true, though part of me does wish the teabillies would catch on to this and actually scream about something that is beyond the end of their nose.
I'm not holding my breath for that.
From what I have gathered, Americans would rather Israel be our #1 welfare queen in attempts to fight the terrorisms than see that money go toward anything good here stateside.
Quote from: Junkenstein on July 10, 2014, 12:23:37 PM
Very true, though part of me does wish the teabillies would catch on to this and actually scream about something that is beyond the end of their nose.
I'm not holding my breath for that.
The teabillies who do catch on to this are generally called "antisemites" by their opponents and get smeared as being nuts anytime they open their mouths about it.
Quote from: von on July 16, 2014, 12:05:46 AM
Quote from: Junkenstein on July 10, 2014, 12:23:37 PM
Very true, though part of me does wish the teabillies would catch on to this and actually scream about something that is beyond the end of their nose.
I'm not holding my breath for that.
The teabillies who do catch on to this are generally called "antisemites" by their opponents and get smeared as being nuts anytime they open their mouths about it.
This is exactly the issue I'm having trying to explain the situation to people who don't want to hear it, even from an academic historian point of view. I'm immediately labeled an anti-Semite, and get the ad homina thrown at me, because how dare I not defend Outremer... I mean, Israel!
Quote from: The Suu on July 16, 2014, 04:09:01 AM
Quote from: von on July 16, 2014, 12:05:46 AM
Quote from: Junkenstein on July 10, 2014, 12:23:37 PM
Very true, though part of me does wish the teabillies would catch on to this and actually scream about something that is beyond the end of their nose.
I'm not holding my breath for that.
The teabillies who do catch on to this are generally called "antisemites" by their opponents and get smeared as being nuts anytime they open their mouths about it.
This is exactly the issue I'm having trying to explain the situation to people who don't want to hear it, even from an academic historian point of view. I'm immediately labeled an anti-Semite, and get the ad homina thrown at me, because how dare I not defend Outremer... I mean, Israel!
without warlike, apartheid state israel though, there could be another shoah though! You wouldnt want another shoah would you! In order to prevent another shoah, we NEED to give israel aid money and turn a blind eye when they sell our military technology to the chinese! I mean, you could criticise all this, but id hate to think youd want another shoah! Thatd make you worse that hitler!
/sarcasm
Yeah...i think i know what you mean. Anyone, teabagger or otherwise, who criticises israel has to answer almost immediately to godwins law.
Aaaaaand Israel is on the ground in Gaza.
Quote from: The Suu on July 17, 2014, 09:38:05 PM
Aaaaaand Israel is on the ground in Gaza.
It's sorta like watching the Titanic back up for another run at the iceberg.
Do precisely what your opponent wants you to do. It worked out so well last time around in Beirut, right?
This entire episode is dumb as fuck, even by the low standards of the Israeli/Palestine conflict.
Israel - ask for dumb as fuck pre-guarantees in regards to talks with Hamas
Hamas - reject dumb as fuck pre-talk guarantees, despite being obviously a trap
Israel - freak the fuck out over three murders, even though the likelihood that Hamas is guilty is very low
Hamas - stick the boot in about the three murders, making them look even more guilty than they actually are
Israel - some dumbfucks kidnap and kill an Arab Israeli in retaliation for the murders. Israel escalates searchs and detention of Palestinians.
Hamas - blindly fires rockets into Israeli territory. All fail to hurt anyone.
Israel - launches massive airstrikes in retaliation. Deploys illegal weaponry designed to kill civilians, mulls turning water off/denying food to Gaza. Attacks UN buildings and critical infrastructure instead of Hamas strongholds.
Hamas - keeps firing missiles, despite the fact they're clearly not working.
Israel - lets retards run around acting like Nazis on social media ("kill 1000 Palestinians for every Israeli", "killing Arabs gives me an orgasm" etc) in order to whip up the bloodthirsty dumbfucks into more murders. Deploy ground forces into Gaza, to compound dumbfuckery.
This is the kind of dumbfuckery that makes me all nostalgic, reminding me as it does of the Bush years.
Also, this (http://www.tinyrevolution.com/mt/archives/003710.html#rssowlmlink):
QuoteBut how did Israel come to occupy Gaza in the first place? Well, in the Six Day War in June, 1967 Israel conquered Gaza (along with the West Bank, the Golan Heights and the Sinai).
Israel shot first in the Six Day War, and, as Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin later explained, it was a "war of choice" and there was "no proof" that Arab countries were going to attack them.
So what justification did Israel give at the time for shooting first? They said that in fact they hadn't started the war, because Egypt had already started it by blockading an Israeli port several weeks before.
QuoteBy Israel's standards, Hamas has been entitled (since the start of the blockade in 2007) to invade Israel and then occupy it for forty years.
QuoteThis is the kind of dumbfuckery that makes me all nostalgic, reminding me as it does of the Bush years.
I can't help but wonder, which one?
As for:
Quote"kill 1000 Palestinians for every Israeli"
It's pretty fucking disturbing that the ratio is already at something like 250/300:1. I think it's fairly safe to say that the unity government is pretty fucked for the forseeable future. Which I'm sure was not the intent here
at all.
Israel's political culture is pretty sick. A lot of it reminds me of Amurrica circa 2003...you probably remember those years as almost a fever dream of dumbfuckery, exaltation in violence and crass racism.
Israel's smaller than America, and it's also been boiling longer. I really worry that, one day, they'll go way over the edge and entirely beyond the pale, unless things change and soon. Their political institutions can only hold for so long against the forces they've unleashed.
Beyond the obvious (attacking a place that isn't Palestine), how could you actually tell if they've gone over the edge? A lot of behaviours since the second intifada just keep begging for Godwins law and it's increasingly impossible to ignore now.
Unfortunately, I guess this is what happens when you establish a country on religious grounds with the political leaders obsessed with the idea that they're the chosen ones and then support it at all costs regardless of potential consequences. Hard to believe that could cause problems.
It's interesting how you compare it to the US in around 2003. A lot of the settlers, particularly in somewhat disputed regions seem to be the Israeli answer to the Tea party. They're largely religious fanatics with no concern for anything beyond their own interests and even they own government is struggling to control them. Of course, there's plenty in the government who have no interest in controlling them as they help prevent a 2 state solution ever being viable.
Well, when they start going officially after Arabs inside their core territory, that will be a bad sign. Most countries will accept bad behaviour "on the frontier", which Gaza is to Israel. More or less. But if they start importing the concentration camp style tactics back into the Israeli core, or escalate them outside of them...then they'll be heading straight into Godwin territory.
But gee, didn't you know that according to conservatives and Libertarians, it's okay for Israel to do this as retaliation for the Holocaust. Or something. You know, gotta blow off all that steam, because the war of 1948 wasn't enough.
Meanwhile, one of my good friends, who happens to be Jewish, when hearing of this little nuance, simply went, "Oh cool, I'm just going to start killing a bunch of Lutherans in America. Why not? I gotta help the motherland meet a fucking quota, apparently."
Quote from: The Suu on July 18, 2014, 02:55:10 PM
But gee, didn't you know that according to conservatives and Libertarians, it's okay for Israel to do this as retaliation for the Holocaust. Or something. You know, gotta blow off all that steam, because the war of 1948 wasn't enough.
The only "conservatives" I know who support israel are those campy asshole, televangelised christians who take their cues from shitdicks like John Hagee...or AIPAC funded shitdick politicians.
Outside of that, on the ground, I don't know
anyone who supports israel as a state...
Quote from: von on July 19, 2014, 12:50:23 AM
Quote from: The Suu on July 18, 2014, 02:55:10 PM
But gee, didn't you know that according to conservatives and Libertarians, it's okay for Israel to do this as retaliation for the Holocaust. Or something. You know, gotta blow off all that steam, because the war of 1948 wasn't enough.
The only "conservatives" I know who support israel are those campy asshole, televangelised christians who take their cues from shitdicks like John Hagee...or AIPAC funded shitdick politicians.
Outside of that, on the ground, I don't know anyone who supports israel as a state...
Texas GOP.
Quote from: von on July 19, 2014, 12:50:23 AM
Quote from: The Suu on July 18, 2014, 02:55:10 PM
But gee, didn't you know that according to conservatives and Libertarians, it's okay for Israel to do this as retaliation for the Holocaust. Or something. You know, gotta blow off all that steam, because the war of 1948 wasn't enough.
The only "conservatives" I know who support israel are those campy asshole, televangelised christians who take their cues from shitdicks like John Hagee...or AIPAC funded shitdick politicians.
Outside of that, on the ground, I don't know anyone who supports israel as a state...
So, apart from the majority of conservatives, conservatives do not support Israel. Good to know.
I know way too many people who support Israel. I must be surrounded by evangelists.
My husband hasn't voiced any opinion, but he's really not allowed to either as long as he's active duty.
It's a popular position among Democrats, too.
The real question is why political support is so strong among the political classes, when only 51% of Americans feel more sympathy with Israelis than Palestinians. And that comes back to lobbying, pressure groups.
Don't know if daily mail is good source. If it's true. LOL FRANCE LOL.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2697194/Outrage-France-country-world-ban-pro-Palestine-demos.html
Escalation continues, toll up to around 600 Palestinians and 30 or so Israeli soldiers. Hamas claiming it's captured a soldier. Israel denies.
Edit - Apparently Israel now claims there's "one soldier missing". We're obviously talking about a different chap as the guy couldn't possibly be missing in Hamas custody. I suspect some people need a lesson on what "missing" means.
Propaganda to follow from everyone.
Quote from: Triggered word /b/ear on July 19, 2014, 05:47:57 PM
Don't know if daily mail is good source. If it's true. LOL FRANCE LOL.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2697194/Outrage-France-country-world-ban-pro-Palestine-demos.html
For reference, the paper and it's online version are possibly one of the worst sources in existence for numerous reasons. Here's a few:
- Obession with young female "celebrities". Search "all grown up" on there and then wonder why there's such a problem with paedophilia in the UK.
-Lazy journalism - Many stories are lifted pretty much verbatim from actual journalists.
-Evil proprietor - This applies to pretty much all UK tabloids and here's no different.
(bold mine, and at time of posting was on the wiki article, amusingly.)
Quotehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Harmsworth,_4th_Viscount_Rothermere
He has Non-Domicile tax status and owns his media businesses through a complex structure of offshore holdings and trusts which entail him paying almost no UK tax on his income, investments or wealth. He still benefits from the advantages of being British, what a cheat
Equally evil editor - Paul "Mugabe" Dacre. Jesus, how long have you got?
QuoteOn other occasions, the Mail under Dacre has been criticised for its racist attitude towards the stories it chooses to cover. Nick Davies recounts an anecdote from a former senior news reporter who en route to a murder scene of a woman and her two children 300 miles away was told to return because: "They're black [the victims]."[26] Davies comments: "Perhaps I have been unlucky, but I have never come across a reporter from the Daily Mail who did not have some similar story, of black people being excluded from the paper because of their colour."
Quote Conrad Black, a convicted fraudster and ex-proprietor of the Telegraph papers, considers him "a saturnine and capricious manipulator"
If you're not familiar with Conrad, have a quick look at his various antics and you'll piss yourself laughing too.
QuoteDacre has a reputation towards underlings of "verbal abuse [and] a drill sergeant's delight in public humiliation"[54] which also includes verbal abuse.[16] According to Nick Davies in his book Flat Earth News[55] his staff call his morning editorial meetings the "Vagina Monologues" because of his habit of calling everybody a "cunt".
I could go on, at length. There is very little good to say about the Daily Heil or anyone involved with it.
Ah, the horror at tweens in padded bikini tops article next to the sidebar of shame.
I have an extension that blocks the Mail Online for Chrome. It shows me tea and kittens instead.
http://www.teaandkittens.co.uk/
Barely news:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28437626
QuoteThe UN's top human rights official has condemned Israel's military actions in the Gaza Strip, saying that war crimes may have been committed.
Navi Pillay told an emergency debate at the UN Human Rights Council in Geneva that Israel's military offensive had not done enough to protect civilians.
QuoteReferring to a 16 July Israeli air strike that killed children playing on a beach in Gaza, Ms Pillay said "the disregard for international humanitarian law and for the right to life was shockingly evident".
She also condemned rocket attacks from Gaza into Israel.
"The principles of distinction and precaution are clearly not being observed during such indiscriminate attacks on civilian areas by Hamas and other armed Palestinian groups," she told the UN Human Rights Council.
Despite her condemnation of Hamas attacks on Israel, Ms Pillay clearly views Israel's actions in Gaza as disproportionate, our correspondent says.
Quote"There seems to be a strong possibility that international law has been violated, in a manner that could amount to war crimes," Ms Pillay said.
However Israel, which claims the UN Human Rights Council is biased, is unlikely to co-operate with any authorised UN investigation, the BBC's Imogen Foulkes in Geneva reports
Colour me amazed. No prizes for guessing what the results of this will be. Clue - More of the same from everyone.
I'd suggest it's not particularly good to be in the club that rejects the UN human rights council. Would you like to know more?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Human_Rights_Council
QuoteIt was ironic that Israel which claimed to be representing Jews everywhere was campaigning against a Jewish professor who had been nominated for the post of Special Rapporteur on the situation of human rights in the Occupied Palestinian Territory. The candidate was the author of 54 books on international law. Palestine doubted that those who had campaigned against him had read that many books. The candidate's nomination was a victory for good sense and human rights, as he was a highly qualified rapporteur.
In short, it puts you in the same league as Syria, Sudan and Ethiopia, world renowned for their equitable treatment of all citizens.
Israel's getting creepy (http://cannonfire.blogspot.com/2014/07/send-leftists-to-gas-chambers-please.html#rssowlmlink):
QuoteYossi* wants to make it very clear from the beginning of our discussion that I cannot use his real name. Rotem, his friend who is also translating, explains, "He is afraid. We're all afraid. The fascists are searching for our Facebook profiles, for any information about us on the internet. They are hunting us."
QuoteSend leftists to the gas chambers & please take them there in garbage trucks
QuoteWe may criticize the army and the defense establishment, but only from one direction: Why didn't they let the army win? Let it "do its job," beat the hell out of them, bombard them, crush them even more, conquer even more, cut off the electricity, tighten the siege and ramp up the killing, pain and devastation as much as possible; to exalt the might of the troops, to praise the daring of the pilots. To bring the Arabs back to the Stone Age and Gaza to the Middle Ages. That is allowed. The most moral thing on earth — as much as possible; doubting it is forbidden. One may also cry victim without limit. Ignorance will be crowned as a national goal.
Fucking hell. We were saying something about Godwin? Is it time?
Something something student has become the master something.
Spot the problems:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28476882
QuoteAt least two Palestinians have been killed and 200 wounded in the West Bank during protests against Israel's campaign in Gaza, officials say.
About 10,000 protesters marched from Ramallah towards East Jerusalem, where they were met by Israeli forces.
At least 15 people died and scores were injured when a UN-run shelter came under fire in Gaza on Thursday.
QuoteThe protest at Qalandia, outside Ramallah, saw Israeli border police use "riot control measures" and live fire. Protesters also used live ammunition, Israel said.
QuoteAt least 20 protesters were arrested after they threw rocks at police, Israeli police said.
It's dangerous to try and arrest someone with a gun, I guess.
QuotePalestinian families were in the school in Beit Hanoun, fleeing Israel's offensive against Hamas militants when they came under attack on Thursday.
It was the fourth time in as many days that a UN facility has been hit.
Correspondents say pools of blood lay on the ground in the courtyard of the school in Beit Hanoun, and there was a large scorch mark where it appeared a shell had hit.
QuoteChris Gunness, a spokesman for the UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine refugees (Unrwa), said the Israeli army had been formally given the co-ordinates of the shelter in Beit Hanoun.
According to the UN, more than 118,000 people are now sheltering in UN schools and people are running out of food.
(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/76483000/gif/_76483328_gaza_shejaiya_23_07_14_624map.gif)
Guess where the new wall is likely to be?
QuoteThe UN's Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (Ocha) says a 3km (1.9 mile) wide strip, encompassing 44% of Gaza, has been designated as a no-go zone by the Israeli military.
I'm calling Israeli settlers living on the land in question within 5 years. Probably sooner as it gives further justification for military actions/reprisals.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28920361
QuoteIran says it has shot down an Israeli drone near the Natanz nuclear enrichment site.
The Revolutionary Guards said they fired the missile as the stealth drone approached the area, 300km (185 miles) south of the capital Tehran.
The statement did not say when the drone was brought down, nor how the Guards knew it was Israeli.
Well given that Drones are one of Israels key exports, it's fairly safe to assume most drones are Israeli, in a sense. Owned and operated by Israel? Well, I'd like to think they aren't that stupid and all the attention is on the Gaza situation. I'd like to think that.
QuoteThe statement from the Revolutionary Guards said the drone was on course to fly over the nuclear facility at Natanz.
If so, the fact that the drone managed to get so close raises questions about Iran's detection capabilities, says BBC Persian's Rana Rahimpour
I would take this to imply that this is either not the first such mission, just the first unsuccessful one. The other immediate alternative is that Iran's detection systems are either very good (waited until it's irrefutably in your territory) or very bad (no warning until way inside your borders).
There's more to come from this and the spin from both sides should be amusing.
A final alternate would be that Iran actually got hit by the drone but used it's fully functional time machine to change events.
Another truce declared, apparently a long term one.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28939350
QuoteAt least 2,140 people, most of them civilians, have been killed in Gaza, according to the Palestinian health ministry.
The Israeli authorities say 64 Israeli soldiers have been killed, along with five Israeli civilians and a Thai national.
Here's hoping it lasts till the weekend, at least. Hells, over 6 hours or so would be a substantial improvement.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29611875
QuoteIsrael has warned against sending a "troubling message", after UK MPs voted to recognise Palestinian statehood.
The House of Commons backed a motion by 274 votes to 12, although the decision will not decide government policy.
But Israel's government said the vote could undermine the chances of peace by letting Palestinian leaders think they could evade the "tough choices" needed.
Israel unhappy about a decision that shows Israel in negative light. Update on Pope's religion at 11.
QuoteConservative and Liberal Democrat ministers abstained, which is convention on motions proposed by backbench MPs. This is despite recognition of Palestinian statehood being a policy held by the Lib Dems.
Lib-dems ensuring brutal election results for themselves, again.
QuoteMr Duncan, who left the government in last summer's reshuffle, told BBC Radio 4's The World at One: "Having illegal settlements all the time is simply not acceptable and anyone who supports them, I consider to be an extremist."
He said "the starting point in principle is that these settlements are illegal", adding that the UK government "must be prepared to state this principle more strongly".
Daniel Taub, the Israeli ambassador to the UK, said there was "a lot of frustration" there had not been more progress in the peace process.
But he said settlements had never been the barrier to reaching agreement.
"We have a population where there is natural growth," he said, adding: "Why is it out of the question that in a future Palestinian state, that Jews should not be able to live there side-by-side with their Palestinian neighbours?"
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
Oh my. That's stunning. Why is it out of the question indeed? Who wouldn't want to live next to religious zealots that are living on land that used to be your farm? Only terrorists would object to such a thing.
I sincerely hope someone starts beating this fucker with "right of return".
Anyway, no real progress beyond a token gesture, but at least there's a gesture. It's been a long while since there was more than that.
The latest on the 2010 Flotilla killings:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-29934002
QuoteThe International Criminal Court's chief prosecutor says she will not take action over Israel's deadly commando raid on a Gaza-bound flotilla in 2010.
Fatou Bensouda said this was despite a "reasonable basis to believe that war crimes... were committed on one of the vessels, the Mavi Marmara".
But she said the ICC had to prioritise war crimes committed on a large scale.
Nine Turkish activists were killed on the ship as it attempted to breach a blockade of the Palestinian territory.
In total there were six ships in the flotilla that was boarded in international waters, about 130km (80 miles) from the Israeli coast on 31 May 2010.
QuoteMs Bensouda said she did not want to minimise "the impact of the alleged crimes on the victims and their families" but she had to be guided by the Rome Statue, the founding treaty of the ICC.
"I have concluded that the potential case(s) likely arising from an investigation into this incident would not be of 'sufficient gravity' to justify further action by the ICC," she said in a statement.
The statement:
http://www.icc-cpi.int/en_menus/icc/press%20and%20media/press%20releases/Pages/otp-statement-06-11-2014.aspx
That section above, again, in full:
QuoteWithout in any way minimizing the impact of the alleged crimes on the victims and their families, I have to be guided by the Rome Statute, in accordance with which, the ICC shall prioritize war crimes committed on a large scale or pursuant to a plan or policy.
How in the living fuck is this not exactly this to a fucking T. Israel has clearly pursued plans and policies to this end for decades. This isn't new. Gaza and the west bank didn't appear from fucking nowhere in 2009.
Quote(Bullshit and waffle, don't blame us)..... The Office of the Prosecutor of the ICC conducts independent and impartial investigations and prosecution of the crimes of genocide, crimes against humanity and war crimes. The Office of the Prosecutor is currently conducting eight investigations: Uganda; Democratic Republic of the Congo; Darfur, Sudan; Central African Republic; Kenya; Libya; Côte d'Ivoire and Mali. The Office is also conducting preliminary examinations relating to the situations in Afghanistan, Colombia, Georgia, Guinea, Honduras, Iraq, Nigeria and Ukraine.
And there you get the real reason, I'd guess. Shoving Israel into the list with this illustrious company would cause all manner of people to shit themselves blind. You couldn't possibly include a "Westernised democracy" in such a list. It's also quite amusing to note that many of these states share more than a few parallels with Israel too, mainly in their treatment of minority groups.
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/middle-east/15922-rabbis-plan-to-build-temple-on-al-aqsa-ruins
QuoteIn the clearest indication of the growing dangers threatening Al-Aqsa Mosque, in an opinion piece published on Saturday, Haaretz discussed a group of rabbis who met to discuss the scheme for the establishment of the Third Temple on the ruins of the mosque. The newspaper published a photograph of a number of rabbis and engineers studying a map of Al-Aqsa Mosque.
In a piece written by Professor Ronnie Ellenblum entitled "Bells are ringing for the ultra-Orthodox and Secular" [hebrew], the paper discussed the future of Al-Aqsa Mosque which Jews refer to as the Temple Mount.
Although the paper did not identify the rabbis who appeared in the picture, one of them has been identified as Rabbi Yisrael Ariel, president of the Temple Institute, a religious authority that is considered the most enthusiastic about destroying Al-Aqsa Mosque and establishing a temple on its ruins.
The research also involved Rabbi Yehuda Etzion, who was responsible for implementing the Hebron University massacre which left 15 students dead or wounded, and was also responsible for implementing three assassination attempts against elected mayors in the West Bank, one of which injured the then Mayor of Nablus Bassam Shakaa, leaving him permanently disabled.
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu had pledged to the king of Jordan not to take any steps that would change the status quo at Al-Aqsa Mosque.
Miri Regev, MK for the Likud party led by Netanyahu, announced that she will not allow the continuation of the status quo Al-Aqsa, stressing that the next Knesset will issue a number of laws that will promote Jewish sovereignty over it.
Israeli Channel 10 quoted Regev saying on Thursday that the consecration of Jewish sovereignty in Al-Aqsa Mosque is the most important embodiment of the political, religious and cultural sovereignty of "the Jewish people on their land".
The channel noted that this view is supported by the ministers of economy and housing, Naftali Bennett and Uri Ariel, Chairman of the Foreign Affairs and Defence Committee Ze'ev Elkin, the head of the coalition bloc in parliament, Danny Levin.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/let-the-people-of-israel-enter-the-gates-and-kill-arabs-demonstrators-chant-as-tensions-rise-in-a6679906.html
QuoteA group of protesters reportedly screamed "let the people of Israel enter the gates and kill Arabs" during a heated demonstration on Saturday night in Jerusalem after violence erupted ahead of a Jewish holiday.
Youths involved in the demonstration, which started at Zion Square, allegedly massed around Damascus Gate and demanded an Israeli police barricade allow them through to the Old Town and Muslim district.
"Let the people of Israel enter the gates and kill Arabs," Haaretz reported one of the people shouted at officers during the stand-off.
The newspaper claims the "gangs of youths ran amok looking for Arab victims," massing around Zion Square where they confronted a dialogue group, including a Palestinian woman.
UNGH
Can't tell whether fact or satire, because it's completely believable.
Haaretz, the Israeli daily, also reported on it. They also published conversations from some of the women in the crowd, who were saying all the Arabs needed to be removed from the army - Christian, Muslim, whoever.
Quote from: Cain on October 07, 2015, 10:50:45 AM
Haaretz, the Israeli daily, also reported on it. They also published conversations from some of the women in the crowd, who were saying all the Arabs needed to be removed from the army - Christian, Muslim, whoever.
Fucking hell.
There's been tons of other shit, but this is particularly classy:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/ramadan-2016-israel-water-west-bank-cuts-off-a7082826.html
QuoteIsrael has cut off the water supply to large areas of the West Bank, Palestinian authorities have claimed.
Tens of thousands of Palestinians have reportedly been left without access to safe drinking water during the Islamic holy month of Ramadan, a period of fasting, at a time when temperatures can exceed 35C.
The northern city of Jenin, which has a population of more than 40,000, said its water supplies had been cut in half by Mekorot, Israel's national water company. Jenin is home to a refugee camp, established in 1953, which contains 16,000 registered refugees.
QuoteAlmost 200,000 Palestinians in the West Bank do not have access to running water, and require permission before collecting it themselves, according to a report by Amnesty International.
I'm sure there will be no blowback over this whatsoever. People easily forget when you've tried to dehydrate them to death so the neighbours can fill their pools.
On the other hand, when the Palestinian groups are reduced to having to knife people on the streets, it does suggest they're not exactly the terrorist threat they were a decade ago. Israel may simply not care.