CEO follows Ayn Rand's advice, mysteriously fails as businessman

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

When you say, "Human beings are hadwired for X." where does that assumption come from?

Have we opened and examined and gained a comprehensive understanding of the human brain on ever continent, from every subculture and mapped it out, and said, "By Jove, they are all the same!"

No. We haven't. And even if there were such a program, our understanding of how the brain's architecture tanslates into activity is ham-fisted at best. Shit, almost everybody still uses the term "left-brained" and "right-brained" which are stupidly innaccruate.

We, you, gain an understanding of how the brain is "hardwired", also a ham-fisted approach to how the brain functions, is based on this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimatum_game

Which has only been recently introduced to indiginous people of cultures, and other brown people far removed from the one we share.

The notion that zerosum is the default state of ALL human desire is fallacious and perpetuates much of he fuckery found in the financial fuckery thread.

Don't you suppose bankers have a strong interest in convicing you the ENTIRE WORLD is just like them?

You talk about cellular processes. Yes, conflict is important to the growth of life, but so is diversity. It takes all sorts to make a world.

Alty wins thread.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

BUT MR. ALTY, IF THERE IS POTENTIAL FOR ME TO RELY ON OTHER HUMANS, HOW CAN I JUSTIFY THE RUGGED INDIVIDUALISM I HAVE DEVELOPED TO COPE WITH THE PERCEIVED SELFISHNESS OF MAN?

Plus a kitten for Paes.

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

There's a WHOLE THREAD about it somewhere around here.

This one: http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php/topic,36025.0.html

I remember because I bookmarked that Pacific Standard website.

[Salty]

Dawww, kitten mittens!

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

There's a WHOLE THREAD about it somewhere around here.

This one: http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php/topic,36025.0.html

I remember because I bookmarked that Pacific Standard website.

THANKS NET!

[Reginald Ret]

Hang on, i said:

People seem hardwired for zero-sum games.

And that is what we were talking about. Seem =/= Are.

Anyway, it was a stupid way of putting it, so i'm not sure why I am posting this.
How about "Many people exhibit behaviour that is optimised for zero-sum games and this causes several problems."?

[P3nT4gR4m]

Hang on, i said:

People seem hardwired for zero-sum games.

And that is what we were talking about. Seem =/= Are.

Anyway, it was a stupid way of putting it, so i'm not sure why I am posting this.
How about "Many people exhibit behaviour that is optimised for zero-sum games and this causes several problems."?

What I read in the first place but, y'know, it's much easier to tell someone they're wrongwrongWRONG than actually think about what someone is trying to communicate in the first place. Especially if your primary objective is the accusation of wrongness.

[LMNO]

*ETA* Okay, I think I might have it - "hardwired" not a word I would have initially chosen. "programmed" would be more my take. We learn different logic systems and one of them is zero sum. Once we have internalised this, it's in there and it can be recalled at any time. Quite often, in the real world, we can see this game being played out.

I think if we combine this with Alty and Nigel's point about zero sum being a cultural thing, and is not immediately present in non-Western* cultures, it looks like we're all aiming in the same general direction.  Nigel/Alty are correct that it is not a biological drive, P3nt is right that it is pretty well entrenched in the culture we're currently living in.










*Used as a really, really lazy stand in for the exact dominant culture we're discussing

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I addressed the statement twice. The conversation about how people are "hardwired" was proceeding apace, so I repeated myself in stronger terms, saying that sure, Regret hit the nail on the head, except that it was wrong. Nobody wants to get called out for talking out of their asses, but it happens sometimes, just move the fuck on. The idea that people are hardwired for zero-sum games is not substantiated by anything other than Western-centric assumptions and projection, and there is ample evidence against it. Now, do you want to continue making this about "Nigel wasn't nice enough when she told me my bright idea was wrong", or do you want to talk about something productive and interesting?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

For the record, P3nt, I didn't even bother going into detail about why what you said about DNA and single-celled organisms is stupid, but if you're really intent on flaring butthurt and how all Mean Mister Nigel wants to do is tell people they're wrong, I could.

[LMNO]

That wasn't where I was going, tbh.  I just thought you both made good points, and clarified them, and I wanted to say so.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

That wasn't where I was going, tbh.  I just thought you both made good points, and clarified them, and I wanted to say so.

Sorry, I was responding to P3nt's post about how I was so focused on making his anus inflamed.

[LMNO]

Heh.  Ok, I think we got that sorted out.

Anyway.

So if the entrenched culture in which I live is running game rules based on Zero Sum, how the heck can it be changed?  From a functional perspective, what's to be done?

I suppose it's like anything else, act local; if you can influence the people around you (your "tribe", or that trope about teh "50 people that make up your personal communuity") to be less dickish, at least part of your reality will be improved.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Heh.  Ok, I think we got that sorted out.

Anyway.

So if the entrenched culture in which I live is running game rules based on Zero Sum, how the heck can it be changed?  From a functional perspective, what's to be done?

I suppose it's like anything else, act local; if you can influence the people around you (your "tribe", or that trope about teh "50 people that make up your personal communuity") to be less dickish, at least part of your reality will be improved.

Well, a starting point for most change is simply challenging the assumption that the status-quo reflects an inborn and fundamental law of human nature.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

For example, women's place in the home, homosexuals in society, interracial marriage, the inferiority of people of color. Once the idea started getting around that maybe our social assumptions about how "natural" any of these things were might be foundless, things started shifting pretty rapidly.