No war with Iran? LETS FIGHT CHINA

[Cain]

I'm only guessing, but I strongly suspect that was the guiding conviction which led to the USAF flying two B-52s through the new Chinese air defence zone over Senkaku airspace.

What the US media doesn't seem keen to tell anyone is that the new ADIZ would, if followed properly, probably help avert a conflict.  It's not a claim of sovereignty, or of this now being exclusively Chinese airspace.  What it means is that the Chinese government would like to know what planes are flying in the area, because that way, it wont scramble all fighters and cause an international incident over a sensitive region because of, say, a military training exercise.

Like the one which allegedly occured yesterday.

Yes, of course it's also designed to tweak the nose of the Japanese, somewhat.  Hell, the Chinese ADIZ directly mirrors the Japanese ADIZ in that area.  And the Chinese "restrictions" in that zone are far less onerous than for the America ADIZ, for example - though of course the USA has the advantage of no contested territory on its borders.

Japan is also refusing to recognize the ADIZ, thus negating the possibility that the above was a genuine mistake.  Abe's a firebrand, but he knows when to talk with the US.  And that John Kerry lined right up to declare how "deeply concerned" he was at this means there is coordination and signalling between the two.

Here's the thing - when the US decides to initiate AirSeaBattle against China, it wont tell them.  So seeing unknown warplanes with no transponders on, not responding to Chinese air traffic controllers (military or otherwise), looks like the opening strike of a war.  That's how serious this is.

[Cain]

The Pentagon has made a comment:

US Colonel Steve Warren at the Pentagon said Washington had "conducted operations in the area of the Senkakus". "We have continued to follow our normal procedures, which include not filing flight plans, not radioing ahead and not registering our frequencies," he said. There had been no response from China, he added.

No, and I wouldn't bet on one.  China won't take revenge now.  But it will remember that the US sent two strategic, nuclear capable bombers in a deliberate attempt to humiliate and provoke them.

And we know how much value Asian societies put on face.

[Faust]

China would have been completely justified to shoot those two planes down.

Why the fuck are the US squaring up to china? China is fighting economic warfare (so far), does the US think it's losing?

[Nephew Twiddleton]

We've been convincing ourselves that China is our secret enemy for so long that we actually believe it.

This is interesting. Thanks, Cain.

[Cain]

China would have been completely justified to shoot those two planes down.

Why the fuck are the US squaring up to china? China is fighting economic warfare (so far), does the US think it's losing?

Obama's "Return to the Pacific" doctrine all but labels China as America's primary adversary. 

I'd like to know what strategic or diplomatic rationale was given for this.  Because it won't make China back down.  It wont especially impress Japan or South Korea, either. And it reinforces the global opinion of the US as a tactless bully whose preferred method of diplomatic exchange is with cruise missiles.

Which may well be exactly what is happening here.

[LMNO]

Here's the thing - when the US decides to initiate AirSeaBattle against China, it wont tell them.  So seeing unknown warplanes with no transponders on, not responding to Chinese air traffic controllers (military or otherwise), looks like the opening strike of a war.  That's how serious this is.

And my estimate of humanity in general drops another peg.

[von]

>And we know how much value Asian societies put on face.

This seems flawed. Sure, there is "face" at stake, but in the all-in-all, there is also, oh, I dunno, their whole fucking economy.

wonder what percent of their manufacturing sector would collapse if we decided to say fuck it and engage a full embargo on them tomorrow. China would go from a "almost relevant" to "shit tier" nation over night...

[Junkenstein]

>And we know how much value Asian societies put on face.

This seems flawed. Sure, there is "face" at stake, but in the all-in-all, there is also, oh, I dunno, their whole fucking economy.

wonder what percent of their manufacturing sector would collapse if we decided to say fuck it and engage a full embargo on them tomorrow. China would go from a "almost relevant" to "shit tier" nation over night...

Are you actually serious here? What makes you think that the USA wouldn't end up in a way worse position? For a start, China would call in ALL THE DEBT. How do you think that will end?

[Auscultare of the Fatigue]

>And we know how much value Asian societies put on face.

This seems flawed. Sure, there is "face" at stake, but in the all-in-all, there is also, oh, I dunno, their whole fucking economy.

wonder what percent of their manufacturing sector would collapse if we decided to say fuck it and engage a full embargo on them tomorrow. China would go from a "almost relevant" to "shit tier" nation over night...

Are you actually serious here? What makes you think that the USA wouldn't end up in a way worse position? For a start, China would call in ALL THE DEBT. How do you think that will end?

China wouldn't be allowed to call in the debt. One main reason our debt is so large right now is because so many countries wouldn't think twice about lending to us for the simple fact that we always pay our debts back, with interest, on time.

Right now the U.S. is, for lack of a better term, 'flexing'. They are kind of just poking at China's chest to see if they'll poke back or at the very least say something provocative. I highly doubt that this is an atmosphere for a World War III, although this may be a precursor or even catalyst to that.

[Q. G. Pennyworth]

Economic warfare with China would be devastating for BOTH sides. We'd have two shit-tier nuclear nations overnight. Which, you know, bodes really well for world peace and all.

[LMNO]

Um... I'm gonna stick with Cain as my informed IR spag of choice, if you don't mind.

You sound insane.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Wow.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

>And we know how much value Asian societies put on face.

This seems flawed. Sure, there is "face" at stake, but in the all-in-all, there is also, oh, I dunno, their whole fucking economy.

wonder what percent of their manufacturing sector would collapse if we decided to say fuck it and engage a full embargo on them tomorrow. China would go from a "almost relevant" to "shit tier" nation over night...

Are you actually serious here? What makes you think that the USA wouldn't end up in a way worse position? For a start, China would call in ALL THE DEBT. How do you think that will end?

In the destruction of our currency, a spiraling trade war by proxy (since there wouldn't be any direct trade), and the loss of international banking capability.  Then the lights start to go out.  They come back on in 1100 years, and everyone forgets everything again.  Rinse, repeat.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

China wouldn't be allowed to call in the debt. One main reason our debt is so large right now is because so many countries wouldn't think twice about lending to us for the simple fact that we always pay our debts back, with interest, on time.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Lol embargo. Because china is an island nation with only one trading partner