The Hipster is dead... long live the Hipster!

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

http://www.dangerousminds.net/comments/so_that_makes_you_a_square_in_defence_of_the_hipster/

We are entering an era where "way of life" music genres (genres which stand oppositional to other genres) are rapidly losing their hold over consumers' aesthetic choices. A love of heavy metal does not now preclude a love of gay disco, just as a love of jazz doesn't preclude a love of rock anymore. However, to an older generation to whom these walls still stand, it can seem as though the only explanation for the liking of oppositional genres is "irony", when this is not the case.

[AFK]

I don't know that I agree with the premise of that quote.  Speaking as a metal-head, I knew and know many other metal heads who had no issues talking about how they were into other musical genres.  Jazz and classical in particular, especially given the influence both of those genres have had on heavy metal.  I mean certainly metal heads are very proud to be metal heads, and will probably wear that more on their sleeve compared to other genres, but I think that has more to do with the fact that metal has largely been a somewhat disrespected genre in the music community. 

[Prince Glittersnatch III]

I think this is a good thing.

Music should always be first and foremost about the fucking music.
"Lifestyle music" or music that appeals to a certain subculture always suffers. Not only that but its given us thousands of shitty screamo garage bands that dont even bother to tune their guitars and just crank up the distortion instead.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

You guys should read the article... I just pulled one interesting quote, but it's not really the whole point, although it does make an interesting observation with, I think, a fair amount of validity.

[Cardinal Pizza Deliverance.]

I think this is a good thing.

Music should always be first and foremost about the fucking music.
"Lifestyle music" or music that appeals to a certain subculture always suffers. Not only that but its given us thousands of shitty screamo garage bands that dont even bother to tune their guitars and just crank up the distortion instead.

And it has given us Wizard Rock.      

[Jasper]

Skimmed it, and I think I generally agree.  I feel that hipster is used almost like chav, generally applied to those damned young people and their terrible, unclassy values.

[Cardinal Pizza Deliverance.]

This is an age of media saturation and constant meme-bombardment. Leaving aside the complicated relationship consumers now have to products and entertainment (ie it's not as simple as "love" and "hate" anymore), file sharing and digital distribution have expanded our potential choices to the state where there is no such thing as "rare". All music of all types is at the consumer's fingertips, and you don't have to go through cultural initiations to prove your loyalty to any particular genre. But does this mean that a teenager downloading the entire Crass back catalog tomorrow will not feel the same impact of the music as the person who bought the 7" back in the day? Or that the TOOL fan downloading that irresistible Usher song somehow can't really like TOOL?

I bolded the parts I thought were relevant. If what he's saying is correct then I would have been considered a hipster because I like all music - including rap and country. I don't particularly care for the bubble-gum-pop of boy bands or singers like Brittany Spears but I've appreciated some of the stuff in that sub-genre. Hmmm.

In effect what we are seeing is a nation of cultural gatekeepers cottoning on to the fact that the fences they erected were pulled down years ago. They use the tools at their disposal, mostly articles in the mainstream media, to decry the younger generations lack of interest in their well established modes of cool. Meanwhile the younger generation are out defining what is cool for themselves, which inevitably will clash with what older writers prescribe. Perhaps it's just a cyclical process - the olds grumble that their yardsticks of cool aren't adopted by the youngs, while the youngs reject the ideas of the olds and create their own cool. The difference here though is that the mainstream commentators have huge access to means of propagating their ideas in the media, and they are hella resistant to letting anyone else take their coveted roles. And even, it seems, promoting the positive sides of youth culture. But the fact remains, they're losing their edge.

Man, this is a problem not just among generations, but between cliques and peer groups and people within the peer groups and everything. We're tearing down localized, conventional cliques and reestablishing them as more specialized and farther-flung clusters of people online.

It isn't jocks versus geeks in high school. It's Hikers Who Like Starbucks and Wear Boxers and Listen To Glenn Beck versus Cyclists Who Like Teavana While Wearing Speedos and Listening To Jon Stewart duking it out on internet.

But yeah. I agree with most of that. Though I think basing whether or not someone is cool on their clothes or music tastes is stupid.

It's all about whether or not they drink Pepsi.

[BabylonHoruv]

We've had Gay Heavy Metal Disco for a while now  (Lords of Acid, My life with the Thrill Kill Kult)  I know that's not the word for the genre that those bands fit into, but I think that description fits them pretty well  And they've been around since at least the early 90's (that being when I started listening to them)

[Kai]

Thanks for posting this, Nigel. I really appreciate the tone and message of the article. Remember when we were going around calling ourselves hipsters in a non-ironic fashion? This reminds me of that.

I think it would be good to remove the word "hipster" from my language diet and bury it in a shallow grave. If people are listening to music or wearing clothing they don't actually enjoy listening to or wearing just to fit in with a group, there's already a word for that, poseur. In which case it's just sad that they would sacrifice their self-authenticity to fit in.

There /is/ the issue of being fashion blind to the point where your color combinations and other clothing choices are painful. But that's an entirely different issue, and is often related to actual color blindness.

For further reading, reference:

http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=28658.0

http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=26830.0

and

http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=24524.0

[Laughin Jude]

I read that article and the Wikipedia article and I'm still not sure what a hipster is; as far as I can tell it's just a pejorative term for "young person who doesn't fit into our slots," right? Or maybe "young person who fits into a slot I don't approve of." It's hard to say.

Part of the problem is that people using the term seem to believe most pop culture has this fabled "authenticity" that can be subverted to begin with... and as someone who's generally sitting on the outside looking in, I'm pretty comfortable saying it doesn't; when you get down to it, even "alternative" musical scenes (or whatever the term is nowadays) exist primarily to sell you t-shirts and beer, and if you're really successful, someday your music might be used to sell prescription drugs and car insurance.

[BabylonHoruv]

I read that article and the Wikipedia article and I'm still not sure what a hipster is; as far as I can tell it's just a pejorative term for "young person who doesn't fit into our slots," right? Or maybe "young person who fits into a slot I don't approve of." It's hard to say.

Part of the problem is that people using the term seem to believe most pop culture has this fabled "authenticity" that can be subverted to begin with... and as someone who's generally sitting on the outside looking in, I'm pretty comfortable saying it doesn't; when you get down to it, even "alternative" musical scenes (or whatever the term is nowadays) exist primarily to sell you t-shirts and beer, and if you're really successful, someday your music might be used to sell prescription drugs and car insurance.

It's been discussed at length in the threads posted right before your post.

If you look in them you'll see we've got the common usage of Hipster nailed down pretty well.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I read that article and the Wikipedia article and I'm still not sure what a hipster is; as far as I can tell it's just a pejorative term for "young person who doesn't fit into our slots," right? Or maybe "young person who fits into a slot I don't approve of." It's hard to say.

Part of the problem is that people using the term seem to believe most pop culture has this fabled "authenticity" that can be subverted to begin with... and as someone who's generally sitting on the outside looking in, I'm pretty comfortable saying it doesn't; when you get down to it, even "alternative" musical scenes (or whatever the term is nowadays) exist primarily to sell you t-shirts and beer, and if you're really successful, someday your music might be used to sell prescription drugs and car insurance.

THIS THIS THIS

And what Kai and Sigmatic said.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Basically, at this point the word "hipster" is pretty much useful only for identifying the people who are using it as a pejorative in order to establish their superiority.

[Don Coyote]

Basically, at this point the word "hipster" is pretty much useful only for identifying the people who are using it as a pejorative in order to establish their superiority.

Bunch of fucking hipsters.

[Prince Glittersnatch III]

I read that article and the Wikipedia article and I'm still not sure what a hipster is; as far as I can tell it's just a pejorative term for "young person who doesn't fit into our slots," right? Or maybe "young person who fits into a slot I don't approve of." It's hard to say.

Hipster is a genuine subculture/movement. The problem is that people have adopted it as a sort of slur to describe anyone/anything that they dont like.(Hurr durr X Band is so fucking hipster) So its basically lost all meaning, but trust me hipsters are a very real thing. And I hate them, oh dear lord do I hate them...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9lmvX00TLY

^The mating ritual of the hipsters.