Anybody know something about OBE / Astral yadda yadda?

[Salty]

I found this how to book on astral projection from the 60's once,

Basically the instructions were as follows:

1. Place markers (scent, symbol, whatever) along your home at close interval. Bedroom door, hallway wall, staircase, kitchen, front door.
2. Spend every night before sleeping NOT fucking a sock, but instead trying to picture yourself rising from your body and hovering from marker to marker. The more you do it, the easier it becomes and then you don't need the marker.

Which is to say it seemed like a way to create a mental experience like unto lucid dreaming.

The more interesting part of the book was that it indicated these things were products of countless years of Holy Work by occultists who kept the details secret, and thus shrouded in mystery, she in fact it's not all that ,mystical, once the secrecy is removed,

[tyrannosaurus vex]

This article is, regardless of what the Unwelcome Wagon™ has to say about it, really interesting. Especially the possibilities of associating consciousness with an external body. I can imagine that this has all kinds of important implications for brain and consciousness sciences. Think of everything this could lead into -- not just self-image or other perceptual disorders. We could eventually solve all kinds of problems like people feeling useless or substandard just because parts of their bodies don't work, or projecting consciousness into environments that are too inhospitable for human bodies. Far from belonging in the "pool on the roof" this probably deserves its own thread in Techmology & Scientism.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I found this how to book on astral projection from the 60's once,

Basically the instructions were as follows:

1. Place markers (scent, symbol, whatever) along your home at close interval. Bedroom door, hallway wall, staircase, kitchen, front door.
2. Spend every night before sleeping NOT fucking a sock, but instead trying to picture yourself rising from your body and hovering from marker to marker. The more you do it, the easier it becomes and then you don't need the marker.

Which is to say it seemed like a way to create a mental experience like unto lucid dreaming.

The more interesting part of the book was that it indicated these things were products of countless years of Holy Work by occultists who kept the details secret, and thus shrouded in mystery, she in fact it's not all that ,mystical, once the secrecy is removed,

Funnier thing is listening to tards going on about Tulpas.  According to Buddhist monks, it takes a lifetime of training to generate a Tulpa.  Or 30 minutes on a Pagan forum, whichever comes first.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

You know, I'm just going to bugger off an be a Bad Person™ in another thread.

TGRR,
Has tragically, once again, failed to meet the expectations of others, and is really fucking broken up about it.

[Cramulus]

According to Buddhist monks, it takes a lifetime of training to generate a Tulpa.  Or 30 minutes on a Pagan forum, whichever comes first.

Well, pagan forumites tend to be very efficient, you know. Really masters of their domain.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

You know, I'm just going to bugger off an be a Bad Person™ in another thread.

TGRR,
Has tragically, once again, failed to meet the expectations of others, and is really fucking broken up about it.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

You know, I'm just going to bugger off an be a Bad Person™ in another thread.

TGRR,
Has tragically, once again, failed to meet the expectations of others, and is really fucking broken up about it.

Well, you know.  Clown comes along, dresses a perfectly good article up in ASSTRAL PROJECTIONZ, and I'm gonna do my thing, right?  It's sort of like using one of those laser pointer things around a cat.

I knew I was gonna catch shit about it from the Hall Monitors™, but I did it anyway.  I'm a criminal.

[Triple Zero]

What I think is interesting, is the fact that OBE's can be triggered as easily as that. Which would go a long way in actually debunking the tripping hippies that try to argue that their consciousness actually WAS outside of their body (ok it would go a short way, because hippies. but still).

Another thing I think is interesting is because you can measure heart rate with mobile phone apps (something about the camera being able to pick up blood flow in certain circumstances--easiest way is bright LED+finger+camera, in that order behind eachother), so you could bring this to people.

Also helping people with anorexia or other types of body dysmorphia sounds like an AWESOME progression, I've known some peeps that used to suffer from anorexia (fortunately they are okay now), and it is terrible.

---

FWIW, I can totally see how link + no commentary + "astral" in the title gets PDs neck hairs to rise. Hell, what Roger said, it *does* have all the qualities of a trolling thread. And we do actually get trolls here that would do that shit. In this case, however, I can tell you, Ixxie's no troll. A weirdo, sure. But a fucking cool weirdo, I met him IRL (as did Cram, Regret and El Sjaako). also he ate Regret's face, what is not to like? He might require a dose of the PD-style Discordia, but he's good people so please give it to him slowly

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I'm sure he's a nice guy.  Never doubted it for a moment.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

also he ate Regret's face, what is not to like?

I approve.

He might require a dose of the PD-style Discordia, but he's good people so please give it to him slowly

Ruins the effect.  It's like being run over by a steamroller.  Slowly is WORSE.

[Cramulus]

He might require a dose of the PD-style Discordia, but he's good people so please give it to him slowly

Ruins the effect.  It's like being run over by a steamroller.  Slowly is WORSE.

[Ixxie]

Indeed - the applications are curious, and I do think I recall some paper about using such techniques to help treat some mental disorders. Further more - there seems to be a whole interdisciplinary research program of exploring a variety of adaptive explanations to mystical techniques. Like evidence of the potency of Mindfulness, Meditation and certain Drugs in integrating cognitive systems I and II for example. This is a potential gold mine - thousands of generations of sociocultural evolution converges with the amalgamations of Scientific and Mystical traditions interacting. As a scientist I feel both can benefit each other, and have many colleagues who share the sentiment.

As for TGRR - he seems to suffer from post trollmatic stress disorder and cockholm syndrome...... I am always grateful for more data on the rueful state of human culture and intelligence. Luckily I am wearing my Anti-Troll Spray™ today! 

I figure the put on the Apple board because while this cites a scientific paper, its discusses an innovation in a technique that was traditionally used in mystical traditions and is thousands of years old. Admittedly I could have been more elaborate in explaining my position, but really I cannot understand how Discordians could be so seemingly afraid of a word - which might have been abused by a number of idiots - but still has such wonderful poetic and historical meaning that its a shame to drop it from our vocabulary just because 'its unscientific'. If we let stupidity on the part of others restrict on semantics we might as well opt to switching to klingon (although even this choice is questionable). I don't have to urge to create a strict conceptual separation between the rigor of science and the elegance of mystical metaphor - I can bridge both with out a problem (cf. the Non-Dualism of Disciplinary Distinction).

Yeah - I have a little hippie blood in me - and I am proud of it. The movement has its nativity - but has done much more for society than you seem to give credit, and certainly shares a phylogeny with PD. The benefit of time and the freedom sociocultural recombination would permit the open minded skeptic to reap all the benefits of the good traits while suspending judgement on other concepts and methods that don't seem useful. I am not naive about such concepts but experience has thought me never to just the conceptual book by its cover. Sure - many ideas in this realm are naive and stupid. Others are ancient sociocultural adaptations in the form of heuristics and methods which have great value. Yeah Intelligence is multi-dimensional and hard to measure or compare - but in my experience the integration of mystical and scientific methodology has been incredibly powerful when done with care and not taken too seriously (i.e. with the pragmatic spirit of Techne and not the more Platonic Episteme).

In the spirit of Hagbard's heuristic of 'True communication is only possible between Equals', would it not be nice to have the null-hypothesis in the average social encounter be intelligence? Could we not be Competent until proven Idiotic? Could we not rule out differing semantics and syntax as a cause for disagreement before assuming a conceptual conflict? Probably not, on the internet. I have my ideas about why (what an ironic paradox that what should have been our most powerful tool became our greatest weakness....)

       

[Salty]

 

[Ixxie]

Point taken about putting the right post on the right board. I will keep an eye out for that in the future. 

[Cramulus]

Ixxie, just don't say I didn't warn you