Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Aneristic Illusions => Topic started by: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on November 16, 2016, 10:23:36 PM

Title: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on November 16, 2016, 10:23:36 PM
As someone who clearly remembers the inane fearmongering that was rampant among demonstrators just before Obama took office, I can absolutely say that the more important things to acknowledge are those which both groups have in common, rather than focusing on the subtle, irrelevant differences.

Every time we have a presidential election, these people come out in a full force of dehumanizing hypocrisy, carrying the message that if democracy isn't on their side this particular time, then it must be broken and the rules no longer apply to them. Then the people towards the middle either rationalize their legitimacy if they're on the same team or lambast the entire ideology if they aren't.

I'm fucking tired of it. Protestors are assholes.

Not to deny that sometimes it takes an asshole to get things done (Trump voters obviously think so), but can we stop pretending that these people are an exception to the rules just because we happen to support the same party? Can we at least just admit that they're being assholes?

Many of them didn't even vote. (http://www.kgw.com/news/local/more-than-half-of-arrested-anti-trump-protesters-didnt-vote/351964445) They seem to think that because they only care about one set of issues (http://www.richmond.com/news/local/city-of-richmond/article_00e85d51-4b55-5320-9cde-89b6d99f5579.html) in the presidential election that everyone who voted the other way must have done so in order to undermine those particular issues. And don't get me started on character-assassination. Why are the assholes who rave about Donald Trump being a womanizer perfectly fine with the idea of the first First Gentleman being Bill Clinton?

The moderate liberals are looking the other way, just like the moderate conservatives looked the other way when the other set of assholes did the same thing in 2008 and 2012.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on November 16, 2016, 10:38:25 PM
Chew on my horrible, scabby ass.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on November 16, 2016, 10:40:04 PM
And none of this is to downplay the role that protestors play; I just wish we weren't bullshitting ourselves and each other every time it happens. Instead of rationalizing and blanket-judging, I wish we could just step back and say, "Our asshole protestors are keeping your guy in check. When our guy is in office, your asshole protestors keep ours in check." None of this "our protestors are okay but yours were shit" kind of nonsense.

Just keep it real.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Salty on November 16, 2016, 10:50:21 PM
False dichotomy.
For one thing, I don't ever have any problems with any protestor.
For another, the Trump vs Bill Clinton argument is totally, completely, utterly stupid as he wasn't running for President.

Opinions are like assholes, AWESOME.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on November 16, 2016, 10:57:37 PM
Eat seven dicks, new guy.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Faust on November 16, 2016, 11:14:18 PM
If this was Bush/Clinton or Obama/Clinton you'd have a point. Irreconcilable political differences are arguably the only ones that apply to your argument (which at its heart still boils down to the "sour grapes" argument which I don't buy).

The fact is they aren't protesting Trumps political views of which there are very few consistent ones, because racism/homophobia/misogyny isn't a political stance.
Lets take the Bill Clinton argument, he falls into the latter, he had a relatively exploitative relationship with an intern when he was in a position of trust and power and then lied about it to the American people and it destroyed him, ending his presidency.

Trump (apart from flip flopping, lying and otherwise being unable to hold any kind of consistent political discourse) embodies open racism/homophobia/misogyny and a host of other pretty shitty characteristics and views and he is entering his presidency.

The Hilary isn't clean argument doesn't wash either: she was a bad candidate, he was an awful one, its detestable that they were the best two candidates a country of Three hundred million plus people could come up with, and that on its own, before anything else, is worthy of protest.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on November 17, 2016, 03:52:18 AM
Quote from: Vivat Alty on November 16, 2016, 10:50:21 PM
False dichotomy.

Reactionary right-wing demonstrators vs. reactionary left-wing demonstrators is a literal, actual dichotomy. With as divided as politics are in this country, I can hardly think of a clearer example of genuine opposites.

The problem is that they have more in common than anyone on either side seems willing to entertain.

Quote
For one thing, I don't ever have any problems with any protestor.

I have problems with the fact that people are constantly rationalizing "their" protestors/wingbats/extremists while using opposing demonstrators/nutjobs/radicals to condemn the entire other side. I have problems with mass hypocrisy.

I'm not condemning protestors in theory by calling them assholes; I'm just being honest. Protestors are assholes. It takes a special kind of person to go out and shout in the streets, vandalize monuments, and stop traffic in a state that actually voted the way they wanted it to vote.

Quote
For another, the Trump vs Bill Clinton argument is totally, completely, utterly stupid as he wasn't running for President.

Precisely the kind of rationalization I'm talking about. Things don't need to be perfectly equal to be comparable. If people were less upset about the fact that Bill Clinton would wind up being the First Gentleman due to his plethora of misogynistic sex-scandals than Donald Trump being president but still highly critical of the idea, I would understand. Unfortunately, the fact is that absolutely nobody on the left seems to care because he's on their team.

Quote
Opinions are like assholes, AWESOME.

Opinions are like children. Those who have them are usually the ones least qualified.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on November 17, 2016, 04:05:05 AM
Relevant: http://www.vox.com/identities/2016/11/15/13595508/racism-trump-research-study
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on November 17, 2016, 04:07:04 AM
Great.  Another alt-right assmonkey.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on November 17, 2016, 04:10:55 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 17, 2016, 04:07:04 AM
Great.  Another alt-right assmonkey.

Anyone who doesn't conform to either side gets labeled as the other side by both sides. It's getting so you can't even debate with people that you would otherwise agree with.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Salty on November 17, 2016, 04:17:35 AM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 17, 2016, 03:52:18 AM
Reactionary right-wing demonstrators vs. reactionary left-wing demonstrators is a literal, actual dichotomy. With as divided as politics are in this country, I can hardly think of a clearer example of genuine opposites.

The problem is that they have more in common than anyone on either side seems willing to entertain.

Right-wing =/= NAZIs. You see, the falseness of the dichotomy lies in associating behavior to the right that should not exist in the first place. It's not pepsi vs coke. It's pepsi vs a stinking pile of NAZI garbage.

Quote
Precisely the kind of rationalization I'm talking about. Things don't need to be perfectly equal to be comparable. If people were less upset about the fact that Bill Clinton would wind up being the First Gentleman due to his plethora of misogynistic sex-scandals than Donald Trump being president but still highly critical of the idea, I would understand. Unfortunately, the fact is that absolutely nobody on the left seems to care because he's on their team.

It's this sort of stupid, presumptuous bullshit which make sit hard to take you seriously. It makes it, in fact, a little difficult to imagine you're not trapped in a basement somewhere, and this is your cry for help.

Quote
Opinions are like children. Those who have them are usually the ones least qualified.

:butthurt:


Quote
Anyone who doesn't conform to either side gets labeled as the other side by both sides. It's getting so you can't even debate with people that you would otherwise agree with.

Welcome to the party.

Why do you assume anyone agrees with you about anything?
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on November 17, 2016, 04:38:51 AM
Quote from: Faust on November 16, 2016, 11:14:18 PM
its detestable that they were the best two candidates a country of Three hundred million plus people could come up with, and that on its own, before anything else, is worthy of protest.

I'm much more satisfied with the fact that Sanders is actively attempting (and apparently making headway) at reforming the DNC. If they want to appeal to 21st Century America, they probably need to ditch the Old Guard.

And if Trump does wind up screwing everything, they'll be in a better position to capitalize on his failures. What I'm hoping is that they don't follow the GOP's lead by actively attempting to cause him to fail in order to do so.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 17, 2016, 05:37:44 AM
Sorry, new guy, but your head is way too far up your ass.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 17, 2016, 05:52:09 AM
I seriously recommend looking at the economic demographics for Trump voters. They are not what you have assumed they are. They are mostly Christian, mostly make more than $50k and less than $100k per annum, mostly have high school degrees but not college degrees, and the single strongest predictor for voting for Trump was racism, followed by misogyny.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/06/06/racial-anxiety-is-a-huge-driver-of-support-for-donald-trump-two-new-studies-find/

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-mythology-of-trumps-working-class-support/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2016/10/23/how-sexism-drives-support-for-donald-trump/

http://forsetti.tumblr.com/post/153181757500/on-rural-america-understanding-isnt-the-problem
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 17, 2016, 06:00:51 AM
FWIW, the WaPo is a liberal mouthpiece but I looked at that study they cited, expecting it to be methodologically unsound, but I couldn't find any major criticisms. And, to some extent, it is my job to know when science is shitty.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on November 17, 2016, 07:52:54 AM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 17, 2016, 05:37:44 AM
Sorry, new guy, but your head is way too far up your ass.

I don't even understand what the fuck this is supposed to mean. You haven't addressed a single thing I've actually said; in fact, up until now I've made it a point to not respond to anyone who hasn't.

And now you're citing statistics about Trump voters and telling me that they're not what I "expect" when I haven't said a single thing about them other than that they apparently think putting an asshole in the White House is the way to get things done. And who knows? Maybe they're right.

To be honest, I'm sorely disappointed by the personally-directed hostility I'm seeing here, which I can only attribute to the general hostility most people these days express any time their political predispositions are called into question.

I expected other Discordians (of all people) to be able to appreciate the swing of a political pendulum and to recognize the absurdity of partisan politics. Instead, what I'm seeing are (mostly) a bunch of frightened, immature ideologues.

"Welcome to the party" indeed.

And you know what? I'm just fine with where my head is at. You are encouraged to shove yours up my ass as well.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Salty on November 17, 2016, 07:59:26 AM
Have not read ANY threads on this board?

I certainly didn't say YOU were stupid, just your ideas. Not your personally, just the shit you tried to share here.

PROTIP:Read more Pd.com
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on November 17, 2016, 08:11:53 AM
Quote from: Vivat Alty on November 17, 2016, 07:59:26 AM
I certainly didn't say YOU were stupid, just your ideas.

Sorry, I'm too busy "calling for help" from "inside a basement" to confirm this. Besides, I cut my losses on our conversation short once Godwin came into play.

Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Pergamos on November 17, 2016, 08:21:02 AM
If protestors are assholes then soldiers are horrible awful people.  Actions have contexts, sometimes traffic needs to be stopped, sometimes people need to be shot, sometimes things need to be bombed.  What and where and when and why all matter and trying to conflate the extreme left and the extreme right, when the extreme left is middle of the road for most European nations and the extreme right are a bit to the right of the government of the Confederacy is absolutely a false dichotomy.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on November 17, 2016, 08:27:36 AM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 17, 2016, 06:00:51 AM
FWIW, the WaPo is a liberal mouthpiece but I looked at that study they cited, expecting it to be methodologically unsound, but I couldn't find any major criticisms. And, to some extent, it is my job to know when science is shitty.

Then you should realize that the first study you linked to says that people with racial resentment are more likely to vote for Trump, not that people who vote for Trump are more likely to have racial resentment.

Why the hell am I defending Donald Trump here? My initial rant was about blind partisanship, hypocrisy, and rationalization.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on November 17, 2016, 08:39:15 AM
Quote from: Pergamos on November 17, 2016, 08:21:02 AM
If protestors are assholes then soldiers are horrible awful people.  Actions have contexts, sometimes traffic needs to be stopped, sometimes people need to be shot, sometimes things need to be bombed.  What and where and when and why all matter

Protestors organize of their own free-will and are usually driven by a mixture of anger, fear, and/or a certain amount of willful ignorance. Soldiers are voluntarily bound by law to unquestioningly follow orders. I fail to see any logic here.

Quote
and trying to conflate the extreme left and the extreme right, when the extreme left is middle of the road for most European nations and the extreme right are a bit to the right of the government of the Confederacy is absolutely a false dichotomy.

You're all defending liberalism so furiously that you're completely failing to see that I'm not attacking it; which is, ironically, part of my point.

The dichotomy has nothing to do with the entire range of the political spectrum and everything to do with simple partisan politics. This is especially important when you consider that Clinton and Trump are not far from each other on the political compass. I realize I speculate when I make the following claim, but drawing on what I've seen during the last 16 years, I'm prepared to suggest that had she won, we'd be seeing the right-wingers protesting with claims of a rigged election, "not my president", and cries to throw her in jail. The conservatives would be defending them with all sorts of rationalization and it would be the liberals who once again say, "Look at how dumb all the Republicans are, I can't believe they won't accept the outcome of this election."

It's the same nonsense put into practice either way. The winner gets compared to Hitler, and everyone goes home hating everyone else.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: MMIX on November 17, 2016, 01:18:52 PM
The real problem is all those troublemaking uppity whites y'all are so fond of of protecting. White people are like children. They do not think in terms of facts and reasons. They just get angry and stamp their feet like a child, expecting the whole world to stop and listen to them. They can only see things from their own point of view. They cannot put themselves into another person's shoes. They are overconfident and cannot think ahead, making poor decisions – and then blame others for their mess! Their hatred and anger further clouds their judgement.
https://storify.com/betakateenin/white-people-riots
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Junkenstein on November 17, 2016, 02:54:59 PM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 17, 2016, 08:27:36 AM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 17, 2016, 06:00:51 AM
FWIW, the WaPo is a liberal mouthpiece but I looked at that study they cited, expecting it to be methodologically unsound, but I couldn't find any major criticisms. And, to some extent, it is my job to know when science is shitty.

Then you should realize that the first study you linked to says that people with racial resentment are more likely to vote for Trump, not that people who vote for Trump are more likely to have racial resentment.

Why the hell am I defending Donald Trump here? My initial rant was about blind partisanship, hypocrisy, and rationalization.

It is quite possible you are not as smart as you think you are.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on November 17, 2016, 03:28:02 PM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 17, 2016, 03:52:18 AM
Quote from: Vivat Alty on November 16, 2016, 10:50:21 PM
False dichotomy.

Reactionary right-wing demonstrators vs. reactionary left-wing demonstrators is a literal, actual dichotomy. With as divided as politics are in this country, I can hardly think of a clearer example of genuine opposites.
I think technically the left-wing does radical bullshit. IIRC reactionary bullshit is by definition right-wing

Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 17, 2016, 03:52:18 AM
Opinions are like children. Those who have them are usually the ones least qualified.

And the mere fact of having one makes one stupider and more insufferable.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 17, 2016, 03:37:25 PM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 17, 2016, 08:27:36 AM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 17, 2016, 06:00:51 AM
FWIW, the WaPo is a liberal mouthpiece but I looked at that study they cited, expecting it to be methodologically unsound, but I couldn't find any major criticisms. And, to some extent, it is my job to know when science is shitty.

Then you should realize that the first study you linked to says that people with racial resentment are more likely to vote for Trump, not that people who vote for Trump are more likely to have racial resentment.

Why the hell am I defending Donald Trump here? My initial rant was about blind partisanship, hypocrisy, and rationalization.

Yes. I know that is what it says. Strangely, I also know how to interpret science and I have a decent grasp on statistical analysis, even though I have only taken two undergraduate courses and one graduate course in statistics.

I can also use logic.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 17, 2016, 03:39:38 PM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 17, 2016, 07:52:54 AM

To be honest, I'm sorely disappointed by the personally-directed hostility I'm seeing here, which I can only attribute to the general hostility most people these days express any time their political predispositions are called into question.

Well, shit; I defended your non-stupid premise in another thread. It's just that the premise of this thread is dimwitted and uneducated as fuck. The data is out there, but I can't exactly make you go find and read it before running your little typing fingers off.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 17, 2016, 03:41:16 PM
I mean, you wouldn't want to let facts get in the way of your beliefs, now would you?

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/no-voter-turnout-wasnt-way-down-from-2012/

QuoteApproximately 58.1 percent of eligible voters cast ballots in last week's presidential election, according to the latest estimates from Michael McDonald, associate professor at the University of Florida, who gathers data at the U.S. Elections Project. That's down only slightly from 2012, when turnout was 58.6 percent, and well above 2000's rate of 54.2 percent. Turnout may end up being higher than in any presidential election year between 1972 and 2000. (It's already higher than in any midterm election since 1896, according to McDonald's numbers, including the paltry 35.9 percent of voters who turned out two years ago.)
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 17, 2016, 03:46:44 PM
It might be worth noting that extensive voter suppression is a completely legitimate reason to protest.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/09/white-voters-victory-donald-trump-exit-polls

https://thinkprogress.org/2016-a-case-study-in-voter-suppression-258b5f90ddcd#.utf18pfj2

http://www.salon.com/2016/11/10/the-real-reason-black-voters-didnt-turn-out-for-hillary-clinton-and-how-to-fix-it/

Yet, despite all that, http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/11/opinion/clintons-substantial-popular-vote-win.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-elections/us-election-hillary-clinton-more-votes-popular-vote-any-candidate-barack-obama-donald-trump-a7413596.html
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on November 17, 2016, 03:50:57 PM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 17, 2016, 08:27:36 AM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 17, 2016, 06:00:51 AM
FWIW, the WaPo is a liberal mouthpiece but I looked at that study they cited, expecting it to be methodologically unsound, but I couldn't find any major criticisms. And, to some extent, it is my job to know when science is shitty.

Then you should realize that the first study you linked to says that people with racial resentment are more likely to vote for Trump, not that people who vote for Trump are more likely to have racial resentment.

Why the hell am I defending Donald Trump here? My initial rant was about blind partisanship, hypocrisy, and rationalization.

See, I am always in favor of people losing their shit, whether it be ranting here or protesting there.  About more or less anything.  Or, hell, nothing at all.

But I gotta say, I fail to see "protesting a Nazi and the people who elected him" as "nothing at all."
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on November 17, 2016, 04:25:38 PM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 17, 2016, 07:52:54 AM
I expected other Discordians (of all people) to be able to appreciate the swing of a political pendulum and to recognize the absurdity of partisan politics.

Well I do and I saw this coming, not because Trump has any merit or the American people are any more redneck than usual but because since before my parents were born we've never had two democratic presidents in a row where the first one didn't die in office (and only once have we had two republicans in a row where one didn't leave office before his term was up). It's like a see-saw.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 17, 2016, 04:38:10 PM
Just an FYI: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/middle-ground
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on November 17, 2016, 05:03:43 PM
I don't think the two sides should be compromised. They don't contain enough sense between them to make one sensible position.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Salty on November 17, 2016, 05:11:01 PM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 17, 2016, 08:11:53 AM
Quote from: Vivat Alty on November 17, 2016, 07:59:26 AM
I certainly didn't say YOU were stupid, just your ideas.

Sorry, I'm too busy "calling for help" from "inside a basement" to confirm this. Besides, I cut my losses on our conversation short once Godwin came into play.

That was after you called me a child, silly! Keep UP.

As for Godwin. This has been bugging me all election.

Godwin's Law has been thrown around quite a bit, and I take issue with that because I am stickler for details. Godwin's law applies when in the midst of an argument you call your opponent a NAZI or Hitler as a means of defending your point. My point is that the right just elected a president with actual NAZI ideology, as opposed to conservative ideology. There's a subtle difference there. However, seeing as subtle difference isn't your thing, it could be an easy thing to miss.

You can't just shout GODWIN, OMG GODWIN, like you're playing BINGO whenever you hear or see the word NAZI.

I mean, you can, but it's dumb.

Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on November 17, 2016, 05:18:46 PM
Quote from: Vivat Alty on November 17, 2016, 05:11:01 PM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 17, 2016, 08:11:53 AM
Quote from: Vivat Alty on November 17, 2016, 07:59:26 AM
I certainly didn't say YOU were stupid, just your ideas.

Sorry, I'm too busy "calling for help" from "inside a basement" to confirm this. Besides, I cut my losses on our conversation short once Godwin came into play.

That was after you called me a child, silly! Keep UP.

As for Godwin. This has been bugging me all election.

Godwin's Law has been thrown around quite a bit, and I take issue with that because I am stickler for details. Godwin's law applies when in the midst of an argument you call your opponent a NAZI or Hitler as a means of defending your point. My point is that the right just elected a president with actual NAZI ideology, as opposed to conservative ideology. There's a subtle difference there. However, seeing as subtle difference isn't your thing, it could be an easy thing to miss.

You can't just shout GODWIN, OMG GODWIN, like you're playing BINGO whenever you hear or see the word NAZI.

I mean, you can, but it's dumb.

To be fair, not all crazy toxic racist douchebags are nazis. Jefferson Davis, for example, was not a nazi.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Salty on November 17, 2016, 05:20:22 PM
Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on November 17, 2016, 05:18:46 PM
Quote from: Vivat Alty on November 17, 2016, 05:11:01 PM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 17, 2016, 08:11:53 AM
Quote from: Vivat Alty on November 17, 2016, 07:59:26 AM
I certainly didn't say YOU were stupid, just your ideas.

Sorry, I'm too busy "calling for help" from "inside a basement" to confirm this. Besides, I cut my losses on our conversation short once Godwin came into play.

That was after you called me a child, silly! Keep UP.

As for Godwin. This has been bugging me all election.

Godwin's Law has been thrown around quite a bit, and I take issue with that because I am stickler for details. Godwin's law applies when in the midst of an argument you call your opponent a NAZI or Hitler as a means of defending your point. My point is that the right just elected a president with actual NAZI ideology, as opposed to conservative ideology. There's a subtle difference there. However, seeing as subtle difference isn't your thing, it could be an easy thing to miss.

You can't just shout GODWIN, OMG GODWIN, like you're playing BINGO whenever you hear or see the word NAZI.

I mean, you can, but it's dumb.

To be fair, not all crazy toxic racist douchebags are nazis. Jefferson Davis, for example, was not a nazi.

:stfu3:
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on November 17, 2016, 05:31:41 PM
I'm not saying the confederacy weren't scum, just that there's a difference between shit and piss
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Salty on November 17, 2016, 05:38:47 PM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 17, 2016, 08:39:15 AM
A. You're all defending liberalism

B. This is especially important when you consider that Clinton and Trump are not far from each other on the political compass.


A. Haha, nope.

B.
:treefucker:

That is my exact point. If you're so deep inside your own perspective that you can't see the massive difference between those two people, it's no wonder you've come to this board with waaaaaaay too many assumptions.

Maybe you came do a Discordian board to have nice, reasonable, orderly conversation. You thought maybe Eris wanted us all to sit down and accept the other's position all nice and polite.

Again, read more Pd.com
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Salty on November 17, 2016, 05:40:18 PM
Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on November 17, 2016, 05:31:41 PM
I'm not saying the confederacy weren't scum, just that there's a difference between shit and piss

I don't care what you're saying. I don't know how this is new information, I have been pretty clear on this point.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on November 17, 2016, 05:46:04 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 17, 2016, 03:39:38 PM
It's just that the premise of this thread is dimwitted and uneducated as fuck. The data is out there

I don't think you understand the premise. You seem to think it's some kind of false equivalency, as if I'm saying that every opinion is equally right.

Opinions are obviously subjective and relative. My entire argument is that if you lean to the left, you're more likely to defend the views of people on the "extreme" left and demonize the views of the entire right based on the actions of the "extreme" right. The same goes the other way around.

My point is proven by everyone who is mistaking this for a false-equivalency argument - as if to say both ideologies are valid - by doing exactly what I'm saying they'd do: suggesting that the actions of the most extreme people on their side are defensible because


Predictable (and understandable) rationalization, and I hear it every single time from the people on the losing side of a presidential election.

And all this squirming and posturing just to avoid admitting the one simple fact that I started this thread to say: protestors are assholes.

More specifically, people who immediately protest a systematically valid and uncontested presidential election are assholes.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: East Coast Hustle on November 17, 2016, 05:50:10 PM
There's definitely an asshole in this conversation, but I don't think it's got anything to do with protesters.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on November 17, 2016, 05:50:15 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 17, 2016, 03:46:44 PM
It might be worth noting that extensive voter suppression is a completely legitimate reason to protest.

I agree, but these people haven't been protesting voter suppression; they've been protesting the way that the country decided to vote. They are quite literally demonstrating against a system of democracy simply because it didn't work for them this one time: just like the assholes who did it last time, and the time before that, and the time before that...
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Salty on November 17, 2016, 05:54:55 PM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 17, 2016, 05:50:15 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 17, 2016, 03:46:44 PM
It might be worth noting that extensive voter suppression is a completely legitimate reason to protest.

I agree, but these people haven't been protesting voter suppression; they've been protesting the way that the country decided to vote. They are quite literally demonstrating against a system of democracy simply because it didn't work for them this one time: just like the assholes who did it last time, and the time before that, and the time before that...


Capital argument, could you repeat it one more time, for the people in the back?
                 /
:judge:
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on November 17, 2016, 06:00:23 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 17, 2016, 03:50:57 PM
See, I am always in favor of people losing their shit, whether it be ranting here or protesting there.  About more or less anything.  Or, hell, nothing at all.

Spoken like a true Discordian!

Quote
But I gotta say, I fail to see "protesting a Nazi and the people who elected him" as "nothing at all."

Well, first of all, if you're left-leaning politically, then you probably would sympathize. The real question is whether or not you condemn the people who, in 2008, claimed to be protesting a "Communist and the people who elected him".

Of course, if you think that Donald Trump is a literal Nazi, you probably have a fairly uncompromising position, and you are less likely to be interested in diplomacy between two incredibly powerful political institutions.

Congratulations! You've become an obstructionist and a filibusterer! (Just like "they" did.)

The more people are different, the more they are alike.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on November 17, 2016, 06:10:34 PM
Quote from: Vivat Alty on November 17, 2016, 05:11:01 PM
That was after you called me a child, silly! Keep UP.

I didn't call you a child; I said that opinions were like children: those who have them are usually the ones least qualified. It's an addage that I've been saying for years. I wasn't making a comment on your particular opinions, but simply responding to the twist on the "opinions are like assholes" saying.

"I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!"

Quote
As for Godwin. This has been bugging me all election.

Godwin's law applies when in the midst of an argument you call your opponent a NAZI or Hitler as a means of defending your point. My point is that the right just elected a president with actual NAZI ideology, as opposed to conservative ideology.

Since Godwin's Law isn't formal, it has been long-since (unspokenly) amended to include people who accuse others of being literal Nazis as a form of hyperbole.

If you honestly, truly believe that someone is an actual Nazi, you've got a pretty big burden of proof resting on your shoulders if you're going to invoke that opinion in an argument. Most of the time, you'll just not be taken seriously and people will assume that you're being hyperbolic and vitriolic.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Salty on November 17, 2016, 06:23:10 PM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 17, 2016, 06:10:34 PM

I didn't call you a child; I said that opinions were like children: those who have them are usually the ones least qualified. It's an addage that I've been saying for years. I wasn't making a comment on your particular opinions, but simply responding to the twist on the "opinions are like assholes" saying.

"I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!"


Oh, then I am sorry.  :oops:



Quote
Since Godwin's Law isn't formal, it has been long-since (unspokenly) amended to include people who accuse others of being literal Nazis as a form of hyperbole.

If you honestly, truly believe that someone is an actual Nazi, you've got a pretty big burden of proof resting on your shoulders if you're going to invoke that opinion in an argument. Most of the time, you'll just not be taken seriously and people will assume that you're being hyperbolic and vitriolic.

:cn:

If (the general) you can't recognize the parallels in the rhetoric, method, and values of Trump and NAZIs, yeah I suppose it will look like hyperbole. I absolutely mean it literally.

The burden for proof that the current administration is just like the right wing, and thus the reactions of the left are unwarrented lies with YOU.

But what the hell:
"Intentionalist historians of Nazi Germany traditionally emphasize the unique role of Hitler in legitimizing and directing Nazi rule from the very beginning of the movement (Jaeckel 1972; Bracher 1979).7 On this view, German fascism is seen as a 'monocratic' system of rule (Alleinherrschaft) which is not only dependent on the ideological vision of the leader but on his personal decision making. As structuralist historians argue, however, this interpretation downplays the multi-dimensional nature of decision making in the Third Reich and the deliberate cultivation of the 'Führer myth' as a legitimation device, which allowed Nazi rulers to attribute policy successes to the leader while blaming lesser functionaries for the chaotic reality of polycratic rule (Broszat 1981; Mason 1971; Mommsen 1991b). As Kershaw points out, this allowed the Nazi elite to project an image of the Führer as a leader without sin, a person who could transcend sectional interests and rise above everyday political squabbles."
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on November 17, 2016, 06:26:55 PM
Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on November 17, 2016, 04:25:38 PM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 17, 2016, 07:52:54 AM
I expected other Discordians (of all people) to be able to appreciate the swing of a political pendulum and to recognize the absurdity of partisan politics.

Well I do and I saw this coming, not because Trump has any merit or the American people are any more redneck than usual but because since before my parents were born we've never had two democratic presidents in a row where the first one didn't die in office (and only once have we had two republicans in a row where one didn't leave office before his term was up). It's like a see-saw.

I'm starting to wonder whether or not the "see-saw" is the only way this country can function, both for itself and for the rest of the world.

There are a lot of people who would like to see the see-saw permanently tipped in one direction or the other, and I sometimes wonder what the consequences would be, for better and for worse.

That is, however, a topic on which I'm probably unqualified to reliably speculate.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on November 17, 2016, 06:35:59 PM
Quote from: Vivat Alty on November 17, 2016, 06:23:10 PM
Oh, then I am sorry.  :oops:

Forgiven and forgotten! I should have made it clearer that I was being general and sardonic.

Quote
The burden for proof that the current administration is just like the right wing, and thus the reactions of the left are unwarrented lies with YOU.

Haha, well, that's not generally how burden of proof in an argument works, but I understand what you're saying.

Quote
"Intentionalist historians of Nazi Germany traditionally emphasize the unique role of Hitler in legitimizing and directing Nazi rule from the very beginning of the movement (Jaeckel 1972; Bracher 1979).7 On this view, German fascism is seen as a 'monocratic' system of rule (Alleinherrschaft) which is not only dependent on the ideological vision of the leader but on his personal decision making. As structuralist historians argue, however, this interpretation downplays the multi-dimensional nature of decision making in the Third Reich and the deliberate cultivation of the 'Führer myth' as a legitimation device, which allowed Nazi rulers to attribute policy successes to the leader while blaming lesser functionaries for the chaotic reality of polycratic rule (Broszat 1981; Mason 1971; Mommsen 1991b). As Kershaw points out, this allowed the Nazi elite to project an image of the Führer as a leader without sin, a person who could transcend sectional interests and rise above everyday political squabbles."

I wasn't asking for proof or evidence, but as a side note I do find the honest concept wildly fascinating; probably as much as the earnest belief that the Democratic party is merely an extension of the Chinese government.

I should state for the record that I neither believe nor disbelieve either notion.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: LMNO on November 17, 2016, 06:53:07 PM
Hold on:
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 17, 2016, 06:10:34 PM
Since Godwin's Law isn't formal, it has been long-since (unspokenly) amended to include people who accuse others of being literal Nazis as a form of hyperbole.

"Literally: actually; without exaggeration or inaccuracy"
"Hyperbole: an extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to be taken literally"

Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 17, 2016, 06:10:34 PM
Without exaggeration or inaccuracy calling someone a Nazi as an extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to be taken literally.

:um:
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Salty on November 17, 2016, 06:53:53 PM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 17, 2016, 06:35:59 PM
Haha, well, that's not generally how burden of proof in an argument works, but I understand what you're saying.

Pretty sure that's exactly how it works. You open the thread, your statements require proof. Am I wrong here? Have I been egregiously misinformed, people?

QuoteI wasn't asking for proof or evidence

You were claiming my point was hyperbole, I countered with evidence this is not so.

Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on November 17, 2016, 07:07:03 PM
Quote from: Vivat Alty on November 17, 2016, 06:53:53 PM
You open the thread, your statements require proof. Am I wrong here? Have I been egregiously misinformed, people?

We might be getting crosstalk again. Not to flog a dying horse, but burden of proof (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophic_burden_of_proof) is on any person who makes an assertion to provide support for that claim.

In other words, if you accuse someone of being a Nazi and want to be taken seriously, you have a large burden of proof on you. The burden of proof isn't on whomever you're trying to convince. I understand, however, the reasons behind telling people to go out and do their own research.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Salty on November 17, 2016, 07:19:41 PM
You positioned the left and the right as equally opposing sides in regard to this election.

I said that was erroneous and gave my reasons.

Now we are in quibbling over definitions and what is and what is not Godwin's Law.

:lol:
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on November 17, 2016, 07:25:28 PM
Quote from: LMNO on November 17, 2016, 06:53:07 PM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 17, 2016, 06:10:34 PM
Since Godwin's Law isn't formal, it has been long-since (unspokenly) amended to include people who accuse others of being literal Nazis as a form of hyperbole.

"Literally: actually; without exaggeration or inaccuracy"
"Hyperbole: an extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to be taken literally"

Correct. People sometimes use the word "literally" when they are, in fact, being hyperbolic.

It's an effort to have the best of both worlds in an argument. You get to hold an extreme position that you know nobody else will take seriously, and then if they later accuse you of being serious, you can simply say that you weren't.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on November 17, 2016, 07:27:42 PM
Quote from: Vivat Alty on November 17, 2016, 07:19:41 PM
You positioned the left and the right as equally opposing sides in regard to this election.

I said that was erroneous and gave my reasons.

Now we are in quibbling over definitions and what is and what is not Godwin's Law.

:lol:

I would not agree that any of this is an accurate description of what has taken place; certainly not from my point-of-view.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Salty on November 17, 2016, 07:30:30 PM
Ok, then I will have to re-asess this entire thread.

My analysis:
:fishhook:
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Junkenstein on November 17, 2016, 07:30:40 PM
Quote from: Vivat Alty on November 17, 2016, 07:19:41 PM
You positioned the left and the right as equally opposing sides in regard to this election.

I said that was erroneous and gave my reasons.

Now we are in quibbling over definitions and what is and what is not Godwin's Law.

:lol:

Memo to self,1 reword a speech by Hitler to trump style.
2 claim its an actual speech by trump
3 ???
4 profit
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Salty on November 17, 2016, 07:33:23 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on November 17, 2016, 07:30:40 PM
Quote from: Vivat Alty on November 17, 2016, 07:19:41 PM
You positioned the left and the right as equally opposing sides in regard to this election.

I said that was erroneous and gave my reasons.

Now we are in quibbling over definitions and what is and what is not Godwin's Law.

:lol:

Memo to self,1 reword a speech by Hitler to trump style.
2 claim its an actual speech by trump
3 ???
4 profit

:lulz:

Yessssssss.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on November 17, 2016, 07:34:17 PM
3 is facebook, in case your question wasn't hyperbolical
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: LMNO on November 17, 2016, 07:36:19 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on November 17, 2016, 07:34:17 PM
3 is facebook, in case your question wasn't hyperbolical

Or literally hyperbolic.

Or something.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Pergamos on November 17, 2016, 07:55:16 PM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 17, 2016, 06:00:23 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 17, 2016, 03:50:57 PM
See, I am always in favor of people losing their shit, whether it be ranting here or protesting there.  About more or less anything.  Or, hell, nothing at all.

Spoken like a true Discordian!

Quote
But I gotta say, I fail to see "protesting a Nazi and the people who elected him" as "nothing at all."

Well, first of all, if you're left-leaning politically, then you probably would sympathize. The real question is whether or not you condemn the people who, in 2008, claimed to be protesting a "Communist and the people who elected him".

Of course, if you think that Donald Trump is a literal Nazi, you probably have a fairly uncompromising position, and you are less likely to be interested in diplomacy between two incredibly powerful political institutions.

Congratulations! You've become an obstructionist and a filibusterer! (Just like "they" did.)

The more people are different, the more they are alike.

We could REALLY use more obstructrionist filibusterers in the Democratic party.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Salty on November 17, 2016, 07:58:11 PM
Quote from: Pergamos on November 17, 2016, 07:55:16 PM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 17, 2016, 06:00:23 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 17, 2016, 03:50:57 PM
See, I am always in favor of people losing their shit, whether it be ranting here or protesting there.  About more or less anything.  Or, hell, nothing at all.

Spoken like a true Discordian!

Quote
But I gotta say, I fail to see "protesting a Nazi and the people who elected him" as "nothing at all."

Well, first of all, if you're left-leaning politically, then you probably would sympathize. The real question is whether or not you condemn the people who, in 2008, claimed to be protesting a "Communist and the people who elected him".

Of course, if you think that Donald Trump is a literal Nazi, you probably have a fairly uncompromising position, and you are less likely to be interested in diplomacy between two incredibly powerful political institutions.

Congratulations! You've become an obstructionist and a filibusterer! (Just like "they" did.)

The more people are different, the more they are alike.

We could REALLY use more obstructrionist filibusterers in the Democratic party.

SERIOUSLY! If that helps prevent some really nasty consequences for women and the environment and everything else under threat I would be okay with Dems drowning kittens. Filibustering is their job, and they will likely, as usual, fail at it.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Pergamos on November 17, 2016, 07:59:33 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on November 17, 2016, 07:30:40 PM
Quote from: Vivat Alty on November 17, 2016, 07:19:41 PM
You positioned the left and the right as equally opposing sides in regard to this election.

I said that was erroneous and gave my reasons.

Now we are in quibbling over definitions and what is and what is not Godwin's Law.

:lol:

Memo to self,1 reword a speech by Hitler to trump style.
2 claim its an actual speech by trump
3 ???
4 profit

That would be great.  I would pick one that does not talk about Jews, or else change references to them to Mexicans or Muslims.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: LMNO on November 17, 2016, 08:02:15 PM
Quote from: Vivat Alty on November 17, 2016, 07:58:11 PM
SERIOUSLY! If that helps prevent some really nasty consequences for women and the environment and everything else under threat I would be okay with Dems drowning kittens. Filibustering is their job, and they will likely, as usual, fail at it.

I mean, Obama tried to give everyone healthcare, and the GOP shut the damn government down over it.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Pergamos on November 17, 2016, 08:25:53 PM
Quote from: LMNO on November 17, 2016, 08:02:15 PM
Quote from: Vivat Alty on November 17, 2016, 07:58:11 PM
SERIOUSLY! If that helps prevent some really nasty consequences for women and the environment and everything else under threat I would be okay with Dems drowning kittens. Filibustering is their job, and they will likely, as usual, fail at it.

I mean, Obama tried to give everyone healthcare, and the GOP shut the damn government down over it.

That's actually not quite how it went.  Obama DID give everyone healthcare and then shut the government down when the GOP tried to take it away.  Obama was doing his job correctly.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: LMNO on November 17, 2016, 08:30:52 PM
Quote from: Pergamos on November 17, 2016, 08:25:53 PM
Quote from: LMNO on November 17, 2016, 08:02:15 PM
Quote from: Vivat Alty on November 17, 2016, 07:58:11 PM
SERIOUSLY! If that helps prevent some really nasty consequences for women and the environment and everything else under threat I would be okay with Dems drowning kittens. Filibustering is their job, and they will likely, as usual, fail at it.

I mean, Obama tried to give everyone healthcare, and the GOP shut the damn government down over it.

That's actually not quite how it went.  Obama DID give everyone healthcare and then shut the government down when the GOP tried to take it away.  Obama was doing his job correctly.

[/Requia]
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Salty on November 17, 2016, 08:31:59 PM
Quote from: LMNO on November 17, 2016, 08:30:52 PM
Quote from: Pergamos on November 17, 2016, 08:25:53 PM
Quote from: LMNO on November 17, 2016, 08:02:15 PM
Quote from: Vivat Alty on November 17, 2016, 07:58:11 PM
SERIOUSLY! If that helps prevent some really nasty consequences for women and the environment and everything else under threat I would be okay with Dems drowning kittens. Filibustering is their job, and they will likely, as usual, fail at it.

I mean, Obama tried to give everyone healthcare, and the GOP shut the damn government down over it.

That's actually not quite how it went.  Obama DID give everyone healthcare and then shut the government down when the GOP tried to take it away.  Obama was doing his job correctly.

[/Requia]

:lulz:
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on November 17, 2016, 08:42:21 PM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 17, 2016, 06:00:23 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 17, 2016, 03:50:57 PM
See, I am always in favor of people losing their shit, whether it be ranting here or protesting there.  About more or less anything.  Or, hell, nothing at all.

Spoken like a true Discordian!

Quote
But I gotta say, I fail to see "protesting a Nazi and the people who elected him" as "nothing at all."

Well, first of all, if you're left-leaning politically, then you probably would sympathize. The real question is whether or not you condemn the people who, in 2008, claimed to be protesting a "Communist and the people who elected him".

Of course, if you think that Donald Trump is a literal Nazi, you probably have a fairly uncompromising position, and you are less likely to be interested in diplomacy between two incredibly powerful political institutions.

Congratulations! You've become an obstructionist and a filibusterer! (Just like "they" did.)

The more people are different, the more they are alike.

Or I've been paying attention a tad.

Godwin doesn't apply when there's actual Nazis involved.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on November 17, 2016, 08:45:16 PM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 17, 2016, 07:25:28 PM
Quote from: LMNO on November 17, 2016, 06:53:07 PM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 17, 2016, 06:10:34 PM
Since Godwin's Law isn't formal, it has been long-since (unspokenly) amended to include people who accuse others of being literal Nazis as a form of hyperbole.

"Literally: actually; without exaggeration or inaccuracy"
"Hyperbole: an extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to be taken literally"

Correct. People sometimes use the word "literally" when they are, in fact, being hyperbolic.

It's an effort to have the best of both worlds in an argument. You get to hold an extreme position that you know nobody else will take seriously, and then if they later accuse you of being serious, you can simply say that you weren't.

OR HOW ABOUT:  Claim that your opponent is using hyperbole when he's dead serious, as a means to dismiss an argument.

Now, if this thread is going to be you making or altering other peoples' arguments for them, say so now, please.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on November 17, 2016, 09:08:56 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 17, 2016, 08:45:16 PM
OR HOW ABOUT:  Claim that your opponent is using hyperbole when he's dead serious, as a means to dismiss an argument.

Now, if this thread is going to be you making or altering other peoples' arguments for them, say so now, please.

Am I attempting to dismantle an argument by claiming someone is being hyperbolic when they aren't?

I assumed that Vivat was being hyperbolic, and I explained why.

If you want to debate whether or not Trump objectively qualifies as a Nazi, I suggest you start a new thread. Until then, I will continue - in this thread - to view that accusation as an attempt to undermine what is essentially a straw-manning of my original point.

Original post: People who immediately protest the legitimate and democratic elections of Presidents are assholes and we either rationalize or ignore their behavior if we share the same political views or use them to demonize the opposing party if we don't.

Straw-manned argument: Conservatism and liberalism are equally valid points of view.

Argument against the straw-man: Conservatism is invalid because they are Nazis. Not just like Nazis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Party), but actual, real, genuine Nazis (http://www.americannaziparty.com/).
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Salty on November 17, 2016, 09:12:10 PM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 17, 2016, 09:08:56 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 17, 2016, 08:45:16 PM
OR HOW ABOUT:  Claim that your opponent is using hyperbole when he's dead serious, as a means to dismiss an argument.

Now, if this thread is going to be you making or altering other peoples' arguments for them, say so now, please.

Am I attempting to dismantle an argument by claiming someone is being hyperbolic when they aren't?

I assumed that Vivat was being hyperbolic, and I explained why.

If you want to debate whether or not Trump objectively qualifies as a Nazi, I suggest you start a new thread. Until then, I will continue - in this thread - to view that accusation as an attempt to undermine what is essentially a straw-manning of my original point.

Original post: People who immediately protest the legitimate and democratic elections of Presidents are assholes and we either rationalize their behavior if they share the same political views or use them to demonize the opposing party if we don't.

Straw-manned argument: Conservatism and liberalism are equally valid points of view.

Argument against the straw-man: Conservatism is invalid because they are Nazis. Not just like Nazis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Party), but actual, real, genuine Nazis (http://www.americannaziparty.com/).

:lulz:

LONG LIVE VIVAT!
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Salty on November 17, 2016, 09:14:34 PM
WHOOOOOOO, I just can't get over that. Never did I imagine someone on this board would roll along with that cheap gag.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Salty on November 17, 2016, 09:17:22 PM
FTR, you assuming things seems to be your approach to discourse here.

Good luck with that.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on November 17, 2016, 09:28:19 PM
Quote from: Vivat Alty on November 17, 2016, 09:17:22 PM
FTR, you assuming things seems to be your approach to discourse here.

Please, feel free to provide me with a list of things that you think I've inaccurately assumed.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Salty on November 17, 2016, 09:36:58 PM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 17, 2016, 09:28:19 PM
Quote from: Vivat Alty on November 17, 2016, 09:17:22 PM
FTR, you assuming things seems to be your approach to discourse here.

Please, feel free to provide me with a list of things that you think I've inaccurately assumed.

And then what? Do your laundry? Cut up your food? You are, presumably, a grown human. Surely, you can go back and hazard a guess.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on November 17, 2016, 09:43:42 PM
Quote from: Vivat Alty on November 17, 2016, 09:36:58 PM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 17, 2016, 09:28:19 PM
Quote from: Vivat Alty on November 17, 2016, 09:17:22 PM
FTR, you assuming things seems to be your approach to discourse here.

Please, feel free to provide me with a list of things that you think I've inaccurately assumed.

And then what? Do your laundry? Cut up your food? You are, presumably, a grown human. Surely, you can go back and hazard a guess.

My mistake, I assumed that your criticism was in earnest.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Cainad (dec.) on November 17, 2016, 10:05:56 PM
Any protest that doesn't piss off a lot of people and seem totally unreasonable to outsiders is probably a shitty protest.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Salty on November 17, 2016, 10:10:16 PM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 17, 2016, 09:43:42 PM
Quote from: Vivat Alty on November 17, 2016, 09:36:58 PM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 17, 2016, 09:28:19 PM
Quote from: Vivat Alty on November 17, 2016, 09:17:22 PM
FTR, you assuming things seems to be your approach to discourse here.

Please, feel free to provide me with a list of things that you think I've inaccurately assumed.

And then what? Do your laundry? Cut up your food? You are, presumably, a grown human. Surely, you can go back and hazard a guess.

My mistake, I assumed that your criticism was in earnest.

And now you're assuming otherwise.

:retard:
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on November 18, 2016, 12:21:10 AM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 17, 2016, 09:08:56 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 17, 2016, 08:45:16 PM
OR HOW ABOUT:  Claim that your opponent is using hyperbole when he's dead serious, as a means to dismiss an argument.

Now, if this thread is going to be you making or altering other peoples' arguments for them, say so now, please.

Am I attempting to dismantle an argument by claiming someone is being hyperbolic when they aren't?

I assumed that Vivat was being hyperbolic, and I explained why.

If you want to debate whether or not Trump objectively qualifies as a Nazi, I suggest you start a new thread. Until then, I will continue - in this thread - to view that accusation as an attempt to undermine what is essentially a straw-manning of my original point.

Original post: People who immediately protest the legitimate and democratic elections of Presidents are assholes and we either rationalize or ignore their behavior if we share the same political views or use them to demonize the opposing party if we don't.

Straw-manned argument: Conservatism and liberalism are equally valid points of view.

Argument against the straw-man: Conservatism is invalid because they are Nazis. Not just like Nazis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Party), but actual, real, genuine Nazis (http://www.americannaziparty.com/).

I wasn't talking about Alty.  He's a smart guy, he can make his own arguments.

I called Trump and his supporters Nazis because they are indistinguishable from the early Nazi party, except that they are incompetent at it.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on November 18, 2016, 12:21:50 AM
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on November 17, 2016, 10:05:56 PM
Any protest that doesn't piss off a lot of people and seem totally unreasonable to outsiders is probably a shitty protest.

Also this.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on November 18, 2016, 12:26:38 AM
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on November 17, 2016, 10:05:56 PM
Any protest that doesn't piss off a lot of people and seem totally unreasonable to outsiders is probably a shitty protest.

:argh!:
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 18, 2016, 04:40:11 AM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 17, 2016, 05:46:04 PM

More specifically, people who immediately protest a systematically valid and uncontested presidential election are assholes.

I take it you just haven't bothered reading about the voter suppression issue, then, and also don't quite grasp the purpose of protests or what they can accomplish.

You seem to be saying that whoever loses should simply sit down and shut up, no matter what.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 18, 2016, 04:41:59 AM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 17, 2016, 05:50:15 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 17, 2016, 03:46:44 PM
It might be worth noting that extensive voter suppression is a completely legitimate reason to protest.

I agree, but these people haven't been protesting voter suppression; they've been protesting the way that the country decided to vote. They are quite literally demonstrating against a system of democracy simply because it didn't work for them this one time: just like the assholes who did it last time, and the time before that, and the time before that...

Hmmmm, I wonder... what possible political gain could come from wide-scale protests of the election of a man who ran on a platform heavily based in bigotry and xenophobia, and appointed a white nationalist organizer to his cabinet? Hmmmmm, I wonder.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 18, 2016, 04:43:44 AM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 17, 2016, 06:26:55 PM

That is, however, a topic on which I'm probably unqualified to reliably speculate.

Thank fuck you have at least this much self-awareness. Too bad you can't seem to apply it more broadly.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 18, 2016, 04:45:10 AM
Quote from: Vivat Alty on November 17, 2016, 06:53:53 PM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 17, 2016, 06:35:59 PM
Haha, well, that's not generally how burden of proof in an argument works, but I understand what you're saying.

Pretty sure that's exactly how it works. You open the thread, your statements require proof. Am I wrong here? Have I been egregiously misinformed, people?

QuoteI wasn't asking for proof or evidence

You were claiming my point was hyperbole, I countered with evidence this is not so.

No, I don't think you've missed anything. It's just that when you argue with a SGiTR, you can't expect consistency of logical thought or any real level of competence in the topic at hand.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 18, 2016, 04:46:58 AM
Quote from: Junkenstein on November 17, 2016, 07:30:40 PM
Quote from: Vivat Alty on November 17, 2016, 07:19:41 PM
You positioned the left and the right as equally opposing sides in regard to this election.

I said that was erroneous and gave my reasons.

Now we are in quibbling over definitions and what is and what is not Godwin's Law.

:lol:


Memo to self,1 reword a speech by Hitler to trump style.
2 claim its an actual speech by trump
3 ???
4 profit

:lulz: I think you have a winning proposition, my good man.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 18, 2016, 04:48:43 AM
Quote from: Vivat Alty on November 17, 2016, 09:12:10 PM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 17, 2016, 09:08:56 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 17, 2016, 08:45:16 PM
OR HOW ABOUT:  Claim that your opponent is using hyperbole when he's dead serious, as a means to dismiss an argument.

Now, if this thread is going to be you making or altering other peoples' arguments for them, say so now, please.

Am I attempting to dismantle an argument by claiming someone is being hyperbolic when they aren't?

I assumed that Vivat was being hyperbolic, and I explained why.

If you want to debate whether or not Trump objectively qualifies as a Nazi, I suggest you start a new thread. Until then, I will continue - in this thread - to view that accusation as an attempt to undermine what is essentially a straw-manning of my original point.

Original post: People who immediately protest the legitimate and democratic elections of Presidents are assholes and we either rationalize their behavior if they share the same political views or use them to demonize the opposing party if we don't.

Straw-manned argument: Conservatism and liberalism are equally valid points of view.

Argument against the straw-man: Conservatism is invalid because they are Nazis. Not just like Nazis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Party), but actual, real, genuine Nazis (http://www.americannaziparty.com/).

:lulz:

LONG LIVE VIVAT!

VIVAT VIVAT!!!
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on November 18, 2016, 05:08:14 AM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 18, 2016, 04:40:11 AM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 17, 2016, 05:46:04 PM

More specifically, people who immediately protest a systematically valid and uncontested presidential election are assholes.

I take it you just haven't bothered reading about the voter suppression issue, then, and also don't quite grasp the purpose of protests or what they can accomplish.

You seem to be saying that whoever loses should simply sit down and shut up, no matter what.

These people weren't protesting voter suppression, nor were they using that as an excuse for protesting a democratic vote. Fun fact: no data has been presented which has shown that "voter suppression" led to Trump's victory. There are a scant few news articles that have tried to run with that narrative, but if you're forming protests and vandalizing public property because of what you read in a news story, you're even more of an asshole than I originally claimed.

You're still rationalizing the most recent wave of protests. Rather than arguing against my original point, you're reinforcing it.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on November 18, 2016, 05:12:33 AM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 18, 2016, 04:45:10 AM
Quote from: Vivat Alty on November 17, 2016, 06:53:53 PM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 17, 2016, 06:35:59 PM
Haha, well, that's not generally how burden of proof in an argument works, but I understand what you're saying.

Pretty sure that's exactly how it works. You open the thread, your statements require proof. Am I wrong here? Have I been egregiously misinformed, people?

QuoteI wasn't asking for proof or evidence

You were claiming my point was hyperbole, I countered with evidence this is not so.

No, I don't think you've missed anything. It's just that when you argue with a SGiTR, you can't expect consistency of logical thought or any real level of competence in the topic at hand.

Just because I point out that the burden of proof is on someone else to justify a claim doesn't mean I care to hear it. Especially when that explanation is predictably asinine.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Salty on November 18, 2016, 05:22:22 AM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 18, 2016, 05:12:33 AM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 18, 2016, 04:45:10 AM
Quote from: Vivat Alty on November 17, 2016, 06:53:53 PM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 17, 2016, 06:35:59 PM
Haha, well, that's not generally how burden of proof in an argument works, but I understand what you're saying.

Pretty sure that's exactly how it works. You open the thread, your statements require proof. Am I wrong here? Have I been egregiously misinformed, people?

QuoteI wasn't asking for proof or evidence

You were claiming my point was hyperbole, I countered with evidence this is not so.

No, I don't think you've missed anything. It's just that when you argue with a SGiTR, you can't expect consistency of logical thought or any real level of competence in the topic at hand.

Just because I point out that the burden of proof is on someone else to justify a claim doesn't mean I care to hear it. Especially when that explanation is predictably asinine.

Hey, woah, that's not even what happened.
This is.
:fishhook:
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on November 18, 2016, 05:25:53 AM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 18, 2016, 04:41:59 AM
Hmmmm, I wonder... what possible political gain could come from wide-scale protests of the election of a man who ran on a platform heavily based in bigotry and xenophobia, and appointed a white nationalist organizer to his cabinet? Hmmmmm, I wonder.

They're assholes. My impression is that they're young and naive, predominantly white with upper-middle-class parents, and they get their news from Facebook. As I've already pointed out, many of them didn't even fucking vote, and here in my hometown, they demonstrated in a state that already voted the way they wanted it to. And being reminded of Hitler doesn't make them not assholes.

You want so hard for me to debate Trump with you, but I'm not going to do it. Trump has fuck-all to do with my point. I can't help it if you can't wrap your brain around that.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 18, 2016, 05:33:42 AM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 18, 2016, 05:08:14 AM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 18, 2016, 04:40:11 AM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 17, 2016, 05:46:04 PM

More specifically, people who immediately protest a systematically valid and uncontested presidential election are assholes.

I take it you just haven't bothered reading about the voter suppression issue, then, and also don't quite grasp the purpose of protests or what they can accomplish.

You seem to be saying that whoever loses should simply sit down and shut up, no matter what.

These people weren't protesting voter suppression, nor were they using that as an excuse for protesting a democratic vote. Fun fact: no data has been presented which has shown that "voter suppression" led to Trump's victory. There are a scant few news articles that have tried to run with that narrative, but if you're forming protests and vandalizing public property because of what you read in a news story, you're even more of an asshole than I originally claimed.

You're still rationalizing the most recent wave of protests. Rather than arguing against my original point, you're reinforcing it.

http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/why-anti-trump-protests-matter-w450561

QuoteHundreds of thousands of people, from New York City to Los Angeles, from Columbia, South Carolina to Salt Lake City, Utah took to the streets en masse to protest the election of a man who promised, among other things, to force Muslims to register and to repeal a health care bill that helps some 20 million people get health insurance, and who has been accused of sexual assault by at least 13 women. Hand-scrawled signs declared "Not My President," "No To Bigotry," "Trump Puts My Life In Danger," and "Protests Are Patriotic."

Gosh, what is it that these people are protesting, exactly?
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 18, 2016, 05:35:35 AM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 18, 2016, 05:25:53 AM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 18, 2016, 04:41:59 AM
Hmmmm, I wonder... what possible political gain could come from wide-scale protests of the election of a man who ran on a platform heavily based in bigotry and xenophobia, and appointed a white nationalist organizer to his cabinet? Hmmmmm, I wonder.

They're assholes. My impression is that they're young and naive, predominantly white with upper-middle-class parents, and they get their news from Facebook. As I've already pointed out, many of them didn't even fucking vote, and here in my hometown, they demonstrated in a state that already voted the way they wanted it to. And being reminded of Hitler doesn't make them not assholes.

You want so hard for me to debate Trump with you, but I'm not going to do it. Trump has fuck-all to do with my point. I can't help it if you can't wrap your brain around that.

More than 50% of the population voted, and voters are more likely to protest, so literally nothing you have to say is true. Plus you don't understand math.

:lol:

Trump is what people are protesting, so if you want to invalidate the protests you have to first prove that what they are protesting is not worthy of protest.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Salty on November 18, 2016, 05:39:20 AM
My God, if you would all only just realize the argument your presenting doesn't FIT into my false dichotomy. It's like you're not even Discordian.
                    /
:snob:
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 18, 2016, 05:42:11 AM
Quote from: Vivat Alty on November 18, 2016, 05:39:20 AM
My God, if you would all only just realize the argument your presenting doesn't FIT into my false dichotomy. It's like you're not even Discordian.
                    /
:snob:

The funniest part: he came to a web forum called literal actual Principia Discordia dot com expecting that he could just spit up a half-assed opinion and alllllll the Discordians would just agree with him.

Maybe even herald him as a visionary.

:lol:
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on November 18, 2016, 06:02:35 AM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 18, 2016, 05:35:35 AM
Trump is what people are protesting, so if you want to invalidate the protests you have to first prove that what they are protesting is not worthy of protest.

Did I say I wanted to invalidate the protests? No, I didn't. In fact, what I said in my second post was

QuoteAnd none of this is to downplay the role that protestors play; I just wish we weren't bullshitting ourselves and each other every time it happens. Instead of rationalizing and blanket-judging, I wish we could just step back and say, "Our asshole protestors are keeping your guy in check. When our guy is in office, your asshole protestors keep ours in check." None of this "our protestors are okay but yours were shit" kind of nonsense.

Just keep it real.

If you ignore or rationalize the asshole behavior of the current wave of protests but condemn and vilify the asshole behavior of protestors from 2008 and 2012, then you're the kind of person that I'm talking about.

I don't care what you think about Trump or his policies or this or that. None of that has anything to do with what I'm talking about. How many times do I have to repeat myself?
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 18, 2016, 06:09:42 AM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 18, 2016, 06:02:35 AM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 18, 2016, 05:35:35 AM
Trump is what people are protesting, so if you want to invalidate the protests you have to first prove that what they are protesting is not worthy of protest.

Did I say I wanted to invalidate the protests? No, I didn't. In fact, what I said in my second post was

QuoteAnd none of this is to downplay the role that protestors play; I just wish we weren't bullshitting ourselves and each other every time it happens. Instead of rationalizing and blanket-judging, I wish we could just step back and say, "Our asshole protestors are keeping your guy in check. When our guy is in office, your asshole protestors keep ours in check." None of this "our protestors are okay but yours were shit" kind of nonsense.

Just keep it real.

If you ignore or rationalize the asshole behavior of the current wave of protests but condemn and vilify the asshole behavior of protestors from 2008 and 2012, then you're the kind of person that I'm talking about.

I don't care what you think about Trump or his policies or this or that. None of that has anything to do with what I'm talking about. How many times do I have to repeat myself?

In order for your premise to be true, the context in which the events you are comparing have to be the same. The protests themselves also have to be substantively the same. You are making the assertion; therefore it is up to you to convincingly provide evidence that context and protests are substantively similar enough to be comparable relative to a dependent variable.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on November 18, 2016, 06:43:36 AM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 18, 2016, 06:09:42 AM
In order for your premise to be true, the context in which the events you are comparing have to be the same. The protests themselves also have to be substantively the same. You are making the assertion; therefore it is up to you to convincingly provide evidence that context and protests are substantively similar enough to be comparable relative to a dependent variable.

What premise?

I don't believe you understand what my argument actually is, despite the fact that I've stated it several times over.

It sounds as if you're trying to use logic to invalidate the impetus for my appeal, but I think you'd be hard-pressed to tell me exactly what validity-testing structure any of your "requirements" fits into.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Junkenstein on November 18, 2016, 11:43:20 AM
Does "quoting" "Terms" "Make" "My" "argument" "win" "yet"?
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on November 18, 2016, 11:47:34 AM
You know, guys, I think we could have wrapped this up page one...


Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on November 16, 2016, 10:57:37 PM
Eat seven dicks, new guy.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: LMNO on November 18, 2016, 02:00:35 PM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 18, 2016, 05:25:53 AM
They're assholes. My impression

Could you clarify how you came about this impression? 

Quoteis that they're young and naive, predominantly white with upper-middle-class parents, and they get their news from Facebook. As I've already pointed out, many of them didn't even fucking vote

:cn:



Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Cainad (dec.) on November 18, 2016, 02:08:49 PM
Quote from: LMNO on November 18, 2016, 02:00:35 PM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 18, 2016, 05:25:53 AM
They're assholes. My impression

Could you clarify how you came about this impression? 

Quoteis that they're young and naive, predominantly white with upper-middle-class parents, and they get their news from Facebook. As I've already pointed out, many of them didn't even fucking vote

:cn:

Gee, are they paid by George Soros too?

Nonwhites are more invisible than I thought, I guess.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on November 18, 2016, 03:36:39 PM
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on November 18, 2016, 11:47:34 AM
You know, guys, I think we could have wrapped this up page one...


Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on November 16, 2016, 10:57:37 PM
Eat seven dicks, new guy.

This is how we tomorrow.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 18, 2016, 03:43:37 PM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 18, 2016, 06:43:36 AM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 18, 2016, 06:09:42 AM
In order for your premise to be true, the context in which the events you are comparing have to be the same. The protests themselves also have to be substantively the same. You are making the assertion; therefore it is up to you to convincingly provide evidence that context and protests are substantively similar enough to be comparable relative to a dependent variable.

What premise?

I don't believe you understand what my argument actually is, despite the fact that I've stated it several times over.

It sounds as if you're trying to use logic to invalidate the impetus for my appeal, but I think you'd be hard-pressed to tell me exactly what validity-testing structure any of your "requirements" fits into.

I don't think YOU understand what your argument is, or you'd be able to state it clearly. So far you have argued that protesters are "assholes" and when pressed as to why, proposed that they are not protesting on valid grounds; proposed that there is sufficient parity between the circumstances of Trump's election and Obama's election that the protesters are comparable; proposed that the protesters in this case are fulfilling the same "balancing" role that right-wing protesters serve to keep the left in check; and claimed that parity is such that anyone who supports one set of protesters and not the other is a "hypocrite". Your goalposts keep moving and you can't wrote a cogent sentence to save your life, so pardon me if I missed any of your spurious claims that you refuse to back up by pretending you actually made *other* claims that you also can't clarify.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 18, 2016, 03:46:18 PM
Additionally, you keep making claims that are factually false and easy to disprove. It's like you don't even know how to look shit up to see whether your half-baked mental masturbation is on track with reality before typing up your deep thoughts and posting them for people to make fun of.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 18, 2016, 03:47:28 PM
I'm surprised you haven't flooded this conversation with zerohedge links.  :lulz:
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Junkenstein on November 18, 2016, 03:49:32 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 18, 2016, 03:47:28 PM
I'm surprised you haven't flooded this conversation with zerohedge links.  :lulz:

Starting slow, expect breitbart or RT links first.

Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on November 18, 2016, 04:04:20 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on November 18, 2016, 03:49:32 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 18, 2016, 03:47:28 PM
I'm surprised you haven't flooded this conversation with zerohedge links.  :lulz:

Starting slow, expect breitbart or RT links first.

Reason Magazine.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 18, 2016, 04:04:25 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on November 18, 2016, 03:49:32 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 18, 2016, 03:47:28 PM
I'm surprised you haven't flooded this conversation with zerohedge links.  :lulz:

Starting slow, expect breitbart or RT links first.

Point.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on November 18, 2016, 04:37:50 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 18, 2016, 05:42:11 AM
Quote from: Vivat Alty on November 18, 2016, 05:39:20 AM
My God, if you would all only just realize the argument your presenting doesn't FIT into my false dichotomy. It's like you're not even Discordian.
                    /
:snob:

The funniest part: he came to a web forum called literal actual Principia Discordia dot com expecting that he could just spit up a half-assed opinion and alllllll the Discordians would just agree with him.

Maybe even herald him as a visionary.

:lol:

The problem isn't that you don't agree with him, it's that you all seem to agree with each other, in an unquestioning yes-man-like fashion
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 18, 2016, 04:45:28 PM
Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on November 18, 2016, 04:37:50 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 18, 2016, 05:42:11 AM
Quote from: Vivat Alty on November 18, 2016, 05:39:20 AM
My God, if you would all only just realize the argument your presenting doesn't FIT into my false dichotomy. It's like you're not even Discordian.
                    /
:snob:

The funniest part: he came to a web forum called literal actual Principia Discordia dot com expecting that he could just spit up a half-assed opinion and alllllll the Discordians would just agree with him.

Maybe even herald him as a visionary.

:lol:

The problem isn't that you don't agree with him, it's that you all seem to agree with each other, in an unquestioning yes-man-like fashion

It's creepy, sort of like how scientists all seem to agree with each other about climate change. Just so obviously nothing more than an echo chamber.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Salty on November 18, 2016, 04:51:33 PM
You know something, I just realized, Trump doesn't HAVE a little mustache. I can't believe it but it looks like I was wrong. There are no similarities. Trump also doesn't even paint, so I don't know what I was thinking.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on November 18, 2016, 04:52:29 PM
Let me be more specific. I'm complaining about the fact that you mindlessly agree with each other on matters of opinion.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Salty on November 18, 2016, 04:53:16 PM
Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on November 18, 2016, 04:52:29 PM
Let me be more specific. I'm complaining about the fact that you mindlessly agree with each other on matters of opinion.

RE bolded: So what?
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 18, 2016, 04:53:42 PM
I mean, it can't possibly be that much of a cognitive stretch to comprehend why we would all be in agreement that a Trump presidency is a threat to our civil liberties, right?

But then, you are talking about a person who doesn't think that Trump appointing an actual white nationalist propagandist to his cabinet constitutes a real connection with white nationalism, so...
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: LMNO on November 18, 2016, 04:54:53 PM
Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on November 18, 2016, 04:52:29 PM
Let me be more specific. I'm complaining about the fact that you mindlessly agree with each other on matters of opinion.

Do you even READ this board?

The fact that people are agreeing on this should underscore its import, if anything.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Salty on November 18, 2016, 05:02:35 PM
Quote from: Vivat Alty on November 18, 2016, 04:53:16 PM
Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on November 18, 2016, 04:52:29 PM
Let me be more specific. I'm complaining about the fact that you mindlessly agree with each other on matters of opinion.

RE bolded: So what?

I mean, I can't see why I, or anyone else, should give a shit about your complaints or opinions. They're hardly medically necessary.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Junkenstein on November 18, 2016, 05:30:35 PM
Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on November 18, 2016, 04:52:29 PM
Let me be more specific. I'm complaining about the fact that you mindlessly agree with each other on matters of opinion.

Are you upset that no-one is agreeing with your opinion or that we bother arguing about facts?

Please address your concerns to the usual authorities and they'll quickly give even less of a shit than I do.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Salty on November 18, 2016, 05:30:54 PM
Quote from: LMNO on November 18, 2016, 04:54:53 PM
Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on November 18, 2016, 04:52:29 PM
Let me be more specific. I'm complaining about the fact that you mindlessly agree with each other on matters of opinion.

Do you even READ this board?

The fact that people are agreeing on this should underscore its import, if anything.

Yeah, that's probably the thing that irks me most about shit like the OP, or anyone who comes to this board with the OMGHIVEMIND mentality. Some of us can barely stand each other, some of us outright dislike each other, but almost all of us can have a decent, heated conversation despite that. Maybe because of that.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on November 18, 2016, 06:00:09 PM
Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on November 18, 2016, 04:52:29 PM
Let me be more specific. I'm complaining about the fact that you mindlessly agree with each other on matters of opinion.

Where exactly do you think you are?   :lulz:

We can't agree on anything except that the majority of us seem to be anti-fascist.  But we can't even get along well enough to put our heads together about actual fascism making an appearance.



Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 18, 2016, 08:07:50 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on November 18, 2016, 11:43:20 AM
Does "quoting" "Terms" "Make" "My" "argument" "win" "yet"?

:lulz:
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Pergamos on November 18, 2016, 08:28:58 PM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 18, 2016, 06:02:35 AM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 18, 2016, 05:35:35 AM
Trump is what people are protesting, so if you want to invalidate the protests you have to first prove that what they are protesting is not worthy of protest.

Did I say I wanted to invalidate the protests? No, I didn't. In fact, what I said in my second post was

QuoteAnd none of this is to downplay the role that protestors play; I just wish we weren't bullshitting ourselves and each other every time it happens. Instead of rationalizing and blanket-judging, I wish we could just step back and say, "Our asshole protestors are keeping your guy in check. When our guy is in office, your asshole protestors keep ours in check." None of this "our protestors are okay but yours were shit" kind of nonsense.

Just keep it real.

If you ignore or rationalize the asshole behavior of the current wave of protests but condemn and vilify the asshole behavior of protestors from 2008 and 2012, then you're the kind of person that I'm talking about.

I don't care what you think about Trump or his policies or this or that. None of that has anything to do with what I'm talking about. How many times do I have to repeat myself?

The behavior in 2008 and 2012 was not ok because what they were protesting did not merit the behavior
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on November 18, 2016, 09:15:50 PM
Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on November 18, 2016, 04:52:29 PM
Let me be more specific. I'm complaining about the fact that you mindlessly agree with each other on matters of opinion.

I think you've said it better than I could. I hate to use the term hivemind, but I think it's appropriate. Rather than examining and being critical of the arguments presented by people who think as we do, enough of us are taking solace in the fact that our predispositions are aligned.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on November 18, 2016, 09:18:27 PM
Quote from: LMNO on November 18, 2016, 04:54:53 PM
The fact that people are agreeing on this should underscore its import, if anything.

It underscores that people who identify as Discordian are probably largely left-wing radicals, and that ideology is stronger than reason. I'm not saying that's a bad thing necessarily, but it's obviously a challenge if you identify as a Discordian and do not consider yourself part of the left or the right.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Salty on November 18, 2016, 09:21:10 PM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 18, 2016, 09:15:50 PM
Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on November 18, 2016, 04:52:29 PM
Let me be more specific. I'm complaining about the fact that you mindlessly agree with each other on matters of opinion.

I think you've said it better than I could. I hate to use the term hivemind, but I think it's appropriate. Rather than examining and being critical of the arguments presented by people who think as we do, enough of us are taking solace in the fact that our predispositions are aligned.

1. Yeah, you and PDS will probably get along REAL well.

2. Hivemind makes me start to think you all about the BINGO game and you're just playing along.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on November 18, 2016, 09:28:11 PM
Quote from: Pergamos on November 18, 2016, 08:28:58 PM
The behavior in 2008 and 2012 was not ok because what they were protesting did not merit the behavior

Thank you for returning to the actual discussion I was attempting to have!

So - I'm assuming that you identify as left/Democrat/liberal. The people who currently identify as right/Republican/conservative are saying the exact same thing about the most recent wave of protests. They honestly believe that the 2016 protestors are unjustified.

I believe that they're all unjustified. Sort of.

As I said before, protestors play an important role. Maybe I should go so far as to say that they play an extremely important role, but that doesn't change the fact that it takes a bunch of assholes to fill that role.

When I say that "protestors are assholes", I'm not only saying that "liberal protestors are assholes". I hope that's clear. What I'm saying is that we either rationalize or demonize their behavior depending on which side we're on and which side is doing it.

People are mistaking this for a false-equivalency argument. Obviously people on the left are going to think that the beliefs of the right are invalid, and people on the right are going to think that the beliefs of the left are invalid. My argument says nothing about the validity of beliefs. It doesn't need to.

The fact of the matter is that left and right exist. The fact that the right now has majority in every major branch of government should make that obvious. You might think that they don't have valid beliefs, but they're clearly a force to be reckoned with.

Nobody is going to reckon with that force by being blind to the fact that most of the people who support them are basically reasonable. If you approach reasonable people with an unreasonable attitude, they're going to tell you to fuck-off.

Is any of this making sense? Does anyone understand where I'm going with it?
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on November 18, 2016, 09:28:36 PM
Quote from: Vivat Alty on November 18, 2016, 09:21:10 PM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 18, 2016, 09:15:50 PM
Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on November 18, 2016, 04:52:29 PM
Let me be more specific. I'm complaining about the fact that you mindlessly agree with each other on matters of opinion.

I think you've said it better than I could. I hate to use the term hivemind, but I think it's appropriate. Rather than examining and being critical of the arguments presented by people who think as we do, enough of us are taking solace in the fact that our predispositions are aligned.

1. Yeah, you and PDS will probably get along REAL well.

2. Hivemind makes me start to think you all about the BINGO game and you're just playing along.

Welcome to my ignore list, friend.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Salty on November 18, 2016, 09:29:18 PM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 18, 2016, 09:28:36 PM
Quote from: Vivat Alty on November 18, 2016, 09:21:10 PM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 18, 2016, 09:15:50 PM
Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on November 18, 2016, 04:52:29 PM
Let me be more specific. I'm complaining about the fact that you mindlessly agree with each other on matters of opinion.

I think you've said it better than I could. I hate to use the term hivemind, but I think it's appropriate. Rather than examining and being critical of the arguments presented by people who think as we do, enough of us are taking solace in the fact that our predispositions are aligned.

1. Yeah, you and PDS will probably get along REAL well.

2. Hivemind makes me start to think you all about the BINGO game and you're just playing along.

Welcome to my ignore list, friend.

A single tear rolls down my cheek.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Pergamos on November 18, 2016, 09:36:52 PM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 18, 2016, 09:28:11 PM
Quote from: Pergamos on November 18, 2016, 08:28:58 PM
The behavior in 2008 and 2012 was not ok because what they were protesting did not merit the behavior

Thank you for returning to the actual discussion I was attempting to have!

So - I'm assuming that you identify as left/Democrat/liberal. The people who currently identify as right/Republican/conservative are saying the exact same thing about the most recent wave of protests. They honestly believe that the 2016 protestors are unjustified.

I believe that they're all unjustified. Sort of.

As I said before, protestors play an important role. Maybe I should go so far as to say that they play an extremely important role, but that doesn't change the fact that it takes a bunch of assholes to fill that role.

When I say that "protestors are assholes", I'm not only saying that "liberal protestors are assholes". I hope that's clear. What I'm saying is that we either rationalize or demonize their behavior depending on which side we're on and which side is doing it.

People are mistaking this for a false-equivalency argument. Obviously people on the left are going to think that the beliefs of the right are invalid, and people on the right are going to think that the beliefs of the left are invalid. My argument says nothing about the validity of beliefs. It doesn't need to.

The fact of the matter is that left and right exist. The fact that the right now has majority in every major branch of government should make that obvious. You might think that they don't have valid beliefs, but they're clearly a force to be reckoned with.

Nobody is going to reckon with that force by being blind to the fact that most of the people who support them are basically reasonable. If you approach reasonable people with an unreasonable attitude, they're going to tell you to fuck-off.

Is any of this making sense? Does anyone understand where I'm going with it?

Obstructing traffic because a black man is president makes you an asshole.  Obstructing traffic because a white supremacist is does not.  Get the point yet?  It's not just about the actions, it's about the reasons for the actions.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 18, 2016, 09:39:14 PM
OP reminds me of something.

https://extranewsfeed.com/opinion-im-not-a-bigot-i-just-don-t-care-about-minorities-d570f855c9b8#.8e2jkpc3v

Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on November 18, 2016, 09:43:21 PM
Quote from: Pergamos on November 18, 2016, 09:36:52 PM
Obstructing traffic because a black man is president makes you an asshole.  Obstructing traffic because a white supremacist is does not.  Get the point yet?  It's not just about the actions, it's about the reasons for the actions.

Thank you for helping to prove my point, but this has nothing to do with the legitimacy of one side vs the legitimacy of the other. Did I do a poor job of explaining that?
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Junkenstein on November 18, 2016, 09:45:15 PM
You're doing a poor job of being a human fucking being in general.

The monkey is strong in this one.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on November 18, 2016, 09:48:09 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on November 18, 2016, 09:45:15 PM
You're doing a poor job of being a human fucking being in general.

The monkey is strong in this one.

Aaaaaaand welcome to my ignore list. You earned it after all.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on November 18, 2016, 09:50:29 PM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 18, 2016, 09:48:09 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on November 18, 2016, 09:45:15 PM
You're doing a poor job of being a human fucking being in general.

The monkey is strong in this one.

Aaaaaaand welcome to my ignore list. You earned it after all.

You're gonna go far, kid.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on November 18, 2016, 09:51:29 PM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 18, 2016, 09:15:50 PM
hate to use the term hivemind, but I think it's appropriate.

*gets the checklist out*
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Junkenstein on November 18, 2016, 09:55:42 PM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 18, 2016, 09:48:09 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on November 18, 2016, 09:45:15 PM
You're doing a poor job of being a human fucking being in general.

The monkey is strong in this one.

Aaaaaaand welcome to my ignore list. You earned it after all.

I join Vivat, weeping softly in the corner over my loss.

My life has been ripped of meaning. All my accomplishments now count for naught. I am left with a hollow ache that can never be fixed.

And you're still an asshole.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Junkenstein on November 18, 2016, 09:56:17 PM
(http://www.name-list.net/img/portrait/Gandi_1.jpg)

ASSHOLE
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Junkenstein on November 18, 2016, 09:56:54 PM
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/45/Emmeline_Pankhurst_adresses_crowd.jpg)

ASSHOLETTE
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Pergamos on November 18, 2016, 10:02:33 PM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 18, 2016, 09:43:21 PM
Quote from: Pergamos on November 18, 2016, 09:36:52 PM
Obstructing traffic because a black man is president makes you an asshole.  Obstructing traffic because a white supremacist is does not.  Get the point yet?  It's not just about the actions, it's about the reasons for the actions.

Thank you for helping to prove my point, but this has nothing to do with the legitimacy of one side vs the legitimacy of the other. Did I do a poor job of explaining that?

Apparently.  So you do not think motives matter?  So if I shove you I am an asshole, regardless of if I shoved you to move you in front of or out of the way of a speeding car?
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on November 18, 2016, 10:13:53 PM
Quote from: Pergamos on November 18, 2016, 10:02:33 PM
So you do not think motives matter?  So if I shove you I am an asshole, regardless of if I shoved you to move you in front of or out of the way of a speeding car?

If you believed that you were shoving me out of the way of a moving car when, in fact, I was in no danger, then yes - you'd be an asshole; though I might forgive you for doing what you genuinely thought was right.

If you can't extend that kind of forgiveness across ideological boundaries, you're buying into the illusion that we don't live in a state of duality with actual, real people on both sides. Either that, or you're seeing that duality as good and evil, which I think is also a mistake since plenty of people on both sides do just that. It's dehumanizing and it's hypocritical.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on November 18, 2016, 10:15:28 PM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 18, 2016, 10:13:53 PM
Quote from: Pergamos on November 18, 2016, 10:02:33 PM
So you do not think motives matter?  So if I shove you I am an asshole, regardless of if I shoved you to move you in front of or out of the way of a speeding car?

If you believed that you were shoving me out of the way of a moving car when, in fact, I was in no danger, then yes - you'd be an asshole; though I might forgive you for doing what you genuinely thought was right.

If you can't extend that kind of forgiveness across ideological boundaries, you're buying into the illusion that we don't live in a state of duality. Either that, or you're seeing that duality as good and evil, which I think is also a mistake since plenty of people on both sides do just that.

So what you're saying is, "evil people don't actually exist"?
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on November 18, 2016, 10:17:04 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 18, 2016, 10:15:28 PM
So what you're saying is, "evil people don't actually exist"?

I'm saying what I said, not what you're saying I said.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on November 18, 2016, 10:17:52 PM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 18, 2016, 10:17:04 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 18, 2016, 10:15:28 PM
So what you're saying is, "evil people don't actually exist"?

I'm saying what I said, not what you're saying I said.

Well, so much for being civil and asking for clarification.

Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Junkenstein on November 18, 2016, 10:21:08 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 18, 2016, 10:17:52 PM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 18, 2016, 10:17:04 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 18, 2016, 10:15:28 PM
So what you're saying is, "evil people don't actually exist"?

I'm saying what I said, not what you're saying I said.

Well, so much for being civil and asking for clarification.

What did we learn today uncle roger?
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on November 18, 2016, 10:21:38 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 18, 2016, 10:17:52 PM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 18, 2016, 10:17:04 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 18, 2016, 10:15:28 PM
So what you're saying is, "evil people don't actually exist"?

I'm saying what I said, not what you're saying I said.

Well, so much for being civil and asking for clarification.

You weren't asking for clarification, you were asking me to confirm whether or not the words you were putting in my mouth were true. Your question assumed a distortion and oversimplification of my point. You want genuine answers? Ask a genuine question.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Pergamos on November 18, 2016, 10:23:30 PM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 18, 2016, 10:13:53 PM
Quote from: Pergamos on November 18, 2016, 10:02:33 PM
So you do not think motives matter?  So if I shove you I am an asshole, regardless of if I shoved you to move you in front of or out of the way of a speeding car?

If you believed that you were shoving me out of the way of a moving car when, in fact, I was in no danger, then yes - you'd be an asshole; though I might forgive you for doing what you genuinely thought was right.

If you can't extend that kind of forgiveness across ideological boundaries, you're buying into the illusion that we don't live in a state of duality with actual, real people on both sides. Either that, or you're seeing that duality as good and evil, which I think is also a mistake since plenty of people on both sides do just that. It's dehumanizing and it's hypocritical.

So you are asserting that the people protesting Trump are wrong about the threat that he poses.  You keep insisting that you are not debating that though.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: LMNO on November 18, 2016, 10:24:03 PM
Quick question: when Obama was elected, what civil rights did the Republican voter think would be taken away under his administration?

Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on November 18, 2016, 10:24:44 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/vAJw6cD.png)
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on November 18, 2016, 10:27:23 PM
Quote from: Pergamos on November 18, 2016, 10:23:30 PM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 18, 2016, 10:13:53 PM
Quote from: Pergamos on November 18, 2016, 10:02:33 PM
So you do not think motives matter?  So if I shove you I am an asshole, regardless of if I shoved you to move you in front of or out of the way of a speeding car?

If you believed that you were shoving me out of the way of a moving car when, in fact, I was in no danger, then yes - you'd be an asshole; though I might forgive you for doing what you genuinely thought was right.

If you can't extend that kind of forgiveness across ideological boundaries, you're buying into the illusion that we don't live in a state of duality with actual, real people on both sides. Either that, or you're seeing that duality as good and evil, which I think is also a mistake since plenty of people on both sides do just that. It's dehumanizing and it's hypocritical.

So you are asserting that the people protesting Trump are wrong about the threat that he poses.  You keep insisting that you are not debating that though.

No, I'm making assertions about the nature of belief.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on November 18, 2016, 10:31:59 PM
Quote from: LMNO on November 18, 2016, 10:24:03 PM
Quick question: when Obama was elected, what civil rights did the Republican voter think would be taken away under his administration?

I don't think anyone in this thread - including myself - could provide you with an adequate answer to that question. Regardless, you have two choices:
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Junkenstein on November 18, 2016, 10:34:02 PM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 18, 2016, 10:31:59 PM
Quote from: LMNO on November 18, 2016, 10:24:03 PM
Quick question: when Obama was elected, what civil rights did the Republican voter think would be taken away under his administration?

I don't think anyone in this thread - including myself - could provide you with an adequate answer to that question. Regardless, you have two choices:

  • Accept that no matter how much you might disagree with their concerns, they honestly believed in what they were afraid of
  • Assume that they were all racist, stupid assholes who would say anything to avoid admitting it

Impressively stupid. Do continue.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on November 18, 2016, 10:37:04 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on November 18, 2016, 10:34:02 PM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 18, 2016, 10:31:59 PM
Quote from: LMNO on November 18, 2016, 10:24:03 PM
Quick question: when Obama was elected, what civil rights did the Republican voter think would be taken away under his administration?

I don't think anyone in this thread - including myself - could provide you with an adequate answer to that question. Regardless, you have two choices:

  • Accept that no matter how much you might disagree with their concerns, they honestly believed in what they were afraid of
  • Assume that they were all racist, stupid assholes who would say anything to avoid admitting it

Impressively stupid. Do continue.

THAT we can be sure of. Troll on a roll.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Pergamos on November 18, 2016, 10:40:00 PM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 18, 2016, 10:27:23 PM
Quote from: Pergamos on November 18, 2016, 10:23:30 PM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 18, 2016, 10:13:53 PM
Quote from: Pergamos on November 18, 2016, 10:02:33 PM
So you do not think motives matter?  So if I shove you I am an asshole, regardless of if I shoved you to move you in front of or out of the way of a speeding car?

If you believed that you were shoving me out of the way of a moving car when, in fact, I was in no danger, then yes - you'd be an asshole; though I might forgive you for doing what you genuinely thought was right.

If you can't extend that kind of forgiveness across ideological boundaries, you're buying into the illusion that we don't live in a state of duality with actual, real people on both sides. Either that, or you're seeing that duality as good and evil, which I think is also a mistake since plenty of people on both sides do just that. It's dehumanizing and it's hypocritical.

So you are asserting that the people protesting Trump are wrong about the threat that he poses.  You keep insisting that you are not debating that though.

No, I'm making assertions about the nature of belief.

You start the thread by calling them assholes.  But if a car is really for real going to hit you and I shove you out of the way, then I am not being an asshole.  So if Trump is really for real a threat to the nation, including the people in the cars they are disrupting the traffic of, then they are also not assholes.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: LMNO on November 18, 2016, 10:44:52 PM
Is your point that all beliefs have an equal value, regardless of objective truth?
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on November 18, 2016, 10:45:54 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on November 18, 2016, 10:21:08 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 18, 2016, 10:17:52 PM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 18, 2016, 10:17:04 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 18, 2016, 10:15:28 PM
So what you're saying is, "evil people don't actually exist"?

I'm saying what I said, not what you're saying I said.

Well, so much for being civil and asking for clarification.

What did we learn today uncle roger?

That I should stick to what I know.   :lulz:
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on November 18, 2016, 10:47:50 PM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 18, 2016, 10:21:38 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 18, 2016, 10:17:52 PM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 18, 2016, 10:17:04 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 18, 2016, 10:15:28 PM
So what you're saying is, "evil people don't actually exist"?

I'm saying what I said, not what you're saying I said.

Well, so much for being civil and asking for clarification.

You weren't asking for clarification, you were asking me to confirm whether or not the words you were putting in my mouth were true. Your question assumed a distortion and oversimplification of my point. You want genuine answers? Ask a genuine question.

But it WAS in the form of a question, given that your statement made no sense at all in any other context.

Do you actually have beliefs?  I mean, beliefs worth protesting for, specifically?
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on November 18, 2016, 11:00:41 PM
Quote from: Pergamos on November 18, 2016, 10:40:00 PM
You start the thread by calling them assholes.  But if a car is really for real going to hit you and I shove you out of the way, then I am not being an asshole.  So if Trump is really for real a threat to the nation, including the people in the cars they are disrupting the traffic of, then they are also not assholes.

And if Obama was really a threat to the nation, then the Republicans were justified in obstructing him.

Do you see how this works yet? I think it's a lot easier to just admit that everyone is an asshole. If we can just agree that we're all assholes, then we've got some common ground on which to build a foundation for cooperation.

Probably not, but it sounds nice.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on November 18, 2016, 11:14:15 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 18, 2016, 10:47:50 PM
But it WAS in the form of a question

A lizard in the form of a human is still just a lizard.

If your question was legitimate, you'd have rephrased it. Your question was an attempt to undermine my argument. A poor one. Move along. These are not the droids you're looking for.

Quote
Do you actually have beliefs?

I have a strong belief that it is a mistake to have strong beliefs.

Quote
I mean, beliefs worth protesting for, specifically?

Yes. I've made a sign. Would you like to see it?

(http://i.imgur.com/HGovpgT.jpg)
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on November 18, 2016, 11:18:52 PM
It needs to be kept in mind that Trump was not democratically elected. He lost the popular vote but won because of the electoral college. For this reason the protesters decrying this election are far more justified than the protesters against other previous elections where the winner was democratically elected.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Junkenstein on November 18, 2016, 11:23:55 PM
Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on November 18, 2016, 11:18:52 PM
It needs to be kept in mind that Trump was not democratically elected. He lost the popular vote but won because of the electoral college. For this reason the protesters decrying this election are far more justified than the protesters against other previous elections where the winner was democratically elected.

Just like john Kerry and Al gore.

Google. It's useful.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Pergamos on November 18, 2016, 11:31:56 PM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 18, 2016, 11:00:41 PM
Quote from: Pergamos on November 18, 2016, 10:40:00 PM
You start the thread by calling them assholes.  But if a car is really for real going to hit you and I shove you out of the way, then I am not being an asshole.  So if Trump is really for real a threat to the nation, including the people in the cars they are disrupting the traffic of, then they are also not assholes.

And if Obama was really a threat to the nation, then the Republicans were justified in obstructing him.

Do you see how this works yet? I think it's a lot easier to just admit that everyone is an asshole. If we can just agree that we're all assholes, then we've got some common ground on which to build a foundation for cooperation.

Probably not, but it sounds nice.

It turns out they were wrong, since the nation is doing better than it was.  So they are in fact assholes.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: QueenThera on November 18, 2016, 11:57:50 PM
if everyone is an asshole, then asshole just means human, and can be discarded as a word. There's no point to using it.

If asshole can vary in degree, then maybe it would make sense to compare asshole levels.

Someone who wants to bring back torture, kill civilians, and insists nothing is wrong with our policing system in this country, is a GIANT asshole, who does not equal a person who fought for universal healthcare.

I protest against giant assholes. I refuse to let a giant asshole be considered NORMAL. That's what the asshole WANTS. FUCK THAT ASSHOLE.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on November 19, 2016, 12:22:26 AM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 18, 2016, 11:14:15 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 18, 2016, 10:47:50 PM
But it WAS in the form of a question

A lizard in the form of a human is still just a lizard.

If your question was legitimate, you'd have rephrased it. Your question was an attempt to undermine my argument. A poor one. Move along. These are not the droids you're looking for.

Quote
Do you actually have beliefs?

I have a strong belief that it is a mistake to have strong beliefs.

Quote
I mean, beliefs worth protesting for, specifically?

Yes. I've made a sign. Would you like to see it?

(http://i.imgur.com/HGovpgT.jpg)

So you're a nihilist.  Boring.  :boring:
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on November 19, 2016, 01:50:58 AM
I know Bush wasn't elected entirely on the up-and-up either, that's why I didn;t say "all" previous elections.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Ben Shapiro on November 19, 2016, 02:40:09 AM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 16, 2016, 10:23:36 PM
As someone who clearly remembers the inane fearmongering that was rampant among demonstrators just before Obama took office, I can absolutely say that the more important things to acknowledge are those which both groups have in common, rather than focusing on the subtle, irrelevant differences.

Every time we have a presidential election, these people come out in a full force of dehumanizing hypocrisy, carrying the message that if democracy isn't on their side this particular time, then it must be broken and the rules no longer apply to them. Then the people towards the middle either rationalize their legitimacy if they're on the same team or lambast the entire ideology if they aren't.

I'm fucking tired of it. Protestors are assholes.

Not to deny that sometimes it takes an asshole to get things done (Trump voters obviously think so), but can we stop pretending that these people are an exception to the rules just because we happen to support the same party? Can we at least just admit that they're being assholes?

Many of them didn't even vote. (http://www.kgw.com/news/local/more-than-half-of-arrested-anti-trump-protesters-didnt-vote/351964445) They seem to think that because they only care about one set of issues (http://www.richmond.com/news/local/city-of-richmond/article_00e85d51-4b55-5320-9cde-89b6d99f5579.html) in the presidential election that everyone who voted the other way must have done so in order to undermine those particular issues. And don't get me started on character-assassination. Why are the assholes who rave about Donald Trump being a womanizer perfectly fine with the idea of the first First Gentleman being Bill Clinton?

The moderate liberals are looking the other way, just like the moderate conservatives looked the other way when the other set of assholes did the same thing in 2008 and 2012.

Do you think Trump cares about kids smoking pot? I do! I hope Trump continues to fund me in stopping one of America's domestic threats.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on November 19, 2016, 03:36:28 AM
Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on November 18, 2016, 11:18:52 PM
It needs to be kept in mind that Trump was not democratically elected. He lost the popular vote but won because of the electoral college. For this reason the protesters decrying this election are far more justified than the protesters against other previous elections where the winner was democratically elected.

It's not a system of direct democracy, but it is democratic in the sense that it's the people who decide. It's just a matter of how those people are concentrated.

I don't think popular vote legitimizes a protest, nor does the loss of a popular vote delegitimize one. After all, the system exists in order to avoid the real-world equivalent of argumentum ad populum (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum) in presidential elections.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on November 19, 2016, 03:42:05 AM
Quote from: LMNO on November 18, 2016, 10:44:52 PM
Is your point that all beliefs have an equal value, regardless of objective truth?

No, that is not my point.

My point (and this is predominantly limited to U.S. politics but may be otherwise applicable) is that regardless of the objective truth, there is no difference to an outsider between the methods employed by the two major bodies of people who make very different claims about what the truth is. The more people are different, the more they are the same.

My point is that despite which side any given person thinks has a better grasp on the "objective truth", both sides exist and the pendulum of power swings back and forth between them. That isn't to say that the pendulum swings equally; whether or not it does is a different (but related) discussion.

If people don't see things as they are but instead cling to the way they think things ought to be, they live in ignorance. Politics becomes more polarized as both sides demonize each other for bad behaviors and defend their own for the same bad behaviors.

My appeal - despite that I know it almost certainly falls on deaf ears - is for people to stop lying to themselves and each other.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on November 19, 2016, 03:43:43 AM
Quote from: BrotherPrickle on November 18, 2016, 11:57:50 PM
if everyone is an asshole, then asshole just means human, and can be discarded as a word. There's no point to using it.

I disagree. To admit that we're all assholes is to say that we're doing things the wrong way. To admit that we're all assholes is to recognize that we need to stop being assholes, and start being human again.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on November 19, 2016, 03:53:03 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 19, 2016, 12:22:26 AM
So you're a nihilist.

No, I'm a Discordian, an existentialist, and a radical centrist. I'm also a caricaturist; I do wedding receptions, birthday parties, and funerals.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on November 19, 2016, 04:14:18 AM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 19, 2016, 03:42:05 AM
Quote from: LMNO on November 18, 2016, 10:44:52 PM
Is your point that all beliefs have an equal value, regardless of objective truth?

No, that is not my point.

My point (and this is predominantly limited to U.S. politics but may be otherwise applicable) is that regardless of the objective truth, there is no difference to an outsider between the methods employed by the two major bodies of people who make very different claims about what the truth is. The more people are different, the more they are the same.

My point is that despite which side any given person thinks has a better grasp on the "objective truth", both sides exist and the pendulum of power swings back and forth between them. That isn't to say that the pendulum swings equally; whether or not it does is a different (but related) discussion.

If people don't see things as they are but instead cling to the way they think things ought to be, they live in ignorance. Politics becomes more polarized as both sides demonize each other for bad behaviors and defend their own for the same bad behaviors.

My appeal - despite that I know it almost certainly falls on deaf ears - is for people to stop lying to themselves and each other.

It must be difficult, being the only conscious person in the world.   :lulz:
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on November 19, 2016, 04:27:39 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 19, 2016, 04:14:18 AM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 19, 2016, 03:42:05 AM
Quote from: LMNO on November 18, 2016, 10:44:52 PM
Is your point that all beliefs have an equal value, regardless of objective truth?

No, that is not my point.

My point (and this is predominantly limited to U.S. politics but may be otherwise applicable) is that regardless of the objective truth, there is no difference to an outsider between the methods employed by the two major bodies of people who make very different claims about what the truth is. The more people are different, the more they are the same.

My point is that despite which side any given person thinks has a better grasp on the "objective truth", both sides exist and the pendulum of power swings back and forth between them. That isn't to say that the pendulum swings equally; whether or not it does is a different (but related) discussion.

If people don't see things as they are but instead cling to the way they think things ought to be, they live in ignorance. Politics becomes more polarized as both sides demonize each other for bad behaviors and defend their own for the same bad behaviors.

My appeal - despite that I know it almost certainly falls on deaf ears - is for people to stop lying to themselves and each other.

It must be difficult, being the only conscious person in the world.   :lulz:

It must be difficult being in my ignore list. Oh, wait, you aren't. Time to fix that.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: LMNO on November 19, 2016, 04:36:56 AM
I can't wait until you've blocked yourself off of PD, functionally.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 19, 2016, 04:48:30 AM
Quote from: LMNO on November 19, 2016, 04:36:56 AM
I can't wait until you've blocked yourself off of PD, functionally.

BLOCKED.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on November 19, 2016, 05:55:58 AM
Quote from: LMNO on November 19, 2016, 04:36:56 AM
I can't wait until you've blocked yourself off of PD, functionally.

Nothing could be more Discordian.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on November 19, 2016, 06:29:08 AM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 19, 2016, 04:27:39 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 19, 2016, 04:14:18 AM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 19, 2016, 03:42:05 AM
Quote from: LMNO on November 18, 2016, 10:44:52 PM
Is your point that all beliefs have an equal value, regardless of objective truth?

No, that is not my point.

My point (and this is predominantly limited to U.S. politics but may be otherwise applicable) is that regardless of the objective truth, there is no difference to an outsider between the methods employed by the two major bodies of people who make very different claims about what the truth is. The more people are different, the more they are the same.

My point is that despite which side any given person thinks has a better grasp on the "objective truth", both sides exist and the pendulum of power swings back and forth between them. That isn't to say that the pendulum swings equally; whether or not it does is a different (but related) discussion.

If people don't see things as they are but instead cling to the way they think things ought to be, they live in ignorance. Politics becomes more polarized as both sides demonize each other for bad behaviors and defend their own for the same bad behaviors.

My appeal - despite that I know it almost certainly falls on deaf ears - is for people to stop lying to themselves and each other.

It must be difficult, being the only conscious person in the world.   :lulz:

It must be difficult being in my ignore list. Oh, wait, you aren't. Time to fix that.

Let me know how that works out.   :lulz:

I'm an admin, you can't block me.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Ben Shapiro on November 19, 2016, 11:28:52 AM
Quote from: LMNO on November 19, 2016, 04:36:56 AM
I can't wait until you've blocked yourself off of PD, functionally.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Junkenstein on November 19, 2016, 03:31:12 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 19, 2016, 06:29:08 AM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 19, 2016, 04:27:39 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 19, 2016, 04:14:18 AM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 19, 2016, 03:42:05 AM
Quote from: LMNO on November 18, 2016, 10:44:52 PM
Is your point that all beliefs have an equal value, regardless of objective truth?

No, that is not my point.

My point (and this is predominantly limited to U.S. politics but may be otherwise applicable) is that regardless of the objective truth, there is no difference to an outsider between the methods employed by the two major bodies of people who make very different claims about what the truth is. The more people are different, the more they are the same.

My point is that despite which side any given person thinks has a better grasp on the "objective truth", both sides exist and the pendulum of power swings back and forth between them. That isn't to say that the pendulum swings equally; whether or not it does is a different (but related) discussion.

If people don't see things as they are but instead cling to the way they think things ought to be, they live in ignorance. Politics becomes more polarized as both sides demonize each other for bad behaviors and defend their own for the same bad behaviors.

My appeal - despite that I know it almost certainly falls on deaf ears - is for people to stop lying to themselves and each other.

It must be difficult, being the only conscious person in the world.   :lulz:

It must be difficult being in my ignore list. Oh, wait, you aren't. Time to fix that.

Let me know how that works out.   :lulz:

I'm an admin, you can't block me.

Does that mean if you quote others, they can also see that?
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on November 19, 2016, 10:18:48 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on November 19, 2016, 03:31:12 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 19, 2016, 06:29:08 AM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 19, 2016, 04:27:39 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 19, 2016, 04:14:18 AM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 19, 2016, 03:42:05 AM
Quote from: LMNO on November 18, 2016, 10:44:52 PM
Is your point that all beliefs have an equal value, regardless of objective truth?

No, that is not my point.

My point (and this is predominantly limited to U.S. politics but may be otherwise applicable) is that regardless of the objective truth, there is no difference to an outsider between the methods employed by the two major bodies of people who make very different claims about what the truth is. The more people are different, the more they are the same.

My point is that despite which side any given person thinks has a better grasp on the "objective truth", both sides exist and the pendulum of power swings back and forth between them. That isn't to say that the pendulum swings equally; whether or not it does is a different (but related) discussion.

If people don't see things as they are but instead cling to the way they think things ought to be, they live in ignorance. Politics becomes more polarized as both sides demonize each other for bad behaviors and defend their own for the same bad behaviors.

My appeal - despite that I know it almost certainly falls on deaf ears - is for people to stop lying to themselves and each other.

It must be difficult, being the only conscious person in the world.   :lulz:

It must be difficult being in my ignore list. Oh, wait, you aren't. Time to fix that.

Let me know how that works out.   :lulz:

I'm an admin, you can't block me.

Does that mean if you quote others, they can also see that?

Yes, actually.  I will cheerfully pass on anyone's posts.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Junkenstein on November 19, 2016, 11:40:43 PM
133 in this thread please.

I'd say more but I don't want to hog all the fun.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on November 20, 2016, 12:46:35 AM
Quote from: Junkenstein on November 18, 2016, 09:55:42 PM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 18, 2016, 09:48:09 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on November 18, 2016, 09:45:15 PM
You're doing a poor job of being a human fucking being in general.

The monkey is strong in this one.

Aaaaaaand welcome to my ignore list. You earned it after all.

I join Vivat, weeping softly in the corner over my loss.

My life has been ripped of meaning. All my accomplishments now count for naught. I am left with a hollow ache that can never be fixed.

And you're still an asshole.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on November 20, 2016, 06:06:24 PM
Here's protesting done right: https://dcdirectactionnews.wordpress.com/2016/11/19/anti-fascist-activists-storm-restaurant-hosting-neo-nazi-alt-right-npi-dinner/

Calling everyone who voted Trump a racist? Retarded. Storming an NPI dinner? Now you're cooking with gas!
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Ben Shapiro on November 20, 2016, 08:11:52 PM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 20, 2016, 06:06:24 PM
Here's protesting done right: https://dcdirectactionnews.wordpress.com/2016/11/19/anti-fascist-activists-storm-restaurant-hosting-neo-nazi-alt-right-npi-dinner/

Calling everyone who voted Trump a racist? Retarded. Storming an NPI dinner? Now you're cooking with gas!

(http://www.quickmeme.com/img/b4/b4afd96892e3fc79184d05aa31425d0461476089cd497957723fce1dc04e5d30.jpg)
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on November 20, 2016, 09:29:09 PM
Right, should have done this years ago. I JUST BLOCKED EVERY MOTHERFUCKEN LAST ONE OF YUO!!!1111ONE!!

It's just me now and there's gonna be some f'kin order for once  :argh!:
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on November 21, 2016, 12:49:37 AM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on November 20, 2016, 09:29:09 PM
It's just me now and there's gonna be some f'kin order for once  :argh!:

I think you underestimate how genuinely good it feels to see a graveyard of troll tombstones in response to every post.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: LMNO on November 21, 2016, 01:02:28 AM
By all means, add me to the list. Your head might be fertile, but your heart is dead.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on November 21, 2016, 01:48:15 AM
Quote from: LMNO on November 21, 2016, 01:02:28 AM
By all means, add me to the list. Your head might be fertile, but your heart is dead.

You haven't given me a good enough reason. Resorting to personal attacks in lieu of actual discussion is a good start.

Besides; what do you know of my heart? Why would you even care?

I didn't come here to give out free hugs. I certainly didn't get any. Pretty fucking hypocritical to demand sensitivity in a place absolutely infested with insensitivity.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Junkenstein on November 21, 2016, 02:21:36 AM
Only towards raging dickheads, which you proudly proclaimed yourself to be.

Fuck off to somewhere that will appreciate you more, like say, stormfront.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Junkenstein on November 21, 2016, 02:23:30 AM
Fuck it, I'm out. Totally not Ron here is taking up too much time and it's not like there's even anything original or funny here.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Salty on November 21, 2016, 02:33:30 AM
Quote from: Junkenstein on November 21, 2016, 02:23:30 AM
Fuck it, I'm out. Totally not Ron here is taking up too much time and it's not like there's even anything original or funny here.

Yeah, I was hoping for more staying power.  :cry:
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Junkenstein on November 21, 2016, 02:37:57 AM
Quote from: Vivat Alty on November 21, 2016, 02:33:30 AM
Quote from: Junkenstein on November 21, 2016, 02:23:30 AM
Fuck it, I'm out. Totally not Ron here is taking up too much time and it's not like there's even anything original or funny here.

Yeah, I was hoping for more staying power.  :cry:

Flaccid arguments and intellectual dishonesty is no way to go through life.

As we've seen though, change is unlikely here.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 21, 2016, 04:50:49 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on November 20, 2016, 09:29:09 PM
It's just me now and there's gonna be some f'kin order for once  :argh!:

Nailed it.  :lulz:
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on November 21, 2016, 05:15:23 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on November 21, 2016, 02:21:36 AM
Only towards raging dickheads, which you proudly proclaimed yourself to be.

Fuck off to somewhere that will appreciate you more, like say, stormfront.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on November 21, 2016, 05:15:32 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on November 21, 2016, 02:23:30 AM
Fuck it, I'm out. Totally not Ron here is taking up too much time and it's not like there's even anything original or funny here.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on November 21, 2016, 05:15:38 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on November 21, 2016, 02:37:57 AM
Quote from: Vivat Alty on November 21, 2016, 02:33:30 AM
Quote from: Junkenstein on November 21, 2016, 02:23:30 AM
Fuck it, I'm out. Totally not Ron here is taking up too much time and it's not like there's even anything original or funny here.

Yeah, I was hoping for more staying power.  :cry:

Flaccid arguments and intellectual dishonesty is no way to go through life.

As we've seen though, change is unlikely here.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Cainad (dec.) on November 21, 2016, 08:27:31 PM
I'll give you this mate: I think you've got about 20 IQ points on Shandor. Not that it's doing you a whole mess of good right now, but hey. I was a fucking moron on PD.com for my first year and a half. Now I'm only a minor nincompoop.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on November 21, 2016, 08:40:57 PM
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on November 21, 2016, 08:27:31 PM
I'll give you this mate: I think you've got about 20 IQ points on Shandor. Not that it's doing you a whole mess of good right now, but hey. I was a fucking moron on PD.com for my first year and a half. Now I'm only a minor nincompoop.

Same.  I was an idiot, but I turned that around 360 degrees!
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on November 21, 2016, 08:54:10 PM
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on November 21, 2016, 08:27:31 PM
I'll give you this mate: I think you've got about 20 IQ points on Shandor. Not that it's doing you a whole mess of good right now, but hey. I was a fucking moron on PD.com for my first year and a half. Now I'm only a minor nincompoop.

It's one thing to call someone an idiot; it's another to dismantle their arguments.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Cainad (dec.) on November 22, 2016, 04:51:22 AM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 21, 2016, 08:54:10 PM
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on November 21, 2016, 08:27:31 PM
I'll give you this mate: I think you've got about 20 IQ points on Shandor. Not that it's doing you a whole mess of good right now, but hey. I was a fucking moron on PD.com for my first year and a half. Now I'm only a minor nincompoop.

It's one thing to call someone an idiot; it's another to dismantle their arguments.

That is correct. I assure you that most people here are quite aware of the difference, and have made a conscientious decision to do the former.

The latter is more work and tends to have the same end result as the former. Especially if they are an idiot.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on November 22, 2016, 04:56:59 AM
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on November 22, 2016, 04:51:22 AM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 21, 2016, 08:54:10 PM
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on November 21, 2016, 08:27:31 PM
I'll give you this mate: I think you've got about 20 IQ points on Shandor. Not that it's doing you a whole mess of good right now, but hey. I was a fucking moron on PD.com for my first year and a half. Now I'm only a minor nincompoop.

It's one thing to call someone an idiot; it's another to dismantle their arguments.

That is correct. I assure you that most people here are quite aware of the difference, and have made a conscientious decision to do the former.

The latter is more work and tends to have the same end result as the former. Especially if they are an idiot.
This also.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on November 22, 2016, 05:11:14 AM
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on November 22, 2016, 04:51:22 AM
The latter is more work and tends to have the same end result as the former. Especially if they are an idiot.

Who's more of an idiot? The idiot, or the idiot who argues with the idiot?

Oh, nevermind, apparently the answer is me.

Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on November 21, 2016, 08:27:31 PM
I think you've got about 20 IQ points on Shandor.

I appreciate the compliment (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zi8ShAosqzI&t=1m31s), though. I think.

Maybe I should take up trolling.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 22, 2016, 03:57:56 PM
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on November 22, 2016, 04:51:22 AM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 21, 2016, 08:54:10 PM
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on November 21, 2016, 08:27:31 PM
I'll give you this mate: I think you've got about 20 IQ points on Shandor. Not that it's doing you a whole mess of good right now, but hey. I was a fucking moron on PD.com for my first year and a half. Now I'm only a minor nincompoop.

It's one thing to call someone an idiot; it's another to dismantle their arguments.

That is correct. I assure you that most people here are quite aware of the difference, and have made a conscientious decision to do the former.

The latter is more work and tends to have the same end result as the former. Especially if they are an idiot.

Yup.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on November 25, 2016, 11:23:08 PM
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on November 22, 2016, 04:51:22 AM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 21, 2016, 08:54:10 PM
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on November 21, 2016, 08:27:31 PM
I'll give you this mate: I think you've got about 20 IQ points on Shandor. Not that it's doing you a whole mess of good right now, but hey. I was a fucking moron on PD.com for my first year and a half. Now I'm only a minor nincompoop.

It's one thing to call someone an idiot; it's another to dismantle their arguments.

That is correct. I assure you that most people here are quite aware of the difference, and have made a conscientious decision to do the former.

The latter is more work and tends to have the same end result as the former. Especially if they are an idiot.

That's exactly the kind of thing a person who can't back up their position would say.

EDIT:
Although I suppose this is technically a religious forum of a sort, so the occasional person expecting to be believed based purely on blind faith is to be expected
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on November 25, 2016, 11:34:16 PM
Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on November 25, 2016, 11:23:08 PM
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on November 22, 2016, 04:51:22 AM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 21, 2016, 08:54:10 PM
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on November 21, 2016, 08:27:31 PM
I'll give you this mate: I think you've got about 20 IQ points on Shandor. Not that it's doing you a whole mess of good right now, but hey. I was a fucking moron on PD.com for my first year and a half. Now I'm only a minor nincompoop.

It's one thing to call someone an idiot; it's another to dismantle their arguments.

That is correct. I assure you that most people here are quite aware of the difference, and have made a conscientious decision to do the former.

The latter is more work and tends to have the same end result as the former. Especially if they are an idiot.

That's exactly the kind of thing a person who can't back up their position would say.

EDIT:
Although I suppose this is technically a religious forum of a sort, so the occasional person expecting to be believed based purely on blind faith is to be expected

Sometimes I wish the REAL Diogenes (of Sinope) was here to make fart noises or something, anything really would be an improvement over the surplus of fugazi Diogenes currently in overststock.
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on November 26, 2016, 03:44:02 AM
Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on November 25, 2016, 11:23:08 PM
That's exactly the kind of thing a person who can't back up their position would say.

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/d5/e3/10/d5e310d463481fcf9a820d803c2110c5.jpg)
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Pergamos on November 26, 2016, 11:03:21 AM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 26, 2016, 03:44:02 AM
Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on November 25, 2016, 11:23:08 PM
That's exactly the kind of thing a person who can't back up their position would say.

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/d5/e3/10/d5e310d463481fcf9a820d803c2110c5.jpg)

You do realize you cast yourself as the pigeon?  Or do you not read French?
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on November 26, 2016, 11:52:35 AM
Quote from: Pergamos on November 26, 2016, 11:03:21 AM
Or do you not read French?

(https://media.giphy.com/media/nf4lCr9SLT6nu/giphy.gif)

"I'm sorry, I'd love to be of assistance to you, but I'm afraid I speak no English." (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vgoEhsJORU)
Title: Re: Protestors Are Assholes
Post by: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on November 29, 2016, 12:22:09 AM
 :hanging: