RAW library

[Cain]

If you didn't know

http://www.deepleafproductions.com/wilsonlibrary/index.htm

[Lies]

Thanks Cain. I now know more and continue to understand less.

[Bogus Magus]

Thanks for the library link Cain! 

Some of us 'students' at the Maybe Logic Academy produce a quarterly magazine, and also an ongoing blog called Only Maybe

All sorts of useful and relevant links get posted @ OM

Although as a newbie I have already come across what looks like some apathy (or even dislike) towards His Serene Absence around here, in which case

"Move on! Nothing to see hear, folks!"

[East Coast Hustle]

not so much dislike as just "been there, done that a zillion times over".

[Cain]

Well, that and, while he did some good stuff, he also did some not good stuff, and neither of them are sufficient for the amount of adoration he seems to get from some of his more zealous fans.

Welcome, by the way.

[Bogus Magus]

not so much dislike as just "been there, done that a zillion times over".

What, died a zillion times?

Published 32 zillion books?

I'd act impressed, but you obviously don't like hero-worship...

[Bogus Magus]

Well, that and, while he did some good stuff, he also did some not good stuff, and neither of them are sufficient for the amount of adoration he seems to get from some of his more zealous fans.

Welcome, by the way.

Ye Goddesses!  You ppl seem tough.  Of course, I never did some less than good stuff myself, ever, so I suppose I could pass judgement. I just quite liked him, and wanted to study with him - I mean, if I could do a course on "Finnegans Wake" with James Joyce I would have; if Thomas Pynchon would email me to clarify a few things about "Gravity's Rainbow" I'd enjoy it.

I haven't met any zealous fans...and I certainly don't know anybody who adored him...he eats, he shits, he writes, he dies.

but I guess if you have met one of his other fan clubs, who want some fucking guru or something, they obviously never heard his definition of a disciple...

"A disciple is an asshole looking for a human being to attach itself to." RAW

We did try to create an anti-RAW Feelings thread, and one or two quibbles came up, but I guess Antero Alli (another of the tutors) summed it up pretty well:

Being in Bob's company when he said this made it clear to everyone in the room that he was happy being alone with his vision and spiritual authority. And that anyone trying to suck up to him as a guru would achieve nothing less than a zen hotfoot or some related embarassment.

The thing about Bob was how ordinary a guy he really was. Those who never knew Bob -- and most people who have read his books only know of Bob; they never knew him -- seem to have this exaggerated propensity to mythologize the man. Bob was very aware of this and I think it embarassed him. However, when he was onstage performing his lectures (and they were all performances), it was easy to see why many people mythologized him. Audiences always love the performance, not the actual man; that's show biz....

I have no Anti-RAW Feelings since he personally dismantled my guru projections and, in fact (by proxy) taught me how to dismantle these types of projections from those who try it on me. And,  I must say, I've gotten pretty good at it...

still,  my life partner has no interest in the man or his work, and still has no idea why I find him so amusing and stimulating.  I gave up any attempt at a 'hard sell' a long time ago.

And I came here to browse around a Discordian world, not push MLA on anyone.

Be Seeing You! (I'll be the guy you spot rummaging through the archives of old posts, with my notebook, clipboard, camera, dictaphone, and bad attitude.)

[East Coast Hustle]

we seem to be in agreement. RAW was cool (or, at least, the writing of his that I'm familiar with amused me), but we seem to get alot of dipshits who idolize him and embarass themselves by missing the point so badly and not even knowing it.

welcome to the forums, by the way. check out the "Or Kill Me' and BIP subforums to get a sense of what we're kind of about when we're not flaming each other or jabbering away like idiots about music or politics or something.

[Bogus Magus]

we seem to be in agreement. RAW was cool (or, at least, the writing of his that I'm familiar with amused me), but we seem to get alot of dipshits who idolize him and embarass themselves by missing the point so badly and not even knowing it.

welcome to the forums, by the way. check out the "Or Kill Me' and BIP subforums to get a sense of what we're kind of about when we're not flaming each other or jabbering away like idiots about music or politics or something.

Cheers ECH (as a smartass into Finnegans Wake, I can't help noticing that your initials would come out as Everybody Comes Here).  I agree that anyone who thinks of Bob as a conspiracy theorist (for instance) got it incredibly wrong, as he seems (to me) to have used conspiracy theory as a 'teaching tale' about how we form beliefs, etc.  And yeah, perhaps in California you have Bob-worshippers...over here in the UK almost no-one heard of him, and I have to describe him as my favourite sci-fi writer, or satirist, or something. Guru doesn't appear on the list! Personally I put him in the same zone as Bill Hicks (big in the UK) and George Carlin (unknown in the UK), or (say) Bucky Fuller or Marshall McLuhan. Big-brained and funny with it.

Thanks for the thread suggestions. It doesn't bother me when people flame away - we have our MLA moments when the magick gang start sending thunderbolts at each other, but generally we prefer a more calm interaction.  Whether that means that lurkers then feel terrified to join in (for fear of thunderbolts, or of looking stupid) I have no idea.

As a 'founder member' - there from Day One - I probably draw some heat from people with problems with pecking orders,  but if they invent hierarchies in their heads then they really came to the wrong place. My main problems have come from teasing those into magick...they just seem so easy to tease (taking life so seriously, and all)...

Because of my approaching 3 years at the Academy, I declared myself ready to 'graduate' and instead of spending most of my spare time at MLA I wanted to come out and explore (spy, go on a missionary expedition, vision quest, publicity campaign, goof-off, etc) other related places.

As a PKD fan, I already stumbled over the BIP thread...I'll go look at the 'Or Kill Me' when I get a chance.

Thanks!

[East Coast Hustle]

My main problems have come from teasing those into magick...they just seem so easy to tease (taking life so seriously, and all)...

we will get along nicely, I think.

ECH,
LOVES fucking with Mhadjickquians

[LMNO]

Lately, I've been learning about quantum physics a bit more, and I've noticed that RAW tended to (either accidentally or on purpose, I can't tell) use improper metaphors and/or macro conclusions of micro events to defend his High Weirdness gambits.

Schrodinger's Cat is a perfect example.  In a way, RAW misled and misinformed his fan base as to what quantum scientists thought was "really going on", which is a shame.

[That One Guy]

It's always welcome to hear other peoples' perspectives on things. It's what makes the whole "Discordian" thing so interesting to me, so I'm glad you decided to wander over here and see what it is we're on about. Welcome, pull up a metaphorical chair, and enjoy 

We tend to be skeptical of anyone that comes in waving the RAW flag because we HAVE encountered a rather large number of people that treat the RAW stuff as "gospel" or who have only read, say, Illuminatus! and took it as a conspiracy text. They come here thinking that that's how WE view it, in the process either realizing that there's more to it all (and generally sticking around) or making a hell of a lot of noise trying to tell us why we don't really "SEE it, man!" (sadly, a much more common occurence).

And we do certainly enjoy needling people that take their shit too seriously, from the mahadjiquuaal types to the people that think they know the "One True Discordia" as handed down by whoever. From the look of things, kick back, check out the BIP and the "Or Kill Me" rants, and make yourself comfortable in this little corner of the intertubes - you should get on just fine here

[LMNO]

Also, I've seen a lot of "Discordians" get hung up on the Absurdity and Nonsense trip, and just live their life in a bubble of Monty Python re-hashes, making 30-year-old fnord jokes, while the empire burns.

[LMNO]

I also wanted to mention and remind all of Cain and TGRR's oft-quoted troofs:  That Eris isn't all fluffy, light-hearted paradoxes and puns:  She's also a cold-hearted, vicious bitch who revels in war, destruction, death and, well, DISCORD.

Be careful of who you worship.  Get a full resume first.

[Bogus Magus]

We tend to be skeptical of anyone that comes in waving the RAW flag because we HAVE encountered a rather large number of people that treat the RAW stuff as "gospel" or who have only read, say, Illuminatus! and took it as a conspiracy text. They come here thinking that that's how WE view it, in the process either realizing that there's more to it all (and generally sticking around) or making a hell of a lot of noise trying to tell us why we don't really "SEE it, man!" (sadly, a much more common occurence).

Ech!  When the magickian editor - who got our magazine started - left on his post 93, because I had broken 'the code of politeness' and said "Fuck You!" to him [let's not go into the subject matter right now] the rest of us determined to keep the magazine going anyway. It seemed like a good idea at the time.

I wrangled one edition, and in my intro put:

Robert Anton Wilson got quoted as saying this in an interview: 

"I've written about a lot of different subjects! I've got about ten different fan-clubs, depending on which book they've read!" 

Some of us have read them all. 

So I do understand about those people who think he 'believed' in conspiracies - and prefer kicking them rather swiftly up the arse [sorry, 'ass']. 

And yeah, LMNO, I have no idea about the accuracy of Bob's metaphors for Quantum Mechanics - I only ever met one Quantum Physicist and he didn't wanna talk about the 'interpretations' at all. He sneered at me as though I belonged in The 'vague' Arts, and he lived in The 'hard' Sciences...    Whatever...