Mapping the terrain.

[hooplala]

Toronto is compensated by having the most beautiful strippers per capita of any major city.

I was not aware of that.  Now that you mention it, the ones I've seen have been pretty good.

[LMNO]

Y'all don't know how good you got it.



LMNO
- Has a total of two (2) strip clubs in Botson, neither is worth it.  And the next available option is Providence, RI.  Don't even.

[Kai]

Snark aside, if you want to communicate meaningfully about the topic in the OP, you have to differentiate. It's what language and abstractions are for (communication via abstraction, otherwise, meet me at the ZenDo and we can hit each other with sticks). Statements in language range between 3 (not two) value positions: True, False, and Meaningless.

Your position:

If T = M, and M = Ego_individual, then does T = God_{the divine undifferentiated}?


...falls squarely into Meaningless territory (signs that lack meaning behind them), mainly because there isn't a complete thought represented there (and I even gave you the benefit of the doubt and subscripted the term 'God' for you).

This is the classic problem of adepts who have experienced the '5th circuit' holistic, all-is-one sensory turn-on of Neuro-Somatic Bliss. The signs and symbols (i.e. the maps) that we use to describe and get around our every day world of social interactions fail spectacularly. There are a few out there who can put the experience into words. (Rumi comes to mind from the Sufi tradition, Rinzai (Zen/Chan bhuddist) may be another, and James Joyce and Ezra Pound (his post Chinese-studies poetry) probably fit here as well.)

Edit: Don't want to kill the conversation... do you think you can put your thought from above into some Context (where were you/ what were you doing/ how were you feeling when it came to you? )

I like this and what else you've had to say in this thread. Especially linking the OP to the 5th circuit. It seems like often, when people first step into 5C, they have trouble /backing out/ to analyze it. The page in Angel Tech referring to the bliss-->collapse--->reflection cycle (I can't remember it exactly) where a person in All is One mode has to step out of rapture and away from the experience to grow from it.

[LMNO]

Yeah.  "If All is One, then the Map is the Territory!"

That right there is one horrible clusterfuck of semantics, that is.

[Doktor Howl]

If the terrain is the map and the map is an individual ego/personality then isn't the terrain also, conceptually, god?

Warning: Definitions may become blurry as you enter the white light of mysticism.

wut

Dok,
Doesn't speak hippie.

[Kai]

Yeah.  "If All is One, then the Map is the Territory!"

That right there is one horrible clusterfuck of semantics, that is.

Definitely. Which is why 5C rapture isn't a good time and place for 3C musings.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Yeah.  "If All is One, then the Map is the Territory!"

That right there is one horrible clusterfuck of semantics, that is.

Definitely. Which is why 5C rapture isn't a good time and place for 3C musings.

Music to my ears, Kai

[Kai]

Yeah.  "If All is One, then the Map is the Territory!"

That right there is one horrible clusterfuck of semantics, that is.

Definitely. Which is why 5C rapture isn't a good time and place for 3C musings.

Music to my ears, Kai

Hey, YOU'RE the one who sent me AT, so you should expect it.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Yeah.  "If All is One, then the Map is the Territory!"

That right there is one horrible clusterfuck of semantics, that is.

Definitely. Which is why 5C rapture isn't a good time and place for 3C musings.

Music to my ears, Kai

Hey, YOU'RE the one who sent me AT, so you should expect it.

I never 'expected' it, but I am glad that your response wasn't "Why did you send me this pretentious book of assbaggery?"

[Telarus]

Yeah.  "If All is One, then the Map is the Territory!"

That right there is one horrible clusterfuck of semantics, that is.

Seriously.

How's this for a re-format:

Because we can achieve a mindstate where we do not abstract parts of reality away from its undifferentiated flow, we can realize that 'the territory' and 'the map' are deeply interconnected parts of said flow which we have arbitrarily drawn boundaries around. We should keep in mind that these labels and models come from within us, not external to us, and that while they may be useful for a time we should not cling to them. Reality remains in constant flux and clinging to a (soon outdated) map will lead you further from the light into the dark empty places where you are likely to be eaten by a Grue.

[LMNO]

Oddly enought, I find that to be a higher amount of gibberish than the original.

At least in the former version, I can differentiate where things go wrong. 

[Telarus]

Oddly enought, I find that to be a higher amount of gibberish than the original.

At least in the former version, I can differentiate where things go wrong. 

[Kai]

So what can we take from this thread?

IMO, it's that 5th circuit is something experienced, but discussing 5th circuit from within 5th circuit ends up sounding like gibberish.

Which is why no one thinks stoned people are smart except other stoned people.

[nerinamakani]

""""Because we can achieve a mindstate where we do not abstract parts of reality away from its undifferentiated flow, we can realize that 'the territory' and 'the map' are deeply interconnected parts of said flow which we have arbitrarily drawn boundaries around.""""

THIS. Sounds pretty good to me actually, not perfect, but closer to what I was trying to say.

I wasn't so much saying that the map is reality but that the map (personalities) are part of the reality.

Like part of eachother. Shit, THAT sounds less clear to me. And more meaningless emotionally.

Meh. I was meditating on  a long bus ride after a day or two of not eating hopped up on caffeine and appetite suppresents. I had one of those moments where  something feels like it makes sense and is deeply meaningful.

Like I was picturing my personality as an inlaid pattern on a giant block of wood representing reality(god). Part of eachother.

I guess I was just trying to express something I really can't. You're right I ain't rumi, lol.


"""Faulty premise: Many Discordians (including myself) tend to follow the idea that the map is NOT the territory.

If you wish to follow your initial premise, please support your assertion that the ideas in our ego/personality perfectly match external reality."""
Maybe irrelevant in the sense that I am trying to use these words? Or I'm just looking at the subject from a different angle.


"""No.  By your definitions, the terrain would be part of your ego and personality.""" Yep... Isn't it? :P


The terrain as god thing makes sense to me.  But then again for me minds are just patterns of referent information, active or not.

And while we re on the subject..Does gravity cause telepathy or what? (look for the relevancy)

[Kai]

It may be your metaphysical opinion that minds are just "patterns of referent information", but I have evidence to falsify that.

To your question: No. And I don't see the relevance.