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I have a Nightmare.....

Started by AFK, October 17, 2006, 03:19:57 PM

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Jasper

Quote from: East Coast Hustle on October 19, 2006, 05:32:35 PM
also, define "extremism" in this context. this certainly doesn't fit my definition, but my POV on the matter may be skewed.

For our purposes, absolutes about what need to be done and words like should and ought.

Call me cautious and trepid, but I dislike the message and tone.

East Coast Hustle

OK, that's valid.

I didn't get any sense of demagoguery out of it, but I've met RWHN in person so again, my opinion is skewed compared to someone who's just reading it fresh. I agree that we need to make a concerted effort to police ourselves so as not to end up sonding like (or even becoming) what we spend so much time railing against, but I think the merit of what RWHN was saying outweighs any negative connotations or nuance that might leak through.

YMMV.
Rabid Colostomy Hole Jammer of the Coming Apocalypse™

The Devil is in the details; God is in the nuance.


Some yahoo yelled at me, saying 'GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH', and I thought, "I'm feeling generous today.  Why not BOTH?"

Jasper

I do appreciate the energy though.

I'd hand over a decent score if he reworded a lot of small things.

Triple Zero

i think that any attempt at the wrong/extreme kind of discordian activism will blow up from the inside due to the nature of discordianism (and with that, some other kinds of discordian activism as well - just because).

leading to the following observations

- you (felix) are probably the first sign of such :)
- perhaps rwhn's plan is doomed from the start
- i'd like to see the "rewording of a lot of things", perhaps it proves me wrong

btw re-reading rwhn's piece with your viewpoint as far as you described, i can see how it seems offensive.

on the other hand, it also seems like what needs to be done to get O:Mf as it sits now to take off from the mental masturbation level. because i get the strong impression that there's a lot more talk about O:Mf and only a few actually doing stuff (and then this doing stuff seems to happen mostly online -- though i myself would be reluctant to post about bigger RL mindfucks as well)

on a completely different note. it is a fact that people here have long loooong toes and get into verbal fights etc almost constantly. that's a form of discord. i would say we channel the spirit of Eris quite nicely.
- but does it really stop or hinder our efforts? take a look at the PD06 project, it started at first here, then the board broke down all sorts of blah happened and i saw people talking down about PD06 that "it was already dead before it took off", "we only did the BIP pamphlet but the others (lollercaust and mystical PD) were failures" etc. but the negative talk happened only in the in-between lag of activity of chaos/boardswitching etc, now at the Discordian Network (BIP/pdcomrefuge-forum) we are back and dedicated at working on it (even though not much finished has come out of it yet, there is some pretty good material)
- also, i wonder if other discordian communities on the net experience the same kind of constant quarreling? they are more fluffy rainbow discordians right?
Ex-Soviet Bloc Sexual Attack Swede of Tomorrow™
e-prime disclaimer: let it seem fairly unclear I understand the apparent subjectivity of the above statements. maybe.

INFORMATION SO POWERFUL, YOU ACTUALLY NEED LESS.

AFK

Okay, I am going to address the section Felix highlighted one by one:

QuoteHow can we weirdos, asshats, miscreants really affect our society?  We aren't going to do it by simple housekeeping.  We need to unite.  But, we need to unite and minimize the bloodletting.  I said minimize, not eliminate, where would the fun be in that? 

This obviously refers to cleaning up PD.com after its period of languishment and flame-wars which has dominated its existence for the better part of the past year.  The point I was making is that we need to try to find a way to co-exist in a way that is productive but that doesn't squelch our fire.  This, of course, is working on the premise that what we wish to do is a collective is to be productive.  If we just wish for this place to be purely social (which there is nothing wrong with) then this whole rant is moot and you may cease reading anything written hereafter.

QuoteLong has society lead us astray.  Long has it told us where we should and should not go.  Long has it told us what to eat and what not to eat.  Meanwhile, we Discordians have been in our little hovels spread across the globe.  We talk big talk about fucking up the system.  About burning it to the ground.  About skull fucking the Pinkos and The Normals. But how effective can we really be if we all stick apart and stick forks in each others eyes?

I believe this is where "extremist lanugage" comes into play.  Look, sometimes using fancy metaphors and 60's slapstick can be good vehicles for getting your point across.  Sometimes, using a nail-ridden 2x4 is also appropriate.  Obviously, I'm using the latter tool in this rant, which, is what makes it a "rant."  My whole point was really a more blunt reitiration of the first which was, do we want to turn The System on its ear?  Well, we're not going to do it if we are constantly gnawing on each other's ears. 

QuoteThat's right, we can't.  They will never take us seriously anyway. It should never be the goal.  We aren't going to change society.  We aren't going to save the world.  We aren't going to make the Conservatives OR the Liberals accept us.  The Conservatives want to burn us at the stake.  The Liberals don't like us because we don't give them any money.  The Libertarians don't like us because we steal their pot.  The Greens don't like us because we eat meat and don't recycle our soda cans.  But more importantly, THOSE Discordians over there don't like us because we aren't THEIR kind of Discordians.

I'm not quite sure what Felix's problem is with this particular passage.  Maybe I could have made this one a bit clearer.  I was simply trying to say that the vast majority of the public is never going to pay attention to anything we ever say.  It will be dismissed as kooky, weird, geeky, verbal terrorism, etc., etc.,  I was also, with the latter part of this paragraph trying to illustrate how the Discordians are unique.  Especially in America people look at someone as Liberal, Conservative, or wishy washy (read Moderate).  Discordians, I believe, manage to travel a whole different ground that can't be put into any of these categories.  We should relish that and find others who wish to tread that same ground.  There won't be many, but, the few we find will be better of when the shit hits the fan.

QuoteI propose we start a REAL network of Discordians.  Maybe we won't all hang out here, maybe we won't all hang out there, but that SHOULD NOT BE THE POINT.  If we truly wish to get the word out we need to get the lead out.  Let us not dwell on who is real and who isn't.  Let us focus, instead, on who will get real and who will not.  Who will bring the noise AND the funk, not just the noise. 

This is where the "I Have a Nightmare..." comes in.  I have a, admittedly lofty vision, of a sort of united federation or collaborative of Discordians.  We know there are other Discordians who hang out at different parts of the web.  Those of us who live in urban areas may even know some Discordian haunts.  I think, if we are really serious about a PD06 or something similar, the more voices the better.  Simultaneously, if that is our aim, we need to focus on those who are going to bring it.  Steve Jackson failed at producing a PD sequel as he wanted to.  I think there is a reason for that, other than him being an asshat.  Not getting enough voices. 

So, I hope I've cleared things up.  Any further questions please let me know.  Thanks. 
Cynicism is a blank check for failure.

AFK

Let me end by saying that for whatever reason the heart of what I was trying to say was getting lost.  I believe some are focusing too much on the stage I set and not the plot itself which is this:

Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on October 17, 2006, 03:19:57 PM
I don't know.  But I'd sure as hell like to try.  What if each of us found just three Discordians, elsewhere on the infotarded superdriveway and convinced them to join our effort.  That's right, to join our effort.  Not our clique, not our all boys/girls club, not our cabal.  Bring them here with a purpose.  They've read the book, they're heard ALL of the jokes, they've had the Kerry Thornley bowl cut with the Abraham Lincoln beard.  Now's the time to cast the superficial aside and get down to the rusty brass tacks.

I propose we start a REAL network of Discordians... 

That's why I renamed BIP to TDN.  I want to bring others into the fold to help us.  To bring them here and to help us produce material.  Yeah, I know we've done BIP and some other tings but with more we can do more.  Doesn't that sound reasonable? 

Cynicism is a blank check for failure.

East Coast Hustle

sure does.

hey, I know this discordian who lives down in AUburn! maybe we can get him to do some writing for us.

Rabid Colostomy Hole Jammer of the Coming Apocalypse™

The Devil is in the details; God is in the nuance.


Some yahoo yelled at me, saying 'GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH', and I thought, "I'm feeling generous today.  Why not BOTH?"

AFK

Quote from: East Coast Hustle on October 20, 2006, 04:19:52 PM
sure does.

hey, I know this discordian who lives down in AUburn! maybe we can get him to do some writing for us.



yeah, okay, I get the hint.   :-D  :wink:
Cynicism is a blank check for failure.

P3nT4gR4m

My gut reaction is that united discord is a contradiction in terms. A million individuals doing their own stupid random shit will eventually gnaw the system away to the point of collapse whereas if we all united and started marching or something the feds would have a huge fucking target to aim their bullets at. Unity is their law, it's their weakness. I say exploit that weakness not adopt it. If everybody here successfully fucked with one new head per week and those newly fertilised minds, in turn, did the same we'd have a planet of drooling idiots in fkin no time. :evil:

I'm up to my arse in Brexit Numpties, but I want more.  Target-rich environments are the new sexy.
Not actually a meat product.
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Awful and Bent Behemothic Results of Last Night's Painful Squat.
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Octomom Auxillary Heat Exchanger Repairman
walking the fine line line between genius and batshit fucking crazy

"computation is a pattern in the spacetime arrangement of particles, and it's not the particles but the pattern that really matters! Matter doesn't matter." -- Max Tegmark

Jasper

QuoteMy gut reaction is that united discord is a contradiction in terms.

Or at the very worst a simple farce.
Quote
A million individuals doing their own stupid random shit will eventually gnaw the system away to the point of collapse whereas if we all united and started marching or something the feds would have a huge fucking target to aim their bullets at.

There are not a million discordians, and even then, it'd be more than 6000 to 1.  If we united, however it would go far worse for us.

QuoteUnity is their law, it's their weakness.
Is that why they're winning?  Jesus Fuck, I wonder what thier strength is- with weaknesses like that.

QuoteI say exploit that weakness not adopt it. If everybody here successfully fucked with one new head per week and those newly fertilised minds, in turn, did the same we'd have a planet of drooling idiots in fkin no time.

Or a world full of people who have newly discovered how to be assholes.

P3nT4gR4m

Who says they're winning. The way I see it there's them and me and I aint been beat. If everyone was as cool as me I wouldn't be so cool. Fuck the monkeys they're here for my amusement. Yeah I know - philanthropic to a fault.

I'm up to my arse in Brexit Numpties, but I want more.  Target-rich environments are the new sexy.
Not actually a meat product.
Ass-Kicking & Foot-Stomping Ancient Master of SHIT FUCK FUCK FUCK
Awful and Bent Behemothic Results of Last Night's Painful Squat.
High Altitude Haggis-Filled Sex Bucket From Beyond Time and Space.
Internet Monkey Person of Filthy and Immoral Pygmy-Porn Wart Contagion
Octomom Auxillary Heat Exchanger Repairman
walking the fine line line between genius and batshit fucking crazy

"computation is a pattern in the spacetime arrangement of particles, and it's not the particles but the pattern that really matters! Matter doesn't matter." -- Max Tegmark

lovernotafighter

I'm definately opposed to discordian unity, or even trying to recruit people to discordianism as a concept. There loads of people out there doing their own mindfucks often without even knowing it. I've been doing since before I discovered discordianism on the net around 2000 or so.

Let's not put people off by trying to convince they are part of a movement, lets just encourage and perpatrate mind fucks where we can, nasty and nice on everyone even each other. It's all good.

Don't get me wrong, build unity if you want (or at least try) but for me it is the wrong path.

That doesnt mean we can't cooperate on projects, and share stories and advice and so on.

Solidarity amid Chaos!

Or something...

The Good Reverend Roger

" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: lovernotafighter on October 24, 2006, 12:03:05 AM
I'm definately opposed to discordian unity, or even trying to recruit people to discordianism as a concept.

Well, yeah, we can't run around letting people in on our little joke, can we?
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Jasper

I'm all for prosetylizing, which is meant mainly to entertain first and recruit second or fifth or whatever.

But a network where all internet discordians can be found by would just make it easy.