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Gold hits $1500.00 an Oz. for first time.

Started by Disco Pickle, April 19, 2011, 07:13:26 PM

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Disco Pickle

Quote from: Doktor Phox on April 20, 2011, 02:50:48 PM
Quote from: Iptuous on April 20, 2011, 02:43:35 PM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on April 20, 2011, 02:37:44 PM
You know, I never quite understood the "invest in metals" ideology. Can someone explain the rational behind it?

well, as far as 'investing', it seems pretty simple.  if you believe they are going to go up in price for one reason or another, you dump money in to seek roi.  actually, i'm not sure what the confusion is... why would it seem any different than investing in wheat futures, or anything else?
That's what I mean. Investing in gold and silver doesn't seem like it's any different than investing in... anything else. Yet, I know quite a number of people who strongly advocate that investing in gold and silver is the most important thing you can do with your money (my ex-fiancée's grandparents, for example). So, I'm wondering... what makes it more important?


As for the zombie apocalypse, I think you're better off investing in a decent sized patch of land away from civilization with a few engineering projects to make it self-sufficient and defensible, personally, but.... hey, maybe the zombies will be allergic to gold? 

zombie apocalypse types assume (not unreasonably) that it'll return to being a useful medium of exchange and will have value after a collapse of paper currencies.  of course, you can't eat gold, but gold would probably be the only thing that would buy you a plane ticket to somewhere not yet infected by zombies.  or get you into a vault.
"Events in the past may be roughly divided into those which probably never happened and those which do not matter." --William Ralph Inge

"sometimes someone confesses a sin in order to take credit for it." -- John Von Neumann

Phox

Quote from: Iptuous on April 20, 2011, 03:02:32 PM
what Luna said...
they are primarily ripoff companies with ripoff marketing catering to unfounded fear/greed.
Yeah, that makes sense. Stupid people being duped by stupid things.
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on April 20, 2011, 03:03:35 PM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on April 20, 2011, 02:50:48 PM
Quote from: Iptuous on April 20, 2011, 02:43:35 PM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on April 20, 2011, 02:37:44 PM
You know, I never quite understood the "invest in metals" ideology. Can someone explain the rational behind it?

well, as far as 'investing', it seems pretty simple.  if you believe they are going to go up in price for one reason or another, you dump money in to seek roi.  actually, i'm not sure what the confusion is... why would it seem any different than investing in wheat futures, or anything else?
That's what I mean. Investing in gold and silver doesn't seem like it's any different than investing in... anything else. Yet, I know quite a number of people who strongly advocate that investing in gold and silver is the most important thing you can do with your money (my ex-fiancée's grandparents, for example). So, I'm wondering... what makes it more important?


As for the zombie apocalypse, I think you're better off investing in a decent sized patch of land away from civilization with a few engineering projects to make it self-sufficient and defensible, personally, but.... hey, maybe the zombies will be allergic to gold? 

zombie apocalypse types assume (not unreasonably) that it'll return to being a useful medium of exchange and will have value after a collapse of paper currencies.  of course, you can't eat gold, but gold would probably be the only thing that would buy you a plane ticket to somewhere not yet infected by zombies.  or get you into a vault.
Fair point, but that assumes that there are vaults/uninfected places to begin with. I foresee that being a relatively short term solution. It also assumes that people universally accept gold as innately valuable.

Phox,
Does not, and especially wouldn't in the event of zombies.

Disco Pickle

Quote from: Doktor Phox on April 20, 2011, 03:11:09 PM
Quote from: Iptuous on April 20, 2011, 03:02:32 PM
what Luna said...
they are primarily ripoff companies with ripoff marketing catering to unfounded fear/greed.
Yeah, that makes sense. Stupid people being duped by stupid things.
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on April 20, 2011, 03:03:35 PM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on April 20, 2011, 02:50:48 PM
Quote from: Iptuous on April 20, 2011, 02:43:35 PM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on April 20, 2011, 02:37:44 PM
You know, I never quite understood the "invest in metals" ideology. Can someone explain the rational behind it?

well, as far as 'investing', it seems pretty simple.  if you believe they are going to go up in price for one reason or another, you dump money in to seek roi.  actually, i'm not sure what the confusion is... why would it seem any different than investing in wheat futures, or anything else?
That's what I mean. Investing in gold and silver doesn't seem like it's any different than investing in... anything else. Yet, I know quite a number of people who strongly advocate that investing in gold and silver is the most important thing you can do with your money (my ex-fiancée's grandparents, for example). So, I'm wondering... what makes it more important?


As for the zombie apocalypse, I think you're better off investing in a decent sized patch of land away from civilization with a few engineering projects to make it self-sufficient and defensible, personally, but.... hey, maybe the zombies will be allergic to gold? 

zombie apocalypse types assume (not unreasonably) that it'll return to being a useful medium of exchange and will have value after a collapse of paper currencies.  of course, you can't eat gold, but gold would probably be the only thing that would buy you a plane ticket to somewhere not yet infected by zombies.  or get you into a vault.
Fair point, but that assumes that there are vaults/uninfected places to begin with. I foresee that being a relatively short term solution. It also assumes that people universally accept gold as innately valuable.

Phox,
Does not, and especially wouldn't in the event of zombies.


even though it's fallen out of use as commonly accepted currency, it still retains values necessary for a good medium of exchange: portable, easily weighted and divided, able to be easily marked with a given value, and difficult to counterfeit.

all reasons to assume it would go back to being a currency useful for exchanging goods and services.
"Events in the past may be roughly divided into those which probably never happened and those which do not matter." --William Ralph Inge

"sometimes someone confesses a sin in order to take credit for it." -- John Von Neumann

Elder Iptuous

if there is some sort of catastrophe, i expect the immediate currency will be canned/dry food, and ammunition.  however there is only so much of that you can buy before you need to have a more robust slab on your house.
after you reach that point, gold seems like a good option.  and it should be used after the zombies are dead and people are trying to return to normal.

and Phox.... you would view gold as a good medium of exchange if the crazy hillbilly in town with a ton of long storage food and ammunition says that's the only thing he'll take. (apart from your general horse trading...)

Triple Zero

> the same reason we're paying what we're paying for gas right now.

It must be real tough, that.
Ex-Soviet Bloc Sexual Attack Swede of Tomorrow™
e-prime disclaimer: let it seem fairly unclear I understand the apparent subjectivity of the above statements. maybe.

INFORMATION SO POWERFUL, YOU ACTUALLY NEED LESS.

Elder Iptuous

your bicycle gets pretty good mpg, though, Trip.

Laughin Jude

I guess the problem I have with gold as some kind of "default" currency is that it's really not much good for anything. Recently they've found some uses for it in electronics, sure, but other than that there's not much going for gold other than it being shiny and relatively rare. You can't eat it; you can't build shelter with it; it's too soft to be any good for making tools or machines. Gold only has value in our current civilization because people have arbitrarily decided it has value and they apparently have the resources to waste chasing after it. See how long that lasts if their comfortable middle class lifestyles are interrupted and food and water start coming at a premium.

If the zombie apocalypse happens and I'm sitting on a bunch of food and water and someone offers me gold in exchange for my stuff, I'm saying fuck it, gold's just as worthless as paper money; come back when you have something useful to trade me. Likewise, if someone else in this theoretical post-apocalyptic world will trade me hard-to-find food and water for my useless shiny rocks, that person's a goddamn sucker.
Laughin Jude.com - Philosophy, snark, weird stories and bad art

The Plain and Honest Truth - A semi-Discordian serial novel about 9/11, the Iraq War, aliens, the origins of Western religion and an evil sock puppet from another dimension

Dysfunctional Cunt

I think if there is a zombie apocolypse, currency is going to be the least of anyone's concerns.  If it had to be a metal, I would say lead...

AFK

Fuck Gold. 

Tungsten is where it's at fools! 

Cynicism is a blank check for failure.

Phox

Quote from: Pickled Starfish on April 20, 2011, 03:20:12 PM
even though it's fallen out of use as commonly accepted currency, it still retains values necessary for a good medium of exchange: portable, easily weighted and divided, able to be easily marked with a given value, and difficult to counterfeit.

all reasons to assume it would go back to being a currency useful for exchanging goods and services.
All of those criteria are just as applicable to grain, animal hides, glass beads, and maple leaves. What makes gold so special? I personally do not find it very aesthetically pleasing, so unless everyone else is trading in gold, I have no reason to do so.

Quote from: Iptuous on April 20, 2011, 03:27:44 PM
if there is some sort of catastrophe, i expect the immediate currency will be canned/dry food, and ammunition.  however there is only so much of that you can buy before you need to have a more robust slab on your house.
after you reach that point, gold seems like a good option.  and it should be used after the zombies are dead and people are trying to return to normal.

and Phox.... you would view gold as a good medium of exchange if the crazy hillbilly in town with a ton of long storage food and ammunition says that's the only thing he'll take. (apart from your general horse trading...)
You're assuming that the zombies will all die and people will want to return to normal. If that's the case, I'd be going a-plunderin'.

Phox,
Is that crazy hillbilly. Does not accept gold.

Quote from: Laughin Jude on April 20, 2011, 05:03:35 PM
If the zombie apocalypse happens and I'm sitting on a bunch of food and water and someone offers me gold in exchange for my stuff, I'm saying fuck it, gold's just as worthless as paper money; come back when you have something useful to trade me. Likewise, if someone else in this theoretical post-apocalyptic world will trade me hard-to-find food and water for my useless shiny rocks, that person's a goddamn sucker.
This.

Quote from: Khara on April 20, 2011, 07:56:27 PM
I think if there is a zombie apocolypse, currency is going to be the least of anyone's concerns.  If it had to be a metal, I would say lead...
Also this.

Elder Iptuous

I could argue those points, but the 'you can't eat gold' idea seems to be pretty strong in a lot of people.  To each their own. The demand is increasing despite the nay sayers.

So, why do you think central banks are buying the stuff at increasing rates?  Are they fools?

Phox

Quote from: Iptuous on April 20, 2011, 09:13:11 PM
I could argue those points, but the 'you can't eat gold' idea seems to be pretty strong in a lot of people.  To each their own. The demand is increasing despite the nay sayers.

So, why do you think central banks are buying the stuff at increasing rates?  Are they fools?
Artificial value =/= valuable in zombieland.

Disco Pickle

Quote from: Doktor Phox on April 20, 2011, 09:16:46 PM
Quote from: Iptuous on April 20, 2011, 09:13:11 PM
I could argue those points, but the 'you can't eat gold' idea seems to be pretty strong in a lot of people.  To each their own. The demand is increasing despite the nay sayers.

So, why do you think central banks are buying the stuff at increasing rates?  Are they fools?
Artificial value =/= valuable in zombieland.

what do you mean by artificial value?

and currencies were created to fix the problem in bartering of two things being exchanged having a different real value.  Zombie apocalypse aside, that would still be useful given a sufficiently large enough trading population.
"Events in the past may be roughly divided into those which probably never happened and those which do not matter." --William Ralph Inge

"sometimes someone confesses a sin in order to take credit for it." -- John Von Neumann

Phox

Quote from: Pickled Starfish on April 20, 2011, 09:24:52 PM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on April 20, 2011, 09:16:46 PM
Quote from: Iptuous on April 20, 2011, 09:13:11 PM
I could argue those points, but the 'you can't eat gold' idea seems to be pretty strong in a lot of people.  To each their own. The demand is increasing despite the nay sayers.

So, why do you think central banks are buying the stuff at increasing rates?  Are they fools?
Artificial value =/= valuable in zombieland.

what do you mean by artificial value?

]and currencies were created to fix the problem in bartering of two things being exchanged having a different real value. 
That is precisely what I mean. The value placed on gold, silver, jewels, and paper currency is artificial/cultural. It's not intrinsic to the item, it's based on an assigned value

Disco Pickle

Quote from: Doktor Phox on April 20, 2011, 09:39:07 PM
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on April 20, 2011, 09:24:52 PM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on April 20, 2011, 09:16:46 PM
Quote from: Iptuous on April 20, 2011, 09:13:11 PM
I could argue those points, but the 'you can't eat gold' idea seems to be pretty strong in a lot of people.  To each their own. The demand is increasing despite the nay sayers.

So, why do you think central banks are buying the stuff at increasing rates?  Are they fools?
Artificial value =/= valuable in zombieland.

what do you mean by artificial value?

]and currencies were created to fix the problem in bartering of two things being exchanged having a different real value. 
That is precisely what I mean. The value placed on gold, silver, jewels, and paper currency is artificial/cultural. It's not intrinsic to the item, it's based on an assigned value

it's value of anything is assigned by the person who owns it, and value is set by how much another person is willing to work or trade for it.   I may have something you want and are willing to say: trade me by doing work equivalent to what we agree upon is a fair amount of work in exchange.  Lets say I don't need any work done, but know a guy who does need about the same amount of work you're offering me in exchange for my product, who also happens to have something of similar value that I want, it's simply a matter of giving you the thing you want if you agree to work for this other guy in exchange for what I want from him.  Your work has just been used as a currency, and we both agreed on what it was worth based on how much you were willing to do.   

In other words, the value of EVERYTHING is artificially set by the people exchanging it.  Metals were used because of their scarcity, or difficulty in obtaining easily, thus allowing them to retain a given value.  If you pick a currency that is easy to obtain, it will quickly loose value as everyone will be able to have it without expending any effort, or work. 

something like this was in part of The Hitchhikers Guide, when the ship carrying the people that would eventually populate the earth crash landed and began using tree leaves as currency.  Naturally, inflation and devaluation was out of control.
"Events in the past may be roughly divided into those which probably never happened and those which do not matter." --William Ralph Inge

"sometimes someone confesses a sin in order to take credit for it." -- John Von Neumann