Proposition of New Terminology Concerning Belief

[Salty]

Relevant, if silly: http://uctaa.net/

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

What if the idea of God, certain conversations with random unfortunates aside, just isn't something that enters my mind? If someone else doesn't bring it up to me, what should compel me to think about God at all? If I don't then how can I believe or disbelieve?

I just don't care if there's a God any more than I care about a monkey I don't have anything to do with and never will. It's like I was carrying this puzzle for years, twisting it over in my head, looking for cracks and clues. Then I put the fucker down started taking care of things that had an actual impact on how I live my life.

I don't care what Penn Gillette thinks about God, or what he thinks people who think about God think about, either.

Something that I have found very interesting is how many people, particularly atheists, are unsettled by the idea that the existence or non-existence of god might simply be irrelevant to someone.

[Salty]

I find Discordianism to be a perfect example of how that works.

"What? You don't give a shit about my made up joke religion I take seriously. HUH. HOW ABOUT THAT. YOU DON'T GIVE A FUCK. OH THAT's actually ok fnord."

[East Coast Hustle]

What if the idea of God, certain conversations with random unfortunates aside, just isn't something that enters my mind? If someone else doesn't bring it up to me, what should compel me to think about God at all? If I don't then how can I believe or disbelieve?

I just don't care if there's a God any more than I care about a monkey I don't have anything to do with and never will. It's like I was carrying this puzzle for years, twisting it over in my head, looking for cracks and clues. Then I put the fucker down started taking care of things that had an actual impact on how I live my life.

I don't care what Penn Gillette thinks about God, or what he thinks people who think about God think about, either.

Something that I have found very interesting is how many people, particularly atheists, are unsettled by the idea that the existence or non-existence of god might simply be irrelevant to someone.

Good point. And one of the reasons I don't bother identifying myself as an atheist even though I don't believe that God exists. They've made a religion out of non-religion. I don't believe God exists (and I personally think the whole idea is incomprehensibly stupid), but if God DID exist I wouldn't give a shit or change a single thing about how i live my life. And I'm sure that I have ideas that other people find incomprehensibly stupid so whether or not someone believes in God is of little consequence to how I view them as a person. The manner in which they ACT on that belief can have a great deal of influence in how I view them as a person, but then so can how an atheist acts on their non-belief.

[Bu🤠ns]

I like your putting the whole thing on a spectrum, NWC.  With all the fast-paced anxiety people seem to be going through these days it's almost like they're (we're?) REALLY looking for something to hold on to...quick and easy prepackaged belief for the masses...whether it's a Belief or a Non-Belief it's a still "thing." 

After being around these parts of the internet, I enjoy taking on the creative process that goes with having a flexible belief system.  Perceiving the relativity of my perceptions affords me the option of not taking things too seriously. 

If a person is hell bent on believing in God or not believing in God, that's really up to them, but I think, at the same time, shows a lot about where they might be attached...if they, of course, take it to that extreme where they fall into pure "belief." Knowing where someone stands sort of shows where a person is vulnerable and controllable.

I kinda found a sense of comfort about not /really/ knowing for sure. There's a certain mystery about that. Maybe that's where the dead center is on your chart.  Maybe it's not knowing what the fuck is going on and just being cool with it....Enjoying the ride.

[P3nT4gR4m]

What if the idea of God, certain conversations with random unfortunates aside, just isn't something that enters my mind? If someone else doesn't bring it up to me, what should compel me to think about God at all? If I don't then how can I believe or disbelieve?

I just don't care if there's a God any more than I care about a monkey I don't have anything to do with and never will. It's like I was carrying this puzzle for years, twisting it over in my head, looking for cracks and clues. Then I put the fucker down started taking care of things that had an actual impact on how I live my life.

I don't care what Penn Gillette thinks about God, or what he thinks people who think about God think about, either.

Something that I have found very interesting is how many people, particularly atheists, are unsettled by the idea that the existence or non-existence of god might simply be irrelevant to someone.

THIS, to the power a million! Funnily enough it's where I stand. Either there's a god or there isn't. Means slightly less than fuck all to me until such a time as god approaches me and asks for or offers me something.

I've argued both sides against believers and rampant atheists enough times to have worked out that they are actually both exactly the same - evangelical believers in something that can't be proven.

[Cainad (dec.)]

Good point. And one of the reasons I don't bother identifying myself as an atheist even though I don't believe that God exists. They've made a religion out of non-religion. I don't believe God exists (and I personally think the whole idea is incomprehensibly stupid), but if God DID exist I wouldn't give a shit or change a single thing about how i live my life. And I'm sure that I have ideas that other people find incomprehensibly stupid so whether or not someone believes in God is of little consequence to how I view them as a person. The manner in which they ACT on that belief can have a great deal of influence in how I view them as a person, but then so can how an atheist acts on their non-belief.

This is pretty much exactly where I stand these days. I don't identify as atheist, partly to avoid being lumped in with the Dawkins crowd and their ilk. Agnostic is the short answer I give to people when I don't want to discuss the issue (which I usually don't).

The best "isms" to describe my position on the matter are Apatheism and Ignosticism. The former is acting with disregard or lack of interest in the belief of lack of belief in a deity. The latter is the position that the question of whether or not a god exists is a meaningless question until what "god" is has been defined.

[East Coast Hustle]

Oh, I never heard those terms before! Thanks Cainad!

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Those are really good terms, and useful! Usually when people ask me if I believe in god I like to act like I don't understand them, and then look surprised and confused and say "I... gosh, I've never really thought about it".

People really don't like that at all, is what I've noticed.

[Cainad (dec.)]

Those are really good terms, and useful! Usually when people ask me if I believe in god I like to act like I don't understand them, and then look surprised and confused and say "I... gosh, I've never really thought about it".

People really don't like that at all, is what I've noticed.

I shall have to try this sometime.


I'm glad I could contribute something useful to the thread. Sadly, both of those terms are uncommon enough that you'll probably still have to do a little explaining for most people. Agnosticism remains the go-to word for "here's your answer, now can we talk about something that I don't hate talking about with most people?", at least in my case.

[P3nT4gR4m]

Those words might be useful to me if I was in the business of explaining to people where I stand on god but the truth of the matter is, if someone brings it up, you can pretty much guarantee I'm going straight into troll-mode. It's the nature of the beast. 

[LMNO]

It makes sense, P3nt.  I mean, what does someone expect when they bring up the possibility of god's existence IRL conversation?  If you're already friends, it's a weird topic, and I suppose it could be a fun discussion, because you're already friends (for example, this thread).  But if they're relative strangers and they bring it up, then... that's more of a litmus test, isn't it?  They don't want to listen to your ideas, they want you to answer the right way.  Which means it's kind of our duty to fuck with them.

[P3nT4gR4m]

Dunno of "duty" is the right word. Is it my "duty" to hold my breath when I suddenly find my head underwater? No. It's just something that naturally happens 

[Random Probability]

On a related note (meaning the subject of bringing up the subject), I find it a fascinating indicator of the relative maturity level of a group.  You see this a lot in school children.  Around six years old they start asking one another about this topic as a way of dividing everyone it neat little "us" and "them" categories. Since I'm never an "us" or a "them" (not being plural, you see), I take offense to such propositions. So if it ever comes up, say, at the workplace I quickly realize I'm dealing with a bunch of immature twats (and we all know what to do with twats).  Let the hilarity ensue.

[Oysters Rockefeller]

They don't want to listen to your ideas, they want you to answer the right way.  Which means it's kind of our duty to fuck with them.

I'm afraid if I agree with this anymore I'll give myself whiplash.

Although, living in the bible belt, I find it is also my duty to not get the shit kicked out of me.

!rB>C's comment about people seperating each other is also fairly excellent.  Unfortunately, religion is sort of devised to seperate the "good" and "bad", but ends up creating assholes on every conceivable side of the issue.