Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Aneristic Illusions => Topic started by: Iason Ouabache on December 10, 2009, 05:14:50 PM

Title: Kindles = Hitler
Post by: Iason Ouabache on December 10, 2009, 05:14:50 PM
Behold! The Ultimate Godwin Ever!!!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alan-kaufman/google-books-and-kindles_b_380536.html

QuoteWhen I hear the term Kindle I think not of imaginations fired but of crematoria lit. And when I hear the term "hi-tech" I think not of helpful androids efficiently performing household chores or light-speed rockets gliding seamlessly through space but of the fact that between 1933-45, modern technology was used to perform in ever more efficient ways the mass murder of six million of my people. The instruments of so-called progress, placed in the hands of the modern state, disappeared six million Jewish men, women and children, into a void from which they will never return and in which a majority of them remain forever unidentified. This was done in the name of progress by means of technology for the creation of a better world.

The Nazis often were, by their own lights, well-intentioned idealists working for a better tomorrow. And their instrument was modern technology, aspects of philosophical and aesthetic modernism and the old religious concept of supercession implicit in the Christian notion of progress. Jews were outmoded, useless, they said. Most high level Nazis, like Himmler or Heydrich or Eichmann, did not feel visceral hatred towards the Jew. Rather, they looked upon them coldly as something that simply needed to disappear so that the new life could get on its way. And the means by which they sought to do so was first through a propaganda campaign that portrayed Jews, in Wagnerian terms, as a drag on the visionary energies and bursting vigor of the new Aryan man, and then by the implementation of this decision to eliminate Jews through ever more sophisticated state corporate and scientific technological means. And yet, during the war crime trials at Nuremberg, while Nazi Jurisprudence was tried and hanged, Nazi technological attitudes were not put on trial.

The victorious Allies did not mandate that technology, which had been turned to such murderous ends, must pass an ethical standard review from an international body, like a UN of technology. No such body of decision came about. To the contrary, even while the war crime trials of Nazi chieftains were in session, American and Soviet governments were recruiting high-level Nazis to their intelligence services, military armaments industries, and space programs. So that, while in jurisprudence terms Nazi social and political values were delivered a blow, the Nazi fascination with technology merged seamlessly with that of their conquerors: us.

That is why today we drive Volkswagens, which were invented by Hitler, and use space heaters from companies that may once have manufactured crematoria and why Werner Von Braun, the Nazi father of the V-2 rocket became an American space pioneer hero studied in public schools. Nazi Technology and corporate methodology was folded handily into American feel-good Capitalist culture. That is the very point of the brilliant satire, "Dr. Strangelove".

So that now, sixty four years after the Holocaust, the Nazi disdain for the book has become the feel-good Hi-Tech campaign to rid the world of books in place of massive easily controlled centralized repositories of book texts downloadable on little hand-held devices and from which a text can be dissapeared with the click of a mouse: in Nazi terms, a dream come true.
Title: Re: Kindles = Hitler
Post by: AFK on December 10, 2009, 05:19:34 PM
You gotta be kidding me.  Really? 
Title: Re: Kindles = Hitler
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on December 10, 2009, 05:22:28 PM
I can see the concern.

But it doesn't have to be Nazis doing it.  PC advocates would love this, too.

Remember Huckleberry Finn?

*poof*

Neither do I.
Title: Re: Kindles = Hitler
Post by: Dysfunctional Cunt on December 10, 2009, 05:35:10 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 10, 2009, 05:22:28 PM
I can see the concern.

But it doesn't have to be Nazis doing it.  PC advocates would love this, too.

Remember Huckleberry Finn?

*poof*

Neither do I.

And don't admit it if you do right?
Title: Re: Kindles = Hitler
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on December 10, 2009, 05:39:46 PM
Quote from: Khara on December 10, 2009, 05:35:10 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 10, 2009, 05:22:28 PM
I can see the concern.

But it doesn't have to be Nazis doing it.  PC advocates would love this, too.

Remember Huckleberry Finn?

*poof*

Neither do I.

And don't admit it if you do right?

Admit what?
Title: Re: Kindles = Hitler
Post by: Iason Ouabache on December 10, 2009, 06:01:06 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 10, 2009, 05:22:28 PM
I can see the concern.

But it doesn't have to be Nazis doing it.  PC advocates would love this, too.

Remember Huckleberry Finn?

*poof*

Neither do I.
http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/76

I get your point. It's shitty that people have tried to ban it in various places but ebooks will make it easier to distribute content that was been deemed "subversive" or "harmful to the public". It's much easier to e-mail a PDF to a hundred people than to pass out a hundred dead tree books.
Title: Re: Kindles = Hitler
Post by: LMNO on December 10, 2009, 06:13:29 PM
KINDLE MACHT FREI!
  \
:mccain:
Title: Re: Kindles = Hitler
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on December 10, 2009, 06:20:18 PM
Quote from: Iason Ouabache on December 10, 2009, 06:01:06 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 10, 2009, 05:22:28 PM
I can see the concern.

But it doesn't have to be Nazis doing it.  PC advocates would love this, too.

Remember Huckleberry Finn?

*poof*

Neither do I.
http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/76

I get your point. It's shitty that people have tried to ban it in various places but ebooks will make it easier to distribute content that was been deemed "subversive" or "harmful to the public". It's much easier to e-mail a PDF to a hundred people than to pass out a hundred dead tree books.

Unless Amazon goes in and erases everyones' copies when they sync up.  Which has already happened.
Title: Re: Kindles = Hitler
Post by: Chief Uwachiquen on December 10, 2009, 06:24:34 PM
Quote from: LMNO on December 10, 2009, 06:13:29 PM
KINDLE MC'FREI!
  \
(http://wiki.ytmnd.com/images/7/7b/Jitz.gif)

Fix'd.
Title: Re: Kindles = Hitler
Post by: LMNO on December 10, 2009, 06:36:41 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 10, 2009, 06:20:18 PM
Quote from: Iason Ouabache on December 10, 2009, 06:01:06 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 10, 2009, 05:22:28 PM
I can see the concern.

But it doesn't have to be Nazis doing it.  PC advocates would love this, too.

Remember Huckleberry Finn?

*poof*

Neither do I.
http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/76

I get your point. It's shitty that people have tried to ban it in various places but ebooks will make it easier to distribute content that was been deemed "subversive" or "harmful to the public". It's much easier to e-mail a PDF to a hundred people than to pass out a hundred dead tree books.

Unless Amazon goes in and erases everyones' copies when they sync up.  Which has already happened.

Only possible if you didn't save the copies to your desktop first.
Title: Re: Kindles = Hitler
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on December 10, 2009, 06:37:47 PM
Quote from: LMNO on December 10, 2009, 06:36:41 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 10, 2009, 06:20:18 PM
Quote from: Iason Ouabache on December 10, 2009, 06:01:06 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 10, 2009, 05:22:28 PM
I can see the concern.

But it doesn't have to be Nazis doing it.  PC advocates would love this, too.

Remember Huckleberry Finn?

*poof*

Neither do I.
http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/76

I get your point. It's shitty that people have tried to ban it in various places but ebooks will make it easier to distribute content that was been deemed "subversive" or "harmful to the public". It's much easier to e-mail a PDF to a hundred people than to pass out a hundred dead tree books.

Unless Amazon goes in and erases everyones' copies when they sync up.  Which has already happened.

Only possible if you didn't save the copies to your desktop first.

What percentage of people bother doing that?  Also, it's only a matter of time before they go diving into your desktop the way Microsoft does now.
Title: Re: Kindles = Hitler
Post by: Reginald Ret on December 10, 2009, 06:45:48 PM
yeah it's a fucked up world we live in.


one other thing
i don't get why they called it a kindle, isn't that what you use to start fire with?
It's like they told their customers how they were going to treat them (book burning)
Title: Re: Kindles = Hitler
Post by: LMNO on December 10, 2009, 06:50:08 PM
What they did was, they Nouned a Verb.

"To Kindle" is to start a fire; they meant metaphorically, as in "to excite, arouse or animate".


But yeah, poor choice, if you asked me.

PS - the stuff that you start a fire with is "kindling".



PPS - "To kindle" also means to give birth to rabbits.  Srsly.

Title: Re: Kindles = Hitler
Post by: Reginald Ret on December 10, 2009, 06:58:46 PM
Quote from: LMNO on December 10, 2009, 06:50:08 PM
PPS - "To kindle" also means to give birth to rabbits.  Srsly.
So they were saying: if you see our product lying somewhere without moving it has mixomatosis  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myxomatosis)and should be stomped on vigorously to cease the suffering?
Title: Re: Kindles = Hitler
Post by: on December 10, 2009, 08:23:50 PM
With new iterations of technology, I don't feel that this necessarily makes the old technology obsolete.
Books on paper will never, and should never, be obsolete.
Also Record Players, Typewriters, and VCR's aren't obsolete either.
I'm sure there are other examples, but those are my favorites.

Anachronistic technology is the best technology.
Title: Re: Kindles = Hitler
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on December 10, 2009, 08:25:12 PM
Quote from: Z³ on December 10, 2009, 08:23:50 PM
With new iterations of technology, I don't feel that this necessarily makes the old technology obsolete.
Books on paper will never, and should never, be obsolete.
Also Record Players, Typewriters, and VCR's aren't obsolete either.
I'm sure there are other examples, but those are my favorites.

Anachronistic technology is the best technology.

I'm still leery about "zippers" and "belt loops".

TGRR,
Online Luddite
Title: Re: Kindles = Hitler
Post by: Cain on December 10, 2009, 08:25:58 PM
The difference of course is that the Nazis ruled a country, whereas Amazon is an internet company.  A shitty internet company, who do not understand the concept of selling things (or, indeed, sending them, occasionally), but a company nonetheless.

If you're worried about Amazon doing a book burning parade, you can do two things:

1) not own a Kindle
2) buy books from someone else

Not only hyperbole, but also category failure.
Title: Re: Kindles = Hitler
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on December 10, 2009, 08:32:56 PM
Quote from: Cain on December 10, 2009, 08:25:58 PM
The difference of course is that the Nazis ruled a country, whereas Amazon is an internet company.  A shitty internet company, who do not understand the concept of selling things (or, indeed, sending them, occasionally), but a company nonetheless.

If you're worried about Amazon doing a book burning parade, you can do two things:

1) not own a Kindle
2) buy books from someone else

Not only hyperbole, but also category failure.

Sure.  Not saying he's RIGHT, just that I understand the concern.
Title: Re: Kindles = Hitler
Post by: Cain on December 10, 2009, 08:37:28 PM
Oh yeah, I don't want Amazon stealing my shit, either, if I paid for it.

But at the same time, if they do start acting like (even bigger) jerks...well, Sony and Foxit have decent ebook readers, and you can buy ebooks directly from the publishers.  So its not so much ZOMG NAZIS as Amazon's stupidity will overwhelm their brand recognition, if it continues.
Title: Re: Kindles = Hitler
Post by: Rumckle on December 10, 2009, 10:00:00 PM
Quote from: Z³ on December 10, 2009, 08:23:50 PM

Also Record Players, Typewriters, and VCR's aren't obsolete either.


:cn:

I mean, I know people who own them, and still use them (my sister want's a 70's typewriter for xmas) but that is more of a retro thing than real use of them. I mean, some people will use them, but not nearly as much as the new technology, and as time goes on less and less people will use them.
Title: Re: Kindles = Hitler
Post by: on December 10, 2009, 11:11:03 PM
Quote from: Rumckle on December 10, 2009, 10:00:00 PM
Quote from: Z³ on December 10, 2009, 08:23:50 PM

Also Record Players, Typewriters, and VCR's aren't obsolete either.


:cn:

I mean, I know people who own them, and still use them (my sister want's a 70's typewriter for xmas) but that is more of a retro thing than real use of them. I mean, some people will use them, but not nearly as much as the new technology, and as time goes on less and less people will use them.

Less people will use them, but they still have specific advantages over more modern forms of tech.

VCR's: As a person who isn't obsessed with picture quality, and doesn't give two shits about HD, these are perfect. Tapes, while bulky, don't get scratched. And I can still use VCR's to record things off of television, like movies or TV shows, so that I can watch them when I want to watch them... if its a TV show, I can fast-forward through the commercials. I don't have to pay some cable company for the privilege of putting a special box in my home for me to do this. Also, I get a HARD COPY, which is nice. While overtime, the quality of picture of tapes can degrade, I have to say that most of my VHS tapes still play nice.

Oh, and when the case gets fucked, or the tape gets tangled in the VCR or something like that (Which its been a long time since this has happened to me) I can usually fix it. Of course, they don't release new movies on this format, but that's ok. If I really want a new movie on tape, I'll record it, but it doesn't really matter since almost all movies are crap anyway.

Record Player: Ask any audiophile about the differences between analog and digital and they'll talk your ear off. I'm not that pretentious about it, but I will say that I find it a lot more difficult to fuck up a record than a CD. I have tons of CD's, most of them I spent money on. There was a period in my life where I probably gave away a lot of money this way, in some cases for CD's that I've had to buy like three or four times. Oh sure, you can tell me to take better care of my CD's, but they're small and so easy to damage and ontop of that I have almost a thousand of these fucking things. I cant imagine lugging around 1000 cd's with the jewel cases intact, and all pristine, with me every time I move.

I don't have nearly that many records, but I find that records are easier to take care of, easier to love, and harder to fuck up. Also they retain their value better, sometimes increasing in value as time goes on. I cant say the same thing about CD's, except in rare cases.

Typewriters: Its nice to have a writing machine that isn't plugged into the grid.

I intend to resist the new way, wherever possible. Sadly, life has dictated to me that I need a phone I can carry around with me. Right now, its benefits outweigh the fact that it puts me even further on the grid... A dot, that moves around, constantly updating its position. Not only that, its a portable camera and microphone. By carrying one of these fuckers around I'm a willing accomplice of the machine, but damnit I needs it.

Obviously, I am not yet ready for The Mountain.

As far as kindle, or other E-readers, I can see the uses of them... but me, personally, I'll stick to the old ways.
Title: Re: Kindles = Hitler
Post by: Rumckle on December 10, 2009, 11:53:46 PM
Digital copies are only lossy if you want them to be.
And yes, I agree that CDs aren't that great, I'd prefer records (or minidisks, but they never really got off the ground).

Plus I agree with you on books, I'd much prefer real books to ebooks, but ebooks are cheaper, and saves me carrying several kgs of textbooks around the place.
Title: Re: Kindles = Hitler
Post by: Requia ☣ on December 11, 2009, 12:07:27 AM
Why are you rebuying CDs? It's called resurfacing.  Costs a couple bucks a disk.  Or you can buy your own equipment if you have a lot of it.

The bad quality on CDs has nothing to do with the format, its because records are a shoddy format that wouldn't support the poor recording practices of the loudness wars.

Records also scratch up even easier than CDs.  At least CD and DVD players don't destroy the disks themselves (well except XBOXs).

Jewel cases sucking I'll agree with though.
Title: Re: Kindles = Hitler
Post by: on December 11, 2009, 01:22:56 AM
Quote from: Requia ☣ on December 11, 2009, 12:07:27 AM
Why are you rebuying CDs? It's called resurfacing.  Costs a couple bucks a disk.  Or you can buy your own equipment if you have a lot of it.

The bad quality on CDs has nothing to do with the format, its because records are a shoddy format that wouldn't support the poor recording practices of the loudness wars.

Records also scratch up even easier than CDs.  At least CD and DVD players don't destroy the disks themselves (well except XBOXs).

Jewel cases sucking I'll agree with though.

Its not a matter of CD's having bad quality. Its just that the difference between an analog recording and a digital one tends to be that digital recordings cut out all the sounds that we cant fucking hear anyway, and audiophiles will often argue that the quality of analog is better as a result, its not an argument I really care about.

As far as resurfacing goes, you can really only do it once. And its not really a big deal to me, but yes, I have resurfaced CD's.

Vinyl is easy to scratch, but I tend to take care of my vinyl because I look at it as something that will retain its value. I never felt that collectors impulse with CD'. As far as recording quality on Vinyl, most of its stellar. Of course, any full length album is usually two LP's, but that's just the way it goes.

There is this company, I forget the name, but they rereleased a bunch of kinda old weird stuff on Vinyl. So when I saw a copy of Mr. Bungles' Disco Volante on Vinyl, I was fucking pumped. Come to find out, it was on a single LP and didnt contain any of the original packaging, and the sound quality was CRAP... I mean I had to turn my record players volume ALL THE WAY UP in order for it to be audible. But that sort of stuff is pretty uncommon, in my experience.

Mind you, I'm not even saying that CD's are bad, or DVD's, or anything else. I just dont feel that the old tech loses its value just because newer tech exists. I even still have 8 tracks, although I find it difficult to find an advantage to them compared to cassettes (which I still like), or anything else.

Also, I dont rebuy cd's , I stopped doing that crap years ago.

Title: Re: Kindles = Hitler
Post by: BabylonHoruv on December 11, 2009, 02:28:26 AM
Quote from: Z³ on December 10, 2009, 11:11:03 PM
Quote from: Rumckle on December 10, 2009, 10:00:00 PM
Quote from: Z³ on December 10, 2009, 08:23:50 PM

Also Record Players, Typewriters, and VCR's aren't obsolete either.


:cn:

I mean, I know people who own them, and still use them (my sister want's a 70's typewriter for xmas) but that is more of a retro thing than real use of them. I mean, some people will use them, but not nearly as much as the new technology, and as time goes on less and less people will use them.

Less people will use them, but they still have specific advantages over more modern forms of tech.

VCR's: As a person who isn't obsessed with picture quality, and doesn't give two shits about HD, these are perfect. Tapes, while bulky, don't get scratched. And I can still use VCR's to record things off of television, like movies or TV shows, so that I can watch them when I want to watch them... if its a TV show, I can fast-forward through the commercials. I don't have to pay some cable company for the privilege of putting a special box in my home for me to do this. Also, I get a HARD COPY, which is nice. While overtime, the quality of picture of tapes can degrade, I have to say that most of my VHS tapes still play nice.

Oh, and when the case gets fucked, or the tape gets tangled in the VCR or something like that (Which its been a long time since this has happened to me) I can usually fix it. Of course, they don't release new movies on this format, but that's ok. If I really want a new movie on tape, I'll record it, but it doesn't really matter since almost all movies are crap anyway.

Record Player: Ask any audiophile about the differences between analog and digital and they'll talk your ear off. I'm not that pretentious about it, but I will say that I find it a lot more difficult to fuck up a record than a CD. I have tons of CD's, most of them I spent money on. There was a period in my life where I probably gave away a lot of money this way, in some cases for CD's that I've had to buy like three or four times. Oh sure, you can tell me to take better care of my CD's, but they're small and so easy to damage and ontop of that I have almost a thousand of these fucking things. I cant imagine lugging around 1000 cd's with the jewel cases intact, and all pristine, with me every time I move.

I don't have nearly that many records, but I find that records are easier to take care of, easier to love, and harder to fuck up. Also they retain their value better, sometimes increasing in value as time goes on. I cant say the same thing about CD's, except in rare cases.

Typewriters: Its nice to have a writing machine that isn't plugged into the grid.

I intend to resist the new way, wherever possible. Sadly, life has dictated to me that I need a phone I can carry around with me. Right now, its benefits outweigh the fact that it puts me even further on the grid... A dot, that moves around, constantly updating its position. Not only that, its a portable camera and microphone. By carrying one of these fuckers around I'm a willing accomplice of the machine, but damnit I needs it.

Obviously, I am not yet ready for The Mountain.

As far as kindle, or other E-readers, I can see the uses of them... but me, personally, I'll stick to the old ways.

Records also have a huge following among DJ's.  You really can't spin CD's the same way, not even if you have one of those digital turntables.

For me the kindle is going to have a really hard time replacing the paper book.  I read a lot on my computer, but I can't take a big bulky electronic gadget into the bathroom with me, especially into the bathtub.  I can a dead tree book.  Also the stupid thing doesn't read PDF's.
Title: Re: Kindles = Hitler
Post by: LMNO on December 11, 2009, 02:33:56 AM
Yes, it does.

Also, a 5x10x0.5 Kindle is MUCH less bulky than the last 1000 page book I read on it.

LMNO
-Don't believe the hype.
Title: Re: Kindles = Hitler
Post by: East Coast Hustle on December 11, 2009, 04:09:04 AM
Quote from: Z³ on December 11, 2009, 01:22:56 AM
Quote from: Requia ☣ on December 11, 2009, 12:07:27 AM
Why are you rebuying CDs? It's called resurfacing.  Costs a couple bucks a disk.  Or you can buy your own equipment if you have a lot of it.

The bad quality on CDs has nothing to do with the format, its because records are a shoddy format that wouldn't support the poor recording practices of the loudness wars.

Records also scratch up even easier than CDs.  At least CD and DVD players don't destroy the disks themselves (well except XBOXs).

Jewel cases sucking I'll agree with though.

Its not a matter of CD's having bad quality. Its just that the difference between an analog recording and a digital one tends to be that digital recordings cut out all the sounds that we cant fucking hear anyway, and audiophiles will often argue that the quality of analog is better as a result, its not an argument I really care about.

As far as resurfacing goes, you can really only do it once. And its not really a big deal to me, but yes, I have resurfaced CD's.

Vinyl is easy to scratch, but I tend to take care of my vinyl because I look at it as something that will retain its value. I never felt that collectors impulse with CD'. As far as recording quality on Vinyl, most of its stellar. Of course, any full length album is usually two LP's, but that's just the way it goes.

There is this company, I forget the name, but they rereleased a bunch of kinda old weird stuff on Vinyl. So when I saw a copy of Mr. Bungles' Disco Volante on Vinyl, I was fucking pumped. Come to find out, it was on a single LP and didnt contain any of the original packaging, and the sound quality was CRAP... I mean I had to turn my record players volume ALL THE WAY UP in order for it to be audible. But that sort of stuff is pretty uncommon, in my experience.

Mind you, I'm not even saying that CD's are bad, or DVD's, or anything else. I just dont feel that the old tech loses its value just because newer tech exists. I even still have 8 tracks, although I find it difficult to find an advantage to them compared to cassettes (which I still like), or anything else.

Also, I dont rebuy cd's , I stopped doing that crap years ago.



I am and probably always will be of the opinion that cassette tapes are VASTLY superior to CDs or digital audio formats.
Title: Re: Kindles = Hitler
Post by: Triple Zero on December 11, 2009, 01:19:45 PM
Quote from: Z³ on December 11, 2009, 01:22:56 AMIts not a matter of CD's having bad quality. Its just that the difference between an analog recording and a digital one tends to be that digital recordings cut out all the sounds that we cant fucking hear anyway, and audiophiles will often argue that the quality of analog is better as a result, its not an argument I really care about.

it's also not true. try listening to an audiophile that actually knows their shit next time. it's true that there are some things records can do that CD's can't do, but it's nothing that would show up in any blind listener test a serious audiophile would do. Which is why they don't. Because, like food, the difference in listening pleasure of CD versus Vinyl is in the presentation. Unlike food, not many are willing to admit this.

And then, if you want indestructable, try SD memory cards. They survive a fire and you can drive a truck over them.

You can record music (FLAC is lossless, but for someone that believes "digital recordings cut out all the sounds we cant fucking hear anyway", trust me, I'm an Certified Audiophile for True Sound TM and 192kbps MP3 is perfectly lossless, just magically smaller. Hell, it even adds fidelity you couldnt even fucking hear anyway.)

You can also record video on an SD card. You don't need to rewind it, quality is better, does not degrade like VCR, you can fastforward and rewind much faster and easier than with a videotape, you can actually cut out or edit pieces after you recorded them, you can also record stuff that is not on TV with it, such as downloaded movies or documentaries on Google Video, youtube clips or TED Talks, and you can download subtitles in any language, also english subs for foreign movies.

No, your so called "advantages" to these old technologies are not the reason why you stick to them.

If you wanted indestructable, you'd use SD cards. You say you keep using VCRs because of these advantages, but that's bullshit.

You are just lazy and reluctant to switch to new technology.

So don't kid yourself and don't kid us. It's a perfectly good reason. Or at least, it's a lot better and more honest to everyone involved than all the dumb and uninformed excuses you are making.

QuoteMind you, I'm not even saying that CD's are bad, or DVD's, or anything else. I just dont feel that the old tech loses its value just because newer tech exists.

except that it does, on all fronts, except for the part where you don't want to figure out how to use the new tech.

QuoteAlso, I dont rebuy cd's , I stopped doing that crap years ago.

Well, duh, I ripped all my CDs to my computer and haven't opened a CD box since. If I lose, break or scratch a CD I will download it, which in that case is actually legal because I already paid the copyrights on it (as it doesn't matter where I get my backup copy from, just that I have the right to own one).

QuoteTypewriters: Its nice to have a writing machine that isn't plugged into the grid.

Stop making excuses, damnit. If you really wanted that, you'd use a fucking pencil. A typewriter is way too clunky to be of any use except nostalgic value.

Title: Re: Kindles = Hitler
Post by: LMNO on December 11, 2009, 01:29:13 PM
I like records because of the surface noise.


It gives off a fake sense of nostalgia, and I'm not afraid to admit that.
Title: Re: Kindles = Hitler
Post by: AFK on December 11, 2009, 01:53:12 PM
Ditto. 

And cassettes were great because they were small and portable.  The problem was when it was an album you really, really, really liked and you played it over, and over, and over again.  That tape gets worn out and starts getting all jammed up in the cassette player innerds.  Or they'd just freeze up and stop playing. 

CDs are fine enough.  I do love the ability to skip over filler songs on albums and not have to play the guessing game with the forward or reverse button.  It's mp3's that bug me.  I don't fancy myself an audiophile but damn they just sound lifeless compared to CD's and other older formats.  And I can tell instantly when they are playing MP3's on Sirius compared to a CD.  It has that swishy kinda sound. 
Title: Re: Kindles = Hitler
Post by: Reginald Ret on December 11, 2009, 03:40:22 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on December 11, 2009, 01:53:12 PM
That tape gets worn out and starts getting all jammed up in the cassette player innerds.  Or they'd just freeze up and stop playing. 
That is a problem withyour cassette player, not your cassette. Extremely overused cassettes just get stretched and worn tape, sound quality gets sucky and parts sound slowed down.
Title: Re: Kindles = Hitler
Post by: AFK on December 11, 2009, 03:44:30 PM
Well, considering the tapes I had problems with would get fucked up in multiple players, and that other tapes would play just fine in the same cassette players, I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you. 
Title: Re: Kindles = Hitler
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on December 11, 2009, 03:45:01 PM
WAX CYLINDERS OR GTFO!   :argh!:

DAMN KIDS, WITH YOUR NEWFANGLED 8 TRACKS, LISTENING TO THE ROCK AND THE ROLL!
Title: Re: Kindles = Hitler
Post by: Triple Zero on December 11, 2009, 04:02:41 PM
Quote from: BAI on December 11, 2009, 01:28:58 PM
QuoteSD memory cards. They survive a fire and you can drive a truck over them.

000, trip man, Ive never before ever, said STFU! to your good self, but, dude.

you want to see me kill an SD card? Like, kill so its mother would not recognize it? Honest.

How would this work? I can see driving a truck over one, as they are well flat and would probly take it.

okay okay okay, they are not 100% indestructible, but nothing is to the determined BAI :-)

they are just way more resilient than CDs, Vinyl record or videocassettes, is what I meant.

Quote from: LMNO on December 11, 2009, 01:29:13 PMI like records because of the surface noise.

It gives off a fake sense of nostalgia, and I'm not afraid to admit that.

Sounds like a perfectly good reason to me!

Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on December 11, 2009, 01:53:12 PMIt's mp3's that bug me.  I don't fancy myself an audiophile but damn they just sound lifeless compared to CD's and other older formats.  And I can tell instantly when they are playing MP3's on Sirius compared to a CD.  It has that swishy kinda sound.

I can tell a 128kbps mp3 easily, it's indeed "swishy", I never tried comparing with 192kbps, but I think I could tell with some effort. Anything higher is nearly impossible to tell apart, unless the encoding somehow went wrong. It's still about 5x as small as lossless encoding, though.

Quote from: BAI on December 11, 2009, 02:07:02 PMmr 000 said that sd cards are practically unkillable.


I want to kill one,

CHALLENGE ON!  :mrgreen:

to make it fair 000

he can name the make and model of sd card that I will try and kill.

I will purchase this, and load it with a graphic, an mp3 and a vid that I shall try and murder.

And murder I shall (within reason I.E not crushing it longways or magnetoing it or shredding it).

Like reasonable shit like dousing it in petty and setting it alight and beating it and running it over and things :P it sounds like a challenge to me :P

000! Lay you shit down!

Hmmm, well I heard about running it over with a car.

When my house burned down, a 2GB SD card was in the camera of my flatmate, the entire room was burned to a blackened mass of crispy black flakes, the camera was not burnt (it was below some black stuff), but had waterdamage. The SD card was fine.

I think hitting it with a hammer might also break it, but I'm not sure, so you could try that as a final resort :)

I'm also not entirely sure whether the information on it is actually magnetic, but that would be easier to simply look up than try out :)

And the brand, well, SanDisk is the original manufacturer, but I think my flatmate's camera card was just a cheap thing.
Title: Re: Kindles = Hitler
Post by: Reginald Ret on December 11, 2009, 04:06:21 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on December 11, 2009, 03:44:30 PM
Well, considering the tapes I had problems with would get fucked up in multiple players, and that other tapes would play just fine in the same cassette players, I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you. 
I can't imagine a cassette design that would cause such problems.
The tape gets pulled out the cassette a little bit, comes into contact with the reader and then gets pulled back into the cassette through the turning wheel.
the only way it could get pulled out of this track would be because the tape got stuck on something. this can either be caused by the tape being sticky or the spokes or readerhead having a snag.
You fapped into your 'problem' tapes didn't you?

i remembered one other problem with cassettes: twisted tape, that caused some weird medleys.
Title: Re: Kindles = Hitler
Post by: Requia ☣ on December 11, 2009, 08:46:29 PM
I've heard 192 MP3 lose an entire note, so I wouldn't call it lossless, AAC or OGG (and probably WMA, though I've never worked with it) all sound fine though.

Flac is more for archiving and future proofing your collection, you can move from Flac to any other format just fine, lossy formats (even really good ones) sound atrocious if you convert between them.  Also good if you intend to do any remixing.


Quote from: Bai
FLAC is great! I just done my step daughter some unseemly lage bitrate video for some silly vampire proggy. worked out 2.8 dvds woth per 1 file. lol.

Wut?  That's not flac, my entire flac archive (a dozen CDs) would fit on one DVD.  It also has nothing to do with video.
Title: Re: Kindles = Hitler
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 12, 2009, 03:29:05 AM
Quote from: Regret on December 11, 2009, 04:06:21 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on December 11, 2009, 03:44:30 PM
Well, considering the tapes I had problems with would get fucked up in multiple players, and that other tapes would play just fine in the same cassette players, I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you.  
I can't imagine a cassette design that would cause such problems.
The tape gets pulled out the cassette a little bit, comes into contact with the reader and then gets pulled back into the cassette through the turning wheel.
the only way it could get pulled out of this track would be because the tape got stuck on something. this can either be caused by the tape being sticky or the spokes or readerhead having a snag.
You fapped into your 'problem' tapes didn't you?

i remembered one other problem with cassettes: twisted tape, that caused some weird medleys.

Uhhhhhhh

you're clearly not from the 80's, are you?

Old tapes often, from years of use and occasional mishap such as twisting, get kinks in them that make them prone to getting "eaten".

Then there's also stretching, bleeding and distortion.

Man, tapes sucked.

Title: Re: Kindles = Hitler
Post by: Cait M. R. on December 12, 2009, 05:01:53 AM
Tapes sucked unless you were a musician working with tape loops.
Title: Re: Kindles = Hitler
Post by: on December 12, 2009, 05:33:28 AM
Quote from: Triple Zero on December 11, 2009, 01:19:45 PM
Quote from: Z³ on December 11, 2009, 01:22:56 AMIts not a matter of CD's having bad quality. Its just that the difference between an analog recording and a digital one tends to be that digital recordings cut out all the sounds that we cant fucking hear anyway, and audiophiles will often argue that the quality of analog is better as a result, its not an argument I really care about.

it's also not true. try listening to an audiophile that actually knows their shit next time. it's true that there are some things records can do that CD's can't do, but it's nothing that would show up in any blind listener test a serious audiophile would do. Which is why they don't. Because, like food, the difference in listening pleasure of CD versus Vinyl is in the presentation. Unlike food, not many are willing to admit this.

I did say that's an argument I don't take too seriously. Its also one that's not true now, but probably was ten years ago or so. Most of that difference was in regards to shit that human beings cant hear, anyway.

Quote from: 000
No, your so called "advantages" to these old technologies are not the reason why you stick to them.
Actually, they are. There are other reasons too, such as cost (I can usually buy second hand shit dirt cheap), and nostalgia... but I consider them to be genuine advantages.

Quote from: 000
You are just lazy and reluctant to switch to new technology.
Did I indicate anywhere that I dont use newer technology? I do. I'm just not so quick to scrap the old shit, either.
Also, you called me lazy?!

Quote from: 000
So don't kid yourself and don't kid us. It's a perfectly good reason. Or at least, it's a lot better and more honest to everyone involved than all the dumb and uninformed excuses you are making.

In no place did I say that the old tech is objectively better, my argument is only that its not obsolete. It still works, and it even has perceived advantages from my point of view, I say that because I continue to use it (in addition to newer tech as well, I obviously own a computer, for example). Dumb and uninformed excuses? IF you don't want to use a VCR, that's fine, I I never insulted your intelligence for using newer technology... so DON'T insult mine for using the old.

Quote from: 000
QuoteMind you, I'm not even saying that CD's are bad, or DVD's, or anything else. I just dont feel that the old tech loses its value just because newer tech exists.

except that it does, on all fronts, except for the part where you don't want to figure out how to use the new tech.
Does something lose its value because there is something else that's more modern? Do I throw away all of my old appliances to get the newest models? My computer is a little old, perhaps the reason I don't have a newer model is because I am lazy and ill informed? By the logic you present, because I still read books, I'm an ill informed lazy ass who cant figure out to use a kindle. STFU.

Quote from: 000
QuoteAlso, I dont rebuy cd's , I stopped doing that crap years ago.

Well, duh, I ripped all my CDs to my computer and haven't opened a CD box since. If I lose, break or scratch a CD I will download it, which in that case is actually legal because I already paid the copyrights on it (as it doesn't matter where I get my backup copy from, just that I have the right to own one).
Yeah, the same thing goes for ROMS.

Quote from: 000
QuoteTypewriters: Its nice to have a writing machine that isn't plugged into the grid.

Stop making excuses, damnit. If you really wanted that, you'd use a fucking pencil. A typewriter is way too clunky to be of any use except nostalgic value.

Actually, I have a pencil, and paper... and I use them. I also have Crayons, Paints/Brushes, various Pens, and other assorted clunky outdated methods of writing/drawing shit. If I follow you correctly, because we have computers now, that makes me a fucking troglodyte.

As far as a typewriter goes, you're probably mostly right about this one. I like the feel of it, but its much less practical than a computer for the purposes of writing, although I find it immensely valuable for its lack of distraction. Sadly, I lost mine on my last move, but I used it frequently.

On the real, all of the advantages I've described are purely subjective, and the things that I continue to use are outdated I generally use because I still like them. Hence, they haven't lost any value, except in the literal monetary sense... they still function, they do what they were designed to do. The advantages I described are found, but in a few cases I think rather practical. I've lost more DVD's and CD's over the years to damage than I have VHS and LP's. Also, the newer forms of technology obviously have their advantages, I leave them unstated because I'm not making a case for them and dont need to, I'm not talking down to anybody because they like technology.

I do however take issue with it if you talk down to me.