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Doc's Thread

Started by LHX, February 16, 2007, 02:45:31 AM

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Doc Howl

Quote from: Cain on February 16, 2007, 02:54:02 PM
Quote from: Doc Howl on February 16, 2007, 02:52:40 PM
Quote from: Cain on February 16, 2007, 02:47:02 PM
QuoteNor am I impressed by people wasting hours or days fucking about with stupid shit and trying to tell us all that it is somehow "equally valid".  One guy acted astounded when I "dismissed" yin/yang as a valid theory.

I've already harangued people about their postmodernist inclinations on here, from time to time.  I don't mind people thinking about the ideas symbols can represent and if they have any utility or not, or taking apart systems to see if they have any value at all.  But postmodernism is unfortunately ingrained in much modern culture now, and it does tend to catch even the most intelligent people out.

This is why I have instructed Efrim and Pedro to kick me in the balls or at least cut off my liquor when I start talking like that.

Postmodernism is fucking stupid.  At least dadaism was funny.

If you haven't read How Mumbo Jumbo Conquered the World by Francis Wheen, you should.  You'd most certainly like it.

Thanks.  I'll hit Amazon tonight.
GET IT OFF ME!

LMNO

In defense of Taoism:

Rather than a way of explaining what the universe is, it seems to me that it makes only one claim about the external universe: that things tend towards balance.

From there, it makes observations, and suggestions on how a human should act in certain situations.

While you might disagree with the suggestions on how one should act, I'd hardly call that "bullshit".

Doc Howl

Quote from: LMNO on February 16, 2007, 02:57:16 PM
Quote from: Doc Howl on February 16, 2007, 02:43:14 PM
Quote from: LMNO on February 16, 2007, 02:33:38 PM
I can see you're pretty much a pragmatist, I got no problem with that.  I suppose the idea is that even if you can't see it, there may be things that might have a tangible effect on you, like gravity. I'm not talking about psychic phenomena, but I am talking about the Weird Shit that happens, and we're not sure what just happened, or why.

I can't see gravity.  I can observe it, though, and it works every single time.

Agreed.  The point is, what about the things you don't know about yet, and what effects might they be having on you?  That is to say, a person can't assume they know all the things that are happening around them, or what their effects might be,

That's okay, because you don't have to.  There is no benefit to knowing that a small rock between here and Mars is exerting a small gravitational effect on you.  There is also no benefit to knowing that a solar flare has raised the radiation you receive by a smidgen.

Quote from: LMNO on February 16, 2007, 02:33:38 PM

Agreed.  However, sometimes you need to point this out to people who have never been exposed to such thoughts.

Why?  They just look at you funny, and go back to chewing their cud.


Quote from: LMNO on February 16, 2007, 02:33:38 PM
I'm not sure I follow you.  I'd say that people weren't using their brains a long time before crowding was an issue.

When you put people in small, survival-oriented groups, they tend to think, because they have no choice.  Unless you deliberately short-circuit that (ie, Survivor), in which case they tend to act in bizarre ways that could be considered insane.

Quote from: LMNO on February 16, 2007, 02:33:38 PM
It depends on the setting, I suppose.  A "Valid Theory" of what?  A valid theory of how some people give meaning to their lives in the universe, and their place in it?  I'd say that if you wanted to look for personal meaning in this universe, you could do worse than Taoism.  You seem not to care about personal meaning, but rather practical "here and now" solutions; so, you're more interested in Newtonian Physics and Electromagnetism than Taoism.  I ain't got no beef with that.

One is a description of the way the universe works.  One is a brand of snake oil.  You decide.

Quote from: LMNO on February 16, 2007, 02:33:38 PMNow that's just mean spirited.

Not really.  Should a person not speak up when they see otherwise intelligent people wander off into navel-gazing?
GET IT OFF ME!

Doc Howl

Quote from: LMNO on February 16, 2007, 03:08:13 PM
In defense of Taoism:

Rather than a way of explaining what the universe is, it seems to me that it makes only one claim about the external universe: that things tend towards balance.

From there, it makes observations, and suggestions on how a human should act in certain situations.

While you might disagree with the suggestions on how one should act, I'd hardly call that "bullshit".

Taosim is the WORST of all religions, because it preaches that you should learn your place and stay in it.  It also preaches the "middle of the road" ideology of never trying to test the limits of anything.

It is a fine philosophy for sheep and cowards.  Bipeds need not apply.
GET IT OFF ME!

LMNO

OK then.  It looks as though we understand each other's concepts, even though we probably won't agree very often.

I'm cool with that if you are.

Doc Howl

Quote from: LMNO on February 16, 2007, 03:13:21 PM
OK then.  It looks as though we understand each other's concepts, even though we probably won't agree very often.

I'm cool with that if you are.

Sure.
GET IT OFF ME!

Cain

Didn't most of the early Taoists actually oppose the central government, however?

There was a definite revolutionary component in it, at least historically.  If you're talking about modern Taoism and wu-wei, however, then you have a point. Wu-wei is a bad piece of reasoning, very bad indeed.

LHX

Quote from: Doc Howl on February 16, 2007, 03:01:57 PM
Quote from: LHX on February 16, 2007, 02:51:20 PM
Quote from: Doc Howl on February 16, 2007, 02:43:14 PM
One guy acted astounded when I "dismissed" yin/yang as a valid theory.

When did discordians go from being open-minded to being mushy-headed?

Quote from: LHX on February 16, 2007, 03:40:04 AM

you are right from one angle tho

i cant hold something in my hand and say 'this is yin/yang'


i aint gonna hold fast to things i cant readily demonstrate

LAIL

astounded


doc is looking for drama where there is none

Actually, I was talking about your comment "damn yo!  you gonna call yin/yang bullshit too?"  Shortly before that post.

Please try to maintain some level of intellectual honesty.
lmfao

youre good


somebody been watching law and order
neat hell

Doc Howl

Quote from: Cain on February 16, 2007, 03:14:58 PM
Didn't most of the early Taoists actually oppose the central government, however?

There was a definite revolutionary component in it, at least historically.  If you're talking about modern Taoism and wu-wei, however, then you have a point. Wu-wei is a bad piece of reasoning, very bad indeed.

Well, you bring up the one saving grace of religion, which is the fact that no two people can agree on any ONE thing about it.  Ask a Taoist to explain his religion's enforced servility, and he'll say, "oh, that's the OTHER Taoism".  

Try that shit with one of these fucked up "neo-Pagans" sometime.  None of them can agree on ANYTHING, and they spend all their time trying to expose each other as being non-"real" pagans.  Presumably the last high-priest standing gets his pick of the gullible college chicks.
GET IT OFF ME!

Cain

Quote from: Doc Howl on February 16, 2007, 03:19:23 PM
Quote from: Cain on February 16, 2007, 03:14:58 PM
Didn't most of the early Taoists actually oppose the central government, however?

There was a definite revolutionary component in it, at least historically.  If you're talking about modern Taoism and wu-wei, however, then you have a point. Wu-wei is a bad piece of reasoning, very bad indeed.

Well, you bring up the one saving grace of religion, which is the fact that no two people can agree on any ONE thing about it.  Ask a Taoist to explain his religion's enforced servility, and he'll say, "oh, that's the OTHER Taoism". 

Try that shit with one of these fucked up "neo-Pagans" sometime.  None of them can agree on ANYTHING, and they spend all their time trying to expose each other as being non-"real" pagans.  Presumably the last high-priest standing gets his pick of the gullible college chicks.

We have.  When Roger gets in touch, ask him about the aborted failure of "MysticWicks".  9 months of our lives we will never get back there....

Doc Howl

Quote from: Cain on February 16, 2007, 03:23:36 PM
Quote from: Doc Howl on February 16, 2007, 03:19:23 PM
Quote from: Cain on February 16, 2007, 03:14:58 PM
Didn't most of the early Taoists actually oppose the central government, however?

There was a definite revolutionary component in it, at least historically.  If you're talking about modern Taoism and wu-wei, however, then you have a point. Wu-wei is a bad piece of reasoning, very bad indeed.

Well, you bring up the one saving grace of religion, which is the fact that no two people can agree on any ONE thing about it.  Ask a Taoist to explain his religion's enforced servility, and he'll say, "oh, that's the OTHER Taoism". 

Try that shit with one of these fucked up "neo-Pagans" sometime.  None of them can agree on ANYTHING, and they spend all their time trying to expose each other as being non-"real" pagans.  Presumably the last high-priest standing gets his pick of the gullible college chicks.

We have.  When Roger gets in touch, ask him about the aborted failure of "MysticWicks".  9 months of our lives we will never get back there....

Did you at least get lots of laughs in?  I can't see Roger taking that sort of shit seriously.

Fuck, we couldn't even get him to take combat seriously.  Fucker was always giggling about something.  Of course, that was a long time ago.  I understand he's grown grim in his old age.  Well, I'll fix that.
GET IT OFF ME!

Cain

Oh, to the end we did.  Enough trolling material to last for years, over there.  We also found out that Discordians are not very liked by Pagans, which is kinda amusing, in a sad way.

Doc Howl

Quote from: Cain on February 16, 2007, 03:29:33 PM
Oh, to the end we did.  Enough trolling material to last for years, over there.  We also found out that Discordians are not very liked by Pagans, which is kinda amusing, in a sad way.

That's not very surprising, when you think about it.  After all, Discordians are supposed to "think for yourself, schmuck", and paganism doesn't work when people start thinking for themselves and questioning their ridiculous bullshit.

Pagans are fit only for public ridicule, and not one of them will get my respect until they name me as their God.
GET IT OFF ME!

Cain

Quote from: Doc Howl on February 16, 2007, 03:32:05 PM
Quote from: Cain on February 16, 2007, 03:29:33 PM
Oh, to the end we did.  Enough trolling material to last for years, over there.  We also found out that Discordians are not very liked by Pagans, which is kinda amusing, in a sad way.

That's not very surprising, when you think about it.  After all, Discordians are supposed to "think for yourself, schmuck", and paganism doesn't work when people start thinking for themselves and questioning their ridiculous bullshit.

Pagans are fit only for public ridicule, and not one of them will get my respect until they name me as their God.

Yeah, we came to a similar conclusion.  Also that, being social outcasts themselves, they needed someone else to shit on constantly, besides Christians.

It was funny, because we were actually making some progress with a few of them and having a few laughs too.  Nothing is as funny as a pagan who asslicks Bush, so we had months of fun in the politics area.  But some admins hated us, slammed us the first chance they got, and it all went downhill from there.

Doc Howl

Quote from: Cain on February 16, 2007, 03:36:02 PM
Quote from: Doc Howl on February 16, 2007, 03:32:05 PM
Quote from: Cain on February 16, 2007, 03:29:33 PM
Oh, to the end we did.  Enough trolling material to last for years, over there.  We also found out that Discordians are not very liked by Pagans, which is kinda amusing, in a sad way.

That's not very surprising, when you think about it.  After all, Discordians are supposed to "think for yourself, schmuck", and paganism doesn't work when people start thinking for themselves and questioning their ridiculous bullshit.

Pagans are fit only for public ridicule, and not one of them will get my respect until they name me as their God.

Yeah, we came to a similar conclusion.  Also that, being social outcasts themselves, they needed someone else to shit on constantly, besides Christians.

It was funny, because we were actually making some progress with a few of them and having a few laughs too.  Nothing is as funny as a pagan who asslicks Bush, so we had months of fun in the politics area.  But some admins hated us, slammed us the first chance they got, and it all went downhill from there.

Pagans for Bush?  :lol:
GET IT OFF ME!