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Pros and Cons of Optimism/Pessimism...

Started by maphdet, March 13, 2011, 02:32:10 AM

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Triple Zero

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 13, 2011, 04:16:56 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on March 13, 2011, 04:16:17 PM
I'd like to hear about pros of pessimism, though.

Rarely disappointed.

That almost sounds like something a pessimist could look forward to ...

No but seriously, "lack of disappointment" doesn't sound particularly pessimistic to me. Yes I understand that from a realistic outside perspective, the pessimist is less often disappointed, but I really doubt a pessimist would even notice.

I think it's a trick question.

In my personal experience optimism makes me feel better. Actually that's just it, I'm only optimistic about very personal things and my personal life. Like, when I say "things have the tendency to turn out allright", I mean about me, about obstacles on my own path. Wouldn't say it about anything else. I find that the optimistic view in fact makes me more likely to undertake action ("assuming things will turn out allright, what needs to happen right now?") than the pessimistic "it'll never work". On the other hand, when I look at the outside world, humanity in general, and/or groups larger than 5 people, pessimism is the safest bet and optimism will nearly always fail you.

But then, depending on your preference, you can frame both optimism and pessimism differently:

       action        inaction       
     
optimism :        "assuming things will turn out allright,     
     what needs to happen right now?"   
    "things will turn out allright,     
     all by themselves"     
     
pessimism :        "they'll never get it right. if you want     
     something done right,     
     better do it yourself."   
    "It'll never work."   
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e-prime disclaimer: let it seem fairly unclear I understand the apparent subjectivity of the above statements. maybe.

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Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

If you use only one perception filter, optimism and pessimism both have major flaws. However, in problem solving, an optimist is at least likely to come up with 23 different things to try (maybe one of the will work), while a pessimist is more likely to sit on their hands (which almost never works). In survival situations, an optimist or pragmatist are probably more likely to survive...

I can't really think of a situation where a pessimist is likely to have the advantage.


- I don't see race. I just see cars going around in a circle.

"Back in my day, crazy meant something. Now everyone is crazy" - Charlie Manson

LMNO

Really?  How about when the pessimist will think of 23 reasons the fucking thing will go wrong, and then corrects for that?

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Ratatosk on March 14, 2011, 02:09:20 PM
If you use only one perception filter, optimism and pessimism both have major flaws. However, in problem solving, an optimist is at least likely to come up with 23 different things to try (maybe one of the will work), while a pessimist is more likely to sit on their hands (which almost never works). In survival situations, an optimist or pragmatist are probably more likely to survive...

I can't really think of a situation where a pessimist is likely to have the advantage.




Balls.  I see this shit every day in maintenance.  Everyone talks best case, and then buys their own hype.  I state what could very possibly go wrong, and when it does, every one blames me after the fact because THEIR stupid, rosy-eyed idea didn't fucking work.

I plan for the very worst case in all things, as much as I am able.  When shit breaks down, I'm ready for it, and when the starry-eyed ideas of the engineer & planner fail, I'm there to plod up and fix it right.

Optimists are a plague on mankind.

" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

Quote from: LMNO, PhD on March 14, 2011, 02:15:33 PM
Really?  How about when the pessimist will think of 23 reasons the fucking thing will go wrong, and then corrects for that?

Recently the brands want to build an iPad app that will integrate with the Point of Sale in the stores. The pessimist on the team basically said "no way in hell, its too dangerous." The optimist on the team said "Of course, we can do that because it supports the business." After the meeting the team got together and the paranoids and pragmatists came up with the best options to make it work securely. The pessimist just keeps rolling his eyes and saying its gonna screw us later.

In my experience, Paranoids and Realists, seems far more likely to see flaws and correct for them than pessimists. Though I could be wrong on the way I define pessimist.
- I don't see race. I just see cars going around in a circle.

"Back in my day, crazy meant something. Now everyone is crazy" - Charlie Manson

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Ratatosk on March 14, 2011, 02:21:34 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on March 14, 2011, 02:15:33 PM
Really?  How about when the pessimist will think of 23 reasons the fucking thing will go wrong, and then corrects for that?

Recently the brands want to build an iPad app that will integrate with the Point of Sale in the stores. The pessimist on the team basically said "no way in hell, its too dangerous." The optimist on the team said "Of course, we can do that because it supports the business." After the meeting the team got together and the paranoids and pragmatists came up with the best options to make it work securely. The pessimist just keeps rolling his eyes and saying its gonna screw us later.

In my experience, Paranoids and Realists, seems far more likely to see flaws and correct for them than pessimists. Though I could be wrong on the way I define pessimist.

You are confusing "pessimist" with "defeatist".  See Trip's post at the top of the page.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

P3nT4gR4m

Optimism and pessimism are both half-arsed, they're as bad as each other and both are fucking retarded. An optimist has a tendency to dive into things thinking it'll all work out fine cos god's on his side or some dumb shit. Pessimists, on the other hand, come up with a million and one worst case scenarios which tend to stack up until there's no point doing anything but whining. Best to take both views into consideration - what's the worst that can happen, what's the best that can happen? That way you're approaching any situation with both fucking eyes open, you're able to seize opportunities and sidestep any pitfalls along the way.

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walking the fine line line between genius and batshit fucking crazy

"computation is a pattern in the spacetime arrangement of particles, and it's not the particles but the pattern that really matters! Matter doesn't matter." -- Max Tegmark

Faust

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 14, 2011, 02:19:47 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on March 14, 2011, 02:09:20 PM
If you use only one perception filter, optimism and pessimism both have major flaws. However, in problem solving, an optimist is at least likely to come up with 23 different things to try (maybe one of the will work), while a pessimist is more likely to sit on their hands (which almost never works). In survival situations, an optimist or pragmatist are probably more likely to survive...

I can't really think of a situation where a pessimist is likely to have the advantage.




Balls.  I see this shit every day in maintenance.  Everyone talks best case, and then buys their own hype.  I state what could very possibly go wrong, and when it does, every one blames me after the fact because THEIR stupid, rosy-eyed idea didn't fucking work.

I plan for the very worst case in all things, as much as I am able.  When shit breaks down, I'm ready for it, and when the starry-eyed ideas of the engineer & planner fail, I'm there to plod up and fix it right.

Optimists are a plague on mankind.


That's proper engineering, You don't know your control limits until you test them. The first thing any proper engineer does when confronted with a new system is how to break it.
Sleepless nights at the chateau

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Faust on March 14, 2011, 05:45:24 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 14, 2011, 02:19:47 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on March 14, 2011, 02:09:20 PM
If you use only one perception filter, optimism and pessimism both have major flaws. However, in problem solving, an optimist is at least likely to come up with 23 different things to try (maybe one of the will work), while a pessimist is more likely to sit on their hands (which almost never works). In survival situations, an optimist or pragmatist are probably more likely to survive...

I can't really think of a situation where a pessimist is likely to have the advantage.




Balls.  I see this shit every day in maintenance.  Everyone talks best case, and then buys their own hype.  I state what could very possibly go wrong, and when it does, every one blames me after the fact because THEIR stupid, rosy-eyed idea didn't fucking work.

I plan for the very worst case in all things, as much as I am able.  When shit breaks down, I'm ready for it, and when the starry-eyed ideas of the engineer & planner fail, I'm there to plod up and fix it right.

Optimists are a plague on mankind.


That's proper engineering, You don't know your control limits until you test them. The first thing any proper engineer does when confronted with a new system is how to break it.


Which is now taught about as much as proper journalism.   :lulz:
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

LMNO


Faust

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 14, 2011, 05:47:08 PM
Quote from: Faust on March 14, 2011, 05:45:24 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 14, 2011, 02:19:47 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on March 14, 2011, 02:09:20 PM
If you use only one perception filter, optimism and pessimism both have major flaws. However, in problem solving, an optimist is at least likely to come up with 23 different things to try (maybe one of the will work), while a pessimist is more likely to sit on their hands (which almost never works). In survival situations, an optimist or pragmatist are probably more likely to survive...

I can't really think of a situation where a pessimist is likely to have the advantage.




Balls.  I see this shit every day in maintenance.  Everyone talks best case, and then buys their own hype.  I state what could very possibly go wrong, and when it does, every one blames me after the fact because THEIR stupid, rosy-eyed idea didn't fucking work.

I plan for the very worst case in all things, as much as I am able.  When shit breaks down, I'm ready for it, and when the starry-eyed ideas of the engineer & planner fail, I'm there to plod up and fix it right.

Optimists are a plague on mankind.


That's proper engineering, You don't know your control limits until you test them. The first thing any proper engineer does when confronted with a new system is how to break it.


Which is now taught about as much as proper journalism.   :lulz:
It's still taught, but the reckless ones get safely disposed into managerial jobs where the damage their mistakes make is minimized.
Sleepless nights at the chateau

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Faust on March 14, 2011, 05:57:24 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 14, 2011, 05:47:08 PM
Quote from: Faust on March 14, 2011, 05:45:24 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 14, 2011, 02:19:47 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on March 14, 2011, 02:09:20 PM
If you use only one perception filter, optimism and pessimism both have major flaws. However, in problem solving, an optimist is at least likely to come up with 23 different things to try (maybe one of the will work), while a pessimist is more likely to sit on their hands (which almost never works). In survival situations, an optimist or pragmatist are probably more likely to survive...

I can't really think of a situation where a pessimist is likely to have the advantage.




Balls.  I see this shit every day in maintenance.  Everyone talks best case, and then buys their own hype.  I state what could very possibly go wrong, and when it does, every one blames me after the fact because THEIR stupid, rosy-eyed idea didn't fucking work.

I plan for the very worst case in all things, as much as I am able.  When shit breaks down, I'm ready for it, and when the starry-eyed ideas of the engineer & planner fail, I'm there to plod up and fix it right.

Optimists are a plague on mankind.


That's proper engineering, You don't know your control limits until you test them. The first thing any proper engineer does when confronted with a new system is how to break it.


Which is now taught about as much as proper journalism.   :lulz:
It's still taught, but the reckless ones get safely disposed into managerial jobs where the damage their mistakes make is minimized.

:lulz:

No.

:lulz:

They're all reckless, rigid-minded shitnozzles who think listening to a millwright's opinion demeans them.  At least the ones here.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Faust

I'm blessed in that I'm working in an innovation center and they consider us the ones who make the magic happen. If I ever go working in a corporation I expect to see what you are describing.
Sleepless nights at the chateau

Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

Quote from: Faust on March 14, 2011, 05:45:24 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 14, 2011, 02:19:47 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on March 14, 2011, 02:09:20 PM
If you use only one perception filter, optimism and pessimism both have major flaws. However, in problem solving, an optimist is at least likely to come up with 23 different things to try (maybe one of the will work), while a pessimist is more likely to sit on their hands (which almost never works). In survival situations, an optimist or pragmatist are probably more likely to survive...

I can't really think of a situation where a pessimist is likely to have the advantage.




Balls.  I see this shit every day in maintenance.  Everyone talks best case, and then buys their own hype.  I state what could very possibly go wrong, and when it does, every one blames me after the fact because THEIR stupid, rosy-eyed idea didn't fucking work.

I plan for the very worst case in all things, as much as I am able.  When shit breaks down, I'm ready for it, and when the starry-eyed ideas of the engineer & planner fail, I'm there to plod up and fix it right.

Optimists are a plague on mankind.


That's proper engineering, You don't know your control limits until you test them. The first thing any proper engineer does when confronted with a new system is how to break it.


Agreed. That's what I do everyday, though I tend to see it as paranoid pragmatism/realism rather than pessimism.
- I don't see race. I just see cars going around in a circle.

"Back in my day, crazy meant something. Now everyone is crazy" - Charlie Manson

The Good Reverend Roger

" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.