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The Trans Discussion

Started by hooplala, June 03, 2015, 04:11:25 PM

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Ben Shapiro


hooplala

"Soon all of us will have special names" — Professor Brian O'Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." — Bob Dylan?

"Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)"
— Walt Whitman

Prelate Diogenes Shandor

Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on June 06, 2015, 07:32:42 AM
Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on June 06, 2015, 06:15:53 AM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on June 06, 2015, 05:25:46 AM
Functionally, the difference between "Let's separate gender from sex" and "Let's do away with gender altogether" is nothing.

Unless you also intend to do away with the attendant behaviors, in which case you don't have any people left because all gender roles have done is take the naturally-occurring behaviors of human beings and segregated them according to sex.

As it is, the attendant behaviors are clustered together in semi-rigid groups. I would break these groups up as well, so that people could mix and match. Basically aiming for a situation where genderqueer (or something closely resembling it) and society-at-large become largely indistinguishable from each other.

Functionally speaking, how is that different from disconnecting gender from sex?

Technically it's not, but there's still a distinction between it and what is otherwise being proposed.

Imagine there's a bad traffic accident in which the two vehicles belonging to the same household involved become twisted together so they are hard to seperate, and after they are disconnected one is still drivable and only cosmetically damaged (perhaps it's much larger or something, bear with me) but the other is totaled. The smart course of action would be for the drivable vehicle to be kept and the wrecked one to be scrapped for parts and materials, this is analogous to my proposal. A more silly thing to do would be for the family to hang on to both vehicles and keep the wrecked one on conderblocks on their front lawn, and an even sillier proposal would be to keep the wrecked vehicle and get rid of the one that still works; the second proposal and in extreme cases the third proposal are analogous to what all of you seem to be proposing. The wrecked car represents gender, the working car represents biological sex, and the scrapyard and used auto parts store represent miscellaneous personality traits.


Additionally, people who are transgender rather than either normal or genderqueer identifying as a non-standard category are basically trying to have their cake and eat it too. Operating within he genderbinary system but refusing to play by its rules (as opposed to cisgender who operate within the system and play by its rules or genderqueer not identifying as a man or a woman who are outside the system and therefore have no societal obligation to play by its rules)
Praise NHGH! For the tribulation of all sentient beings.


a plague on both your houses -Mercutio


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrTGgpWmdZQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVWd7nPjJH8


It is an unfortunate fact that every man who seeks to disseminate knowledge must contend not only against ignorance itself, but against false instruction as well. No sooner do we deem ourselves free from a particularly gross superstition, than we are confronted by some enemy to learning who would plunge us back into the darkness -H.P.Lovecraft


He who fights with monsters must take care lest he thereby become a monster -Nietzsche


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHhrZgojY1Q


You are a fluke of the universe, and whether you can hear it of not the universe is laughing behind your back -Deteriorata


Don't use the email address in my profile, I lost the password years ago

Demolition Squid

Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on July 11, 2015, 10:09:06 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on June 06, 2015, 07:32:42 AM
Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on June 06, 2015, 06:15:53 AM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on June 06, 2015, 05:25:46 AM
Functionally, the difference between "Let's separate gender from sex" and "Let's do away with gender altogether" is nothing.

Unless you also intend to do away with the attendant behaviors, in which case you don't have any people left because all gender roles have done is take the naturally-occurring behaviors of human beings and segregated them according to sex.

As it is, the attendant behaviors are clustered together in semi-rigid groups. I would break these groups up as well, so that people could mix and match. Basically aiming for a situation where genderqueer (or something closely resembling it) and society-at-large become largely indistinguishable from each other.

Functionally speaking, how is that different from disconnecting gender from sex?

Technically it's not, but there's still a distinction between it and what is otherwise being proposed.

Imagine there's a bad traffic accident in which the two vehicles belonging to the same household involved become twisted together so they are hard to seperate, and after they are disconnected one is still drivable and only cosmetically damaged (perhaps it's much larger or something, bear with me) but the other is totaled. The smart course of action would be for the drivable vehicle to be kept and the wrecked one to be scrapped for parts and materials, this is analogous to my proposal. A more silly thing to do would be for the family to hang on to both vehicles and keep the wrecked one on conderblocks on their front lawn, and an even sillier proposal would be to keep the wrecked vehicle and get rid of the one that still works; the second proposal and in extreme cases the third proposal are analogous to what all of you seem to be proposing. The wrecked car represents gender, the working car represents biological sex, and the scrapyard and used auto parts store represent miscellaneous personality traits.


Additionally, people who are transgender rather than either normal or genderqueer identifying as a non-standard category are basically trying to have their cake and eat it too. Operating within he genderbinary system but refusing to play by its rules (as opposed to cisgender who operate within the system and play by its rules or genderqueer not identifying as a man or a woman who are outside the system and therefore have no societal obligation to play by its rules)

I'm sure your metaphor felt like it made sense when you started typing it, but it just doesn't work on any level.

And that last paragraph just makes you sound like a total idiot.
Vast and Roaring Nipplebeast from the Dawn of Soho

Cain


Freeky

I still think he's being a total twunt about this.  The only thing I can interpret his last paragraph as is "I refuse to accept what they want because they weren't born that way and it makes me uncomfortable to look at people differently than how I automatically judge them.  So because I don't want to move outside my comfort zone and the world isn't perfect, fuck them."

hooplala

Quote from: Choppas an' Sluggas on July 12, 2015, 02:03:11 AM
I still think he's being a total twunt about this.  The only thing I can interpret his last paragraph as is "I refuse to accept what they want because they weren't born that way and it makes me uncomfortable to look at people differently than how I automatically judge them.  So because I don't want to move outside my comfort zone and the world isn't perfect, fuck them."

I thought his last paragraph was the only vaguely interesting thing he's ever written on this forum.
"Soon all of us will have special names" — Professor Brian O'Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." — Bob Dylan?

"Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)"
— Walt Whitman

Freeky

Quote from: Hoopla on July 12, 2015, 02:13:33 AM
Quote from: Choppas an' Sluggas on July 12, 2015, 02:03:11 AM
I still think he's being a total twunt about this.  The only thing I can interpret his last paragraph as is "I refuse to accept what they want because they weren't born that way and it makes me uncomfortable to look at people differently than how I automatically judge them.  So because I don't want to move outside my comfort zone and the world isn't perfect, fuck them."

I thought his last paragraph was the only vaguely interesting thing he's ever written on this forum.

It can still be interesting and repulsive in its undertones.

hooplala

Quote from: Choppas an' Sluggas on July 12, 2015, 02:15:26 AM
Quote from: Hoopla on July 12, 2015, 02:13:33 AM
Quote from: Choppas an' Sluggas on July 12, 2015, 02:03:11 AM
I still think he's being a total twunt about this.  The only thing I can interpret his last paragraph as is "I refuse to accept what they want because they weren't born that way and it makes me uncomfortable to look at people differently than how I automatically judge them.  So because I don't want to move outside my comfort zone and the world isn't perfect, fuck them."

I thought his last paragraph was the only vaguely interesting thing he's ever written on this forum.

It can still be interesting and repulsive in its undertones.

Absolutely.
"Soon all of us will have special names" — Professor Brian O'Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." — Bob Dylan?

"Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)"
— Walt Whitman