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Started by Doktor Howl, June 26, 2015, 08:28:56 AM

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minuspace

This is my second attempt at this thread, I can see a thought trying to form, and blame my lack of focus on sleep deprivation, anyways...

I was trying to figure how it makes economic sense to feed any "miserable" segment of the population a toxic ideology.  Then it dawned on me:  The system sold to empower individuals does so at the expense of alienation and conflict, which, through cognitive dissonance, is neglected in favor of reinforcing the misconception of having thereby obtained what one really wants (yay freedom!).  This difference yolks said population to a perpetual (re)production of surplus labour, where every attempt at self-determination is predetermined to reinforce the machinery of disenfranchisement, while avoiding detection as such.

This of course applies to the main PUA/MRA(?) movement, however may also extend to military recruitment tactics, etc, I think.  (over/out)

Doktor Howl

Quote from: LuciferX on June 30, 2015, 03:59:12 AM
.

This of course applies to the main PUA/MRA(?) movement, however may also extend to military recruitment tactics, etc, I think.  (over/out)

Were you ever in the military?  Because there is precisely jack and shit in common with PUA/MRA "recruitment" and military recruitment.
Molon Lube

minuspace

Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 30, 2015, 06:05:34 AM
Quote from: LuciferX on June 30, 2015, 03:59:12 AM
.

This of course applies to the main PUA/MRA(?) movement, however may also extend to military recruitment tactics, etc, I think.  (over/out)

Were you ever in the military?  Because there is precisely jack and shit in common with PUA/MRA "recruitment" and military recruitment.
The similarity I noticed was both sell techniques that purport to obtain the enabling conditions of freedom, a bait that is then switched for bondage.  The 'will to power' is the exploit used, and it works through misdirection.  Unless treating each other as territory to be conquered is really our thing, I'd say I have to agree with my original sentiment, yes, the similarity spans from intention, to method, and results.  Also, they are both generally evil, and I don't allow myself to say that often.  These are not cases in which exceptions prove the rule, not at all.

Regrettably, I also am connected, by only two uncomfortably close degrees, to the guy that started the whole PUA thing, the guy that com truse  played in magnolia.  Incidentally, did you know that Top Gun was the Navy's number 1 recruitment tool, ever?  Not even funny.

Cain

So both the military and PUA/MRA movement...use advertising?  Shocking.

minuspace

Indeed, and even more so that it continues to work, so, transparently.

trippinprincezz13

Quote from: LuciferX on June 30, 2015, 07:48:18 AM
Incidentally, did you know that Top Gun was the Navy's number 1 recruitment tool, ever?  Not even funny.

I thought that boy bands were their # 1 recruitment tool.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UAnq33zRq8


There's no sun shine coming through her ass, if you are sure of your penis.

Paranoia is a disease unto itself, and may I add, the person standing next to you, may not be who they appear to be, so take precaution.

If there is no order in your sexual life it may be difficult to stay with a whole skin.

Chelagoras The Boulder

Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on June 30, 2015, 02:06:41 AM
Quote from: Cain on June 30, 2015, 12:36:49 AM
It's really sad in a way too, because I could really see a valid space for an actual men's "rights" movement (I'd prefer to use the word "issues" than rights).  Things like challenging conceptions of masculinity and male gender roles, as well as policy issues like homelessness, mental illness, male rape, prison violence and parental issues could all be covered in a mature and sensible way...

But it's much easier to jerk off about the evil feminists and SJWs and bitches who wont fuck me even though I'm totally an alpha male, so I don't see this happening any time soon.

I agree, those are all very real and serious issues. The funny thing is that currently, most of the people I am aware of who address those social problems (like the staff at Outside In, Central City Concern, and similar agencies) identify as feminists, and that rolls into the dialogue about how the patriarchy oppresses men as well... a part of the conversation that often goes missing in the "MRA vs. Feminists" cage match.
Yea, i feel like this is an important piece of the puzzle, not because men's problems are necessarily any more or less important than womens' but because the next step towards this enlightened equal society we all seem to want so badly will necessarily require a high degree of empathy and mutual understanding and we'll never get there if both sides of the debate hide behind their "i'm not listen cuz FUCK YOU" shields.
"It isn't who you know, it's who you know, if you know what I mean.  And I think you do."

Doktor Howl

Quote from: LuciferX on June 30, 2015, 07:48:18 AM
.
The similarity I noticed was both sell techniques that purport to obtain the enabling conditions of freedom, a bait that is then switched for bondage. .

The military is nothing like that.  In fact, getting in can be a pain in the ass.

And it's a contract, like any other contract.  In most cases, it's a "will to go to university".

What, you think recruiters tell you it's all sunshine and gumdrops?
Molon Lube

minuspace


Goodie-goodie gumdrops, no.  Although they did offer me some boba tea.

And it is the contract that worries me, because the commitment only dances around the notion of informed consent. I'd argue the stipulation of a choice being made is null if a decision was intentionally misinformed and misdirected, which it is. Second, I'd argue  the validity of that contract on the ground that given the privilege afforded elsewhere, it's also not even really a choice if joining is the only way to get an education.  I think coercion is a more appropriate designation than contract, and that pisses me off.

[don't want to derail thread]

Doktor Howl

Quote from: LuciferX on July 01, 2015, 12:18:15 AM
And it is the contract that worries me, because the commitment only dances around the notion of informed consent.

Where do you get that idea?
Molon Lube

minuspace

Quote from: Doktor Howl on July 01, 2015, 01:20:49 AM
Quote from: LuciferX on July 01, 2015, 12:18:15 AM
And it is the contract that worries me, because the commitment only dances around the notion of informed consent.

Where do you get that idea?

The potential loss is difficult to grasp for most males aged 18-28, I think, from personal experience.  I don't consider myself entirely unreasonable and yet still was susceptible to suggestion.

If I may allow mself to imagine what it feels like, I'd think the 'draft' at first was breezy, like the invitation of an open door, slowly turning into a massive undertow.

This kind of training may be good but the end result is something of a complex beast.  The only way I know to kill it is not to serve it.

I have a feeling you may have a better grasp on the subject, so I wouldn't be opposed to conversation, it's your thread?

Doktor Howl

Quote from: LuciferX on July 01, 2015, 05:50:04 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on July 01, 2015, 01:20:49 AM
Quote from: LuciferX on July 01, 2015, 12:18:15 AM
And it is the contract that worries me, because the commitment only dances around the notion of informed consent.

Where do you get that idea?

The potential loss is difficult to grasp for most males aged 18-28, I think, from personal experience.  I don't consider myself entirely unreasonable and yet still was susceptible to suggestion.

If I may allow mself to imagine what it feels like, I'd think the 'draft' at first was breezy, like the invitation of an open door, slowly turning into a massive undertow.

This kind of training may be good but the end result is something of a complex beast.  The only way I know to kill it is not to serve it.

I have a feeling you may have a better grasp on the subject, so I wouldn't be opposed to conversation, it's your thread?

Well, we certainly can't allow people to make decisions before they're 70.
Molon Lube

minuspace

#27
Quote from: Doktor Howl on July 01, 2015, 06:24:25 AM
Quote from: LuciferX on July 01, 2015, 05:50:04 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on July 01, 2015, 01:20:49 AM
Quote from: LuciferX on July 01, 2015, 12:18:15 AM
And it is the contract that worries me, because the commitment only dances around the notion of informed consent.

Where do you get that idea?

The potential loss is difficult to grasp for most males aged 18-28, I think, from personal experience.  I don't consider myself entirely unreasonable and yet still was susceptible to suggestion.

If I may allow mself to imagine what it feels like, I'd think the 'draft' at first was breezy, like the invitation of an open door, slowly turning into a massive undertow.

This kind of training may be good but the end result is something of a complex beast.  The only way I know to kill it is not to serve it.

I have a feeling you may have a better grasp on the subject, so I wouldn't be opposed to conversation, it's your thread?

Well, we certainly can't allow people to make decisions before they're 70.
Okay, what if we actually presented them with a choice, instead of pretending that war is the answer?

[I'm not saying the problem is easy]

Demolition Squid

The fuck does joining the army have to do with perpetuating war?
Vast and Roaring Nipplebeast from the Dawn of Soho

minuspace

Quote from: Demolition Squid on July 01, 2015, 08:12:32 AM
The fuck does joining the army have to do with perpetuating war?
Non Serviam