MAKE MONEY TELLING STUPID PEOPLE WHAT THEY WANT TO HEAR, SRSLY.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

In response to the topic of this thread, I am far more in favor of making money selling useless things to rich people. They don't need the money anyway, and I do. Making money by misleading the hopeful ignorant is more than a bit unpalatable to me. Making money from the genuinely stupid, even more so.

[Captain Utopia]

This.  Monkeys are the new sheep.

[Doktor Howl]

In response to the topic of this thread, I am far more in favor of making money selling useless things to rich people. They don't need the money anyway, and I do. Making money by misleading the hopeful ignorant is more than a bit unpalatable to me. Making money from the genuinely stupid, even more so.

If you DON'T take it, they'll just pay their taxes and the money will be spent on the CIA.

Doktor Howl:  Making moral conundrums so you don't have to.

[Captain Utopia]

If I pay money to see a film, or to eat a meal, or drink a drink, then I'm not always being sold a lie.

Sure, the film may try to blair witch me into thinking it's based upon a true story, or the meal may be loaded with salt and market itself on having fewer calories, and the drink may associate itself with wit and charm rather than projectile vomit in a nightclub stall.  But those rotten apples say nothing about the orchard - there are brands within each of those industries which are upfront about what they are selling, and plenty more which lie between those points on the spectrum.  The experienced consumer can usually discern between the choices on offer.

However, there is nothing about the psychic industry which isn't based upon knowingly perpetuating lies which lower the average intelligence of our species.

[East Coast Hustle]

I can't speak for anyone else in the industry, but the single biggest reason I work as a chef is because I truly enjoy cooking good food (I'd pay to do it for myself at home if it wasn't my job) and, more importantly, I get off on seeing the look on someone's face not when they taste something they've never tasted before, but when they taste something they've had a hundred times before and realize that "holy shit, I never knew this could be THIS good!"

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

However, there is nothing about the psychic industry which isn't based upon knowingly perpetuating lies which lower the average intelligence of our species.

How exactly does "perpetuating lies" lower the average intelligence of our species?

And define "lie" first so we're on the same page.

[Captain Utopia]

Sorry FP but the very act of selling anything, involves lying through ones clenched weasel face.

I disagree - although it does seem a characteristic often found in the mass-market, I've come across plenty of smaller business selling goods or services at a fair price for quality, without the need for misrepresentation.

I'm stealing it to troll with

And define "lie" first so we're on the same page.

Well, I'll go with an example from "Red hot cold reading" (limited download availability ITT!), where the student scammer psychic is advised to cover up a wrong guess by blaming either "bad spiritual connections", or by declaring that the mark isn't trying hard enough.  So even if the average person is possibly smart enough to work out that they are being lied to, never fear, because much effort has been put into coaching the psychic into using their position of authority to make that person doubt themselves instead.

Nice.

However, there is nothing about the psychic industry which isn't based upon knowingly perpetuating lies which lower the average intelligence of our species.

How exactly does "perpetuating lies" lower the average intelligence of our species?

In the specific instance of the psychic industry, it is peddling fairy tales rather than education.  It is encouraging a belief in magical thinking, you know - the sort where everybody ends up believing that God/the universe/gaia/Simon Cowell favours them uniquely ahead of the rest of the pack.  The easy-fix mentality which kept Billy Mays bathed in cocaine and hookers, $19.95* sized chunks at a time.

You can call it a placebo, which helps and comforts desperate people in times of need, I call it a poison.

[Rococo Modem Basilisk]

In response to the topic of this thread, I am far more in favor of making money selling useless things to rich people. They don't need the money anyway, and I do. Making money by misleading the hopeful ignorant is more than a bit unpalatable to me. Making money from the genuinely stupid, even more so.

What about people who are both rich AND stupid?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

So. to recap:

anyone who works in the entertainment sector*, is making money from "stupid people" by "misleading the hopeful ignorant" ? also, I guess this apply to people who work in the service sector (stop making money from stupid fat people), the bar industry (stop making money from stupid drunks), the car industry (stop making money from stupid people who need new yearly cars) and, well.

Shit. anything where someone parts with their moneys.

No, it's the part about "telling stupid people what they want to hear". Entertainment is fine, and entertaining; like cars or alcohol it's a product people choose to buy, but making money by actually leading people on to believe that you are communicating with their dead relatives, foretelling their future, or arming them with information to fix a broken relationship is just plain shystering, and it's unethical IMO.

[Captain Utopia]

I think you are mistaking a book on Cold Reading, a known con technique, as used by carnies, deren brown and bill clinton, for Standard Issue This Is How You Be A Psychic stuff. Cold reading is cold reading. its a con. much in the same way that playing find the lady is not playing proper cards. you with me on this?

You're right - my hackles were raised by the cynical use of psychology in that book to ensure doubtful marks don't escape the hook - so it's a stretch to extend that to the rest of the industry.  In my defense, I didn't know that there was any other mindset in the industry.  But since ignorance is a poor defense, I'll shut up now!

[Doktor Howl]

No, it's the part about "telling stupid people what they want to hear".

Historically speaking, they'll kill you if you tell them anything else.

[Freeky]

So. to recap:

anyone who works in the entertainment sector*, is making money from "stupid people" by "misleading the hopeful ignorant" ? also, I guess this apply to people who work in the service sector (stop making money from stupid fat people), the bar industry (stop making money from stupid drunks), the car industry (stop making money from stupid people who need new yearly cars) and, well.

Shit. anything where someone parts with their moneys.

No, it's the part about "telling stupid people what they want to hear". Entertainment is fine, and entertaining; like cars or alcohol it's a product people choose to buy, but making money by actually leading people on to believe that you are communicating with their dead relatives, foretelling their future, or arming them with information to fix a broken relationship is just plain shystering, and it's unethical IMO.

Unfortunately Nigel, and this is strictly from my POV, if people want to throw money at me so I can give them a little peace of mind when I can't fend for myself and my child becuse I can't find a job, that is fine by me.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

but making money by actually leading people on to believe that you are communicating with their dead relatives, foretelling their future, or arming them with information to fix a broken relationship is just plain shystering, and it's unethical IMO.

Just reiterating the actual part I have a problem with.

Freeky, as a mom, I would lie, cheat steal, and sell my body if that's what it took to keep my kids fed and housed. But I'd do those things after other possibilities had been exhausted.

[Freeky]

That's what I meant by peace of mind, the bits you have a problem with. Except for giving them relationship advice.

Nobody wants to hire someone untrained and inexperienced here, and I don't know how to lie well enough for it to be believable, hirable, and I can still DO it.

[Doktor Howl]

People who go to "psychics" WANT to believe.  They aren't paying to know their future, etc, they're paying to be reassured that there is a higher power or guiding force in the universe.  Most importantly, they're paying to be told that the wreckage of their lives isn't their fault.

They are going to believe all these things anyway, there's no essential difference between getting paid for cold reading and getting paid for, say, being a pet psychologist. 

You can't con people that WANT to be conned, know what I mean?