TRANSMISSIONS FROM ARIZONA

[Payne]

Thank you, Jack of Turnips, for that. 

And as for you, Pope Lecherous -

Whether you like it or not, you are a tool of the military. You are a tool because you have forgotten that the person you shoot may just have more worth than that which your country tells you. You are a tool because you are content to value abstractions over humanity. You are a tool because even though you and me and everybody else realizes that what you fight for is a lie, you continue to without question.

Why?

Is it because you have a mortgage to pay? Or a family to raise? Or is it merely because you have forgotten how to Think for Yourself?

People serve for all sorts of reasons.  I thought I was defending the republic.

I got better, of course.

You mean you got over it. You get worse with every day that passes.

[Cain]

I'm considering serving in the Australian army because

1) its the one place my degree is useful without having to join a political party, most of whom I disagree with
2) its Australia.  Our national policy in times of war is to follow America and Britain, and liberate alcohol, then hide.  Plus Rudd will likely not agree with any invasions of places like Iran, Syria etc
3) I like to make things go booom!
4) The way things are going, in the short term, knowing how to use firearms and being familiar with the security services of the state will be useful, even if I serve the minimum
5) In the long term, having had a job with an empahsis on physical fitness, firearms training and first aid will come in useful when I'm picking through the blasted remains of civilization
6) Something
7) I havent really thought this through in any detail, but it is a distant possibility

[Pope Lecherous]

Whether you like it or not, you are a tool of the military.

I am a tool of the government.  I'm supposed to be the last tool they use, but oh well.  As far as being a tool of the military, the military is comprised of many people, each with their own agenda.  As a singular entity the military's only goal is to continue to exist, just like one of those memetic entity things you guys talk about.

You are a tool because you have forgotten that the person you shoot may just have more worth than that which your country tells you. You are a tool because you are content to value abstractions over humanity.

Yea you're right.  I value ABSTRACTIONS over humanity.  Like people who support capital punishment may value Justice or Revenge over the life (humanity) of a murderer or rapist.  The justice system isn't perfect and innocent people may be imprisoned for life or even executed.  Military intelligence is even more fallible, yet we make the best with what we got.  The majority of my targets with 100% certainty were the enemy and were guilty, as for the coordinates of targets on the ground that i may have passed to a pilot... well.  I hope that man with the radio with eyes on target who told me they were bad guys, isn't a sick man.  I protect assets that make America powerful, human and non-human.  That is what i do.

You are a tool because even though you and me and everybody else realizes that what you fight for is a lie, you continue to without question.

I addressed what i fight for in a previous post and i restated it just now... our strength.  If the government will use that strength i provide and secure and use it for unjust causes, take that up with the oligarch that YOU elected.  If you didnt elect him, oh well, that's democracy for you.

Is it because you have a mortgage to pay? Or a family to raise? Or is it merely because you have forgotten how to Think for Yourself?

No, No, and I'm not sure... what do your fellow board members think?

[The Littlest Ubermensch]

I addressed what i fight for in a previous post and i restated it just now... our strength.  If the government will use that strength i provide and secure and use it for unjust causes, take that up with the oligarch that YOU elected.  If you didnt elect him, oh well, that's democracy for you.

You're still the one who signed up for the job and keeps doing it.

[Pope Lecherous]

You're still the one who signed up for the job and keeps doing it.

If the government employs or mis-employs the military to secure power for itself or power for the country, than that is fine.  It is this power that maintains the American standard of living.  If you and i cannot see what is necessary, you have already entrusted your vote to the candidate you THINK will do the right thing.  Suppose GW is doing the right thing, to save America in the long run.  I DONT KNOW AND NEITHER DO YOU.  Often times these things are not written in the history books, even if he is hated and labeled by history as the ruiner of the American economy for many years,  only the players involved in this game will ever know the truth.  Reserve your judgement, because you are not involved in any of the decisions he has to make BASED ON INFORMATION YOU DO NOT KNOW.

Commitment and Honor.  2 more of my sillly abstractions.  If i knew what George knew and what he didnt know, then maybe i could tell him what to do.  Until then, i will do my job like i am supposed to.  Like you do yours, where ever you work, for whoever you work for... and whoever he works for... and whoever he works for.  Maybe he intends to use your labor and get rich and destroy America!

George has the gun.  The man you elected will give him permission to pull the trigger or not.  Whisper in this man's ear and tell him no, you want peace.  Whisper in his ear and tell him you are scared, they must die cuz they are gonna kill us.  I am the gun.  The man you are whispering to isnt listening to you.  Deal with it.  But i wont take away America's weapon.

[Requia ☣]

Okay, really, why the hell are you here?  I mean, forgetting for the moment that you willingly gave up your freedoms to serve a group a people who destroy lives for a moment, are you really so goddamned fucked in the head that you're willing to default to the wisdom of a politician?  Or that the American standard of living (which is dropping drastically BTW) is the most important thing for the military to be securing?  I mean, I thought my parents were fucked up as far as cabbages go, but it scares the ever loving piss out of me to think that there might be more people like you out there, let alone that they're allowed to have guns.

[Pope Lecherous]

are you really so goddamned fucked in the head that you're willing to default to the wisdom of a politician?  is [American power] the most important thing for the military to be securing? 

List some other good reasons America should have a military, and i just might agree with you!  This whole system is based on the premise that we elect someone who has our best interests at heart and will do what it takes to preserve our liberties.  We should vote for people in accordance with that belief.  If we can't, then apparently, we need to re-examine the way our government works and the way we govern ourselves.  If i had it my way a clan of Discordians would run the whole show.  I really don't know which system is the best.

I mean, forgetting for the moment that you willingly gave up your freedoms to serve a group...
...Or that the American standard of living (which is dropping drastically BTW)

If my quality of life and freedoms are of so little value, why is it hard to believe that i would give them up, if not to at least maintain what i have OR (more optimistically) so my successors will have a better life and enjoy more freedoms?

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Thank you, Jack of Turnips, for that. 

And as for you, Pope Lecherous -

Whether you like it or not, you are a tool of the military. You are a tool because you have forgotten that the person you shoot may just have more worth than that which your country tells you. You are a tool because you are content to value abstractions over humanity. You are a tool because even though you and me and everybody else realizes that what you fight for is a lie, you continue to without question.

Why?

Is it because you have a mortgage to pay? Or a family to raise? Or is it merely because you have forgotten how to Think for Yourself?

People serve for all sorts of reasons.  I thought I was defending the republic.

I got better, of course.

You mean you got over it. You get worse with every day that passes.

You are simply jealous.

Why, there are entire societies that worship me as a figure of serenity and calm.

TGRR,
So close to the Buddha, he does my taxes.

PS:  Plus, you're jealous that I'm alive and you aren't.

[The Littlest Ubermensch]

If the government employs or mis-employs the military to secure power for itself or power for the country, than that is fine.  It is this power that maintains the American standard of living.  If you and i cannot see what is necessary, you have already entrusted your vote to the candidate you THINK will do the right thing.  Suppose GW is doing the right thing, to save America in the long run.  I DONT KNOW AND NEITHER DO YOU.  Often times these things are not written in the history books, even if he is hated and labeled by history as the ruiner of the American economy for many years,  only the players involved in this game will ever know the truth.  Reserve your judgement, because you are not involved in any of the decisions he has to make BASED ON INFORMATION YOU DO NOT KNOW.

Commitment and Honor.  2 more of my sillly abstractions.  If i knew what George knew and what he didnt know, then maybe i could tell him what to do.  Until then, i will do my job like i am supposed to.  Like you do yours, where ever you work, for whoever you work for... and whoever he works for... and whoever he works for.  Maybe he intends to use your labor and get rich and destroy America!

George has the gun.  The man you elected will give him permission to pull the trigger or not.  Whisper in this man's ear and tell him no, you want peace.  Whisper in his ear and tell him you are scared, they must die cuz they are gonna kill us.  I am the gun.  The man you are whispering to isnt listening to you.  Deal with it.  But i wont take away America's weapon.

1. Your job is murder. "Doing your job like you're supposed to" involves very intentionally ending the lives of other people, or trying to get other people to kill for you. I have difficulty believing you honestly are willing to be uncertain about how necessary the killing is. I guess I'm just an idealist like that.

2. So at what point do you take responsibility for your actions and try to minimize your role as a tool of people who are probably not doing the right thing? I'm nobody to judge. I'm as complicit as anybody else (as you pointed out), but don't act like you're not because you've decided to be a gun instead of a human.

3. Fuck commitment, and fuck your idea of "honor". Using your god damn brain strikes me as a better idea.

4.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

List some other good reasons America should have a military, and i just might agree with you! 

Easy.

To protect the republic against outside threats.

That hasn't been done since 1945.

Everything it has done since (and most of what it did before) WWII has been nothing more than providing muscle to corporations that get upset when their cheap foreign labor gets uppity.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

But i wont take away America's weapon.

Let's put that through the bullshit filter, shall we?

But i wont take away a retarded child's revolver.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Commitment and Honor.  2 more of my sillly abstractions.  If i knew what George knew and what he didnt know, then maybe i could tell him what to do.  Until then, i will do my job like i am supposed to.  Like you do yours, where ever you work, for whoever you work for... and whoever he works for... and whoever he works for.  Maybe he intends to use your labor and get rich and destroy America!

Serving an evil man is not an honorable act.

[Pope Lecherous]

1. Your job is murder. "Doing your job like you're supposed to" involves very intentionally ending the lives of other people, or trying to get other people to kill for you.

Just like the executioner, i got the thumbs up from the Authority.  The Authority is the voice for the majority of America.  If he isn't that's just a problem WE ALL HAVE TO SORT OUT.  A problem in who we elected or how we should govern ourselves.

I have difficulty believing you honestly are willing to be uncertain about how necessary the killing is. I guess I'm just an idealist like that.

This is phrased kind of awkwardly.  Do you mean that:  you can't believe uncertainty does not come into my mind when I send missiles or bombs to intercept the enemy?

So at what point do you take responsibility for your actions and try to minimize your role as a tool of people who are probably not doing the right thing?

I never try to minimize my role.  My job provides the MOST certainty one can have that when I am engaging an enemy, he is an enemy.  I am lucky to be able to perform my job and have that peace of mind. 

but don't act like you're not because you've decided to be a gun instead of a human.

I took on a different responsibility and so i have different world and thus, issues to worry about.  I'm not necessarily worried about the same things you are.

Fuck commitment, and fuck your idea of "honor". Using your god damn brain strikes me as a better idea.

If we knew each other personally i think you would highly value my take on commitment and honor.

[Pope Lecherous]

Serving an evil man is not an honorable act.

I agree with that.  Do you think GW is evil? If so, "why" is a topic for a different thread maybe.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Just like the executioner, i got the thumbs up from the Authority. 

So did Adolf Eichmann.

If we knew each other personally i think you would highly value my take on commitment and honor.

I doubt it.  You're still a tool.  I was too, once.