Persistence VS Hope

[LMNO]

I have had many nasty run-ins with hope, and I try to banish it from my vocabulary in terms of applying it to my own life. To me, "hope" means the same as "probably not". Do I hope something will happen, or am I motivated to work toward it? Do I hope to get my PhD at OHSU, or am I planning to get my PhD at OHSU?

To me, hope feels disempowering. It feels like abdicating responsibility and surrendering to outside forces.

I like that.


I try to use it as "it would be nice if this happened, but have a backup plan if it doesn't."

[Dildo Argentino]

But to me hope means desiring something to happen without doing anything to make it happen.

That might be the root of the misunderstanding here, because I think that's quite far from the concensus understanding of hope.

"Wishful thinking" is what I would say if I wanted to mean what you are describing.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Hope is wanting positive things, particularly those things not presently in your direct control.

As an emotion, it has nothing to do with being proactive or not.

[Dildo Argentino]

Hope is wanting positive things, particularly those things not presently in your direct control.

As an emotion, it has nothing to do with being proactive or not.

I think it is quite possible to hope for negative things, too... of course, negative things for someone else.

And yes, being proactive or otherwise just doesn't come into it.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I think it is quite possible to hope for negative things, too... of course, negative things for someone else.

In my world view, that is a positive thing.

[Dildo Argentino]

I think it is quite possible to hope for negative things, too... of course, negative things for someone else.

In my world view, that is a positive thing.

You don't say! 

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I think it is quite possible to hope for negative things, too... of course, negative things for someone else.

In my world view, that is a positive thing.

You don't say! 

I could deny it, but why?  I'm a hater.  I'm comfortable with that.  I view it as a virtue...I am like Jesus, only hateful and bitter.  The funny part is that I have very little to be bitter ABOUT, it's just the way I was made.

[Aucoq]

That might be the root of the misunderstanding here, because I think that's quite far from the concensus understanding of hope.

Indeed.  After all, I didn't define the word hope in my first post.  I had hoped you guys would just know what I meant.  But that wasn't the case.  So in my next post I defined what I meant by the word hope.  I no longer hoped you guys would know what I meant.  I knew defining the word would clear up any misunderstandings.   Can you imagine how much better this thread would've been if I had simply defined the word in the first place? 

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I think it is quite possible to hope for negative things, too... of course, negative things for someone else.

In my world view, that is a positive thing.

You don't say! 

I could deny it, but why?  I'm a hater.  I'm comfortable with that.  I view it as a virtue...I am like Jesus, only hateful and bitter.  The funny part is that I have very little to be bitter ABOUT, it's just the way I was made.

It actually makes perfect sense. You're hating for everyone. Ever wonder how some people can go through incredible adversity and come out of it with a smile on their face and love in their hearts? It's because Roger hates for them.

Roger hates for the whole world! He hates for you and me!

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

I think it is quite possible to hope for negative things, too... of course, negative things for someone else.

In my world view, that is a positive thing.

You don't say! 

I could deny it, but why?  I'm a hater.  I'm comfortable with that.  I view it as a virtue...I am like Jesus, only hateful and bitter.  The funny part is that I have very little to be bitter ABOUT, it's just the way I was made.

It actually makes perfect sense. You're hating for everyone. Ever wonder how some people can go through incredible adversity and come out of it with a smile on their face and love in their hearts? It's because Roger hates for them.

Roger hates for the whole world! He hates for you and me!

Kind of like Jesus died for your sins?
So if Christians are covered with whe blood of Jesus, what is the world covered with?

Something to ponder. 

[Aucoq]

Hope is wanting positive things, particularly those things not presently in your direct control.

That's what I love about hope.  How people see hope, and the very definition of the word itself, has changed so much throughout the ages and cultures that it could be defined many different ways and all the definitions would still be right.  Even if you look at a single time period and a single culture it's seen in completely different ways (this thread being an example).

I define hope as "wanting positive things without working for them, particularly those things not presently in your direct control." Or, like Holist pointed out, "wishful thinking."  (And I apologize for stealing the wording of your definition, Roger, but I think you worded it wonderfully.)

You say," No, no.  You're wrong.  Hope is wanting positive things, particularly those things not presently in your direct control.  It has nothing to do with action."

Someone else says," No, you're wrong.  Hope is having a goal in mind, a plan to reach said goal, and the belief that you can reach the goal."

And then someone else says," No, you're all wrong.  Hope just means to be confident that something good is going to happen in the future."

The truth is that we're all right.  Because no matter how certain we are in our definitions the truth is that the meaning of hope has a certain amount of subjectivity to it.  There's just enough wiggle room to draw your own conclusions.

But really none of that matters because all that matters is how Alty defines hope since the discussion is supposed to be about his OP.

With all that said, I still contend that hope is absolutely evil.  Want proof?  Alty wrote a fucking fantastic OP that brought up a really interesting point.  But we're completely ignoring that.  Instead we are discussing our meanings of a concept (a semi-subjective one at that) that doesn't have much of an effect on the idea behind the OP.  Why?  Because of holist hope.  Mother effing holist hope.  How is he that not evil?   

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I think it is quite possible to hope for negative things, too... of course, negative things for someone else.

In my world view, that is a positive thing.

You don't say! 

I could deny it, but why?  I'm a hater.  I'm comfortable with that.  I view it as a virtue...I am like Jesus, only hateful and bitter.  The funny part is that I have very little to be bitter ABOUT, it's just the way I was made.

It actually makes perfect sense. You're hating for everyone. Ever wonder how some people can go through incredible adversity and come out of it with a smile on their face and love in their hearts? It's because Roger hates for them.

Roger hates for the whole world! He hates for you and me!

Kind of like Jesus died for your sins?
So if Christians are covered with whe blood of Jesus, what is the world covered with?

Something to ponder. 

He hates the whole world, in his head
He hates the whole world, in his head
He hates the whole world, in his head
He hates the whole world in his head!

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Hope is wanting positive things, particularly those things not presently in your direct control.

That's what I love about hope.  How people see hope, and the very definition of the word itself, has changed so much throughout the ages and cultures that it could be defined many different ways and all the definitions would still be right.  Even if you look at a single time period and a single culture it's seen in completely different ways (this thread being an example).

I define hope as "wanting positive things without working for them, particularly those things not presently in your direct control." Or, like Holist pointed out, "wishful thinking."  (And I apologize for stealing the wording of your definition, Roger, but I think you worded it wonderfully.)

You say," No, no.  You're wrong.  Hope is wanting positive things, particularly those things not presently in your direct control.  It has nothing to do with action."

Someone else says," No, you're wrong.  Hope is having a goal in mind, a plan to reach said goal, and the belief that you can reach the goal."

And then someone else says," No, you're all wrong.  Hope just means to be confident that something good is going to happen in the future."

The truth is that we're all right.  Because no matter how certain we are in our definitions the truth is that the meaning of hope has a certain amount of subjectivity to it.  There's just enough wiggle room to draw your own conclusions.

But really none of that matters because all that matters is how Alty defines hope since the discussion is supposed to be about his OP.

With all that said, I still contend that hope is absolutely evil.  Want proof?  Alty wrote a fucking fantastic OP that brought up a really interesting point.  But we're completely ignoring that.  Instead we are discussing our meanings of a concept (a semi-subjective one at that) that doesn't have much of an effect on the idea behind the OP.  Why?  Because of holist hope.  Mother effing holist hope.  How is he that not evil?   

You make a really profound and poignant point, but I'm wondering if you've heard the Good News about Roger? He hates for you and me, so that we can have eternal less-hatefulness!

[Dildo Argentino]

Alty wrote a fucking fantastic OP that brought up a really interesting point.

Oh really? And what was it? I've read it the fifth time, and it still seems he was simply whinging. But perhaps I am missing something: could you reformulate the "really interesting point" of the OP, please?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Alty wrote a fucking fantastic OP that brought up a really interesting point.

Oh really? And what was it? I've read it the fifth time, and it still seems he was simply whinging. But perhaps I am missing something: could you reformulate the "really interesting point" of the OP, please?

Why are you such a jerk all the time?