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Lessons from Tragedies

Started by Cain, November 12, 2007, 05:11:44 AM

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Cain

"Even Patroclus died, a far, far better man than you.  And look, you see how handsome and powerful I am?  The son of a great man, the mother who gave me life a deathless goddess.  But even for me, I tell you, death and the strong force of fate are waiting."
- Achilles, The Iliad (Book 21, 119-20)

"I didn't make the world, your Majesty," he replied. "I only try to live in it."
- Sadi, King of the Murgos (David Eddings)

Vimes sat back. 'I've got no choice, have I?' he said. 'As my old sergeant used to say...you do the job that's in front of you.'

- Night Watch (Terry Pratchett)

As strange as some people seem to find it, the theatre has always been one of the true loves of my life.  There is a certain something about it, a feeling you can't get elsewhere.  A wooden stage becomes a battlefield, a court, a castle dungeon or a ship at sea, and a plot that can evoke a range of emotions from the audience.

It can also teach you lessons though, through those stories it portrays, and its those which I really want to talk about.  In particular tragedy, as the Greeks conceived of it.  The Greeks invented the theatre, as we understand it.  But more importantly, and something many otherwise smart people overlook, they also invented tragedy.  Not in the normal sense, tragic events had been noted down and performed before the Greeks, and probably will be until the end of time.

But it was a particular concept of tragedy, one which is often lacking from peoples understanding of the world.  It had a very particular meaning, you see.  A tragedy was a play with a sad outcome, this is true, but this outcome was more often than not the result of the capricious and unpredictable Greek Gods, who were forever meddling in the affairs of mortals.  The tragedy of the Trojan War was the death of many brave Achaean's and Trojans, because of the pride of Aphrodite, Athena and Hera.  The anger of Apollo indirectly leads to the death of Achilles, via the pride of Agamemnon.  Needless death and suffering is caused on a massive level because of the intrigues of the Immortals.

You see, this pattern does not work well in monotheistic societies.  More emphasis is placed on finding the 'cause' of God's displeasure, instead of accepting it as fact that the gods compete and fight among themselves.

Of course, nowadays, we no longer have gods interfering in the affairs of mortals.  My personal belief was they were never there in the first place, and the gods were representations of our own irrationality, our hidden psychoses and paranoia's played out onto the stage of the world.  In the past, we based them on our polytheistic tribal myths.  Nowadays, we lay blame at more temporal centres of power: the state, political parties, corporations, the stock market, super-wealthy individuals, the Church, the internet, popular culture.  We mistake the process for the cause – there isn't anything inherently wrong or evil about any of these (there also isn't anything inherently right or good about them, either).  They help frame and channel the hidden desires of their controllers onto the world.

Even so, they should not be underestimated.  That's a very fatal mistake.  They too have the power of life and death over you, to rewrite what people think they know, command legions of committed followers, tell people what is a sin or a virtue (especially if they're not a religious group).  That's why so many Greek heroes are tragic, because they try to defy the gods, they overstep the line that divides what a mortal may achieve and what an Immortal Olympian can do.  In defying something so powerful, so deeply rooted and so beyond rational comprehension, very real destruction is the outcome.  They fail and die because, as mortals or even semi-divine heroes, they are still not Gods.

Does this mean I am advocating not bringing the wrath of our modern day 'gods' down on your head?  That you should simply 'give up' in your personal struggles against the impersonal forces that conspire to bring you low in so many ways?

Of course not.  This is me, remember?

What am I doing is reminding you of the very real consequences of overstepping your ability to deal with your enemies.  If you defy the gods without having something of their power, you perish.  But perhaps you should reconsider aiming so high in your dealings and daily struggles?

Lets take a political example we are all too familiar with: the current US president.  He's not liked.  In fact, many people hate his guts, and these numbers are growing.  But how harmful have the vast majority of his critics been to him?  Not at all?  Ever so very slightly?  Somewhere between the two, I would wager.  Resources are being waged in an unwinnable battle, when all around you, the root conditions which manifest in such issues go unchecked.  To be sure, the occasional normal individual has managed to inflict a wound on him, with the blessing of another god.  But this is no different to when Diomedes had the blessing of Athena, and damaged Aphrodite and Ares.

For every Cheney there are 20,000 trailer park failures supporting them, if not more.  You probably know some in your daily lives.  Just like you and me, they are mortal, and bound by the same 'rules of play' we have to suffer.  And that makes them just as vulnerable.  If you don't like the mainstreaming of the music industry, for example, drum up advertising support for local bands, and buy their goods.  Don't bitch about 'the man' on your favourite Indie music forum.

And the thing is, if enough people deal with their struggles on this personal, achievable level, they actually do more to make their immediate surrounds better.  You can actually see and feel the benefits of your successful struggle.  Also, since power is based so much on consensus, you are helping to weaken the power base, the visible manifestation, of the thing you are fighting against.

So what can we learn from the Greek tragedies?  Perspective.

LMNO

QuoteYou see, this pattern does not work well in monotheistic societies.  More emphasis is placed on finding the 'cause' of God's displeasure, instead of accepting it as fact that the gods compete and fight among themselves.

Of course, nowadays, we no longer have gods interfering in the affairs of mortals.  My personal belief was they were never there in the first place, and the gods were representations of our own irrationality, our hidden psychoses and paranoia's played out onto the stage of the world.  In the past, we based them on our polytheistic tribal myths.  Nowadays, we lay blame at more temporal centres of power: the state, political parties, corporations, the stock market, super-wealthy individuals, the Church, the internet, popular culture.  We mistake the process for the cause – there isn't anything inherently wrong or evil about any of these (there also isn't anything inherently right or good about them, either).  They help frame and channel the hidden desires of their controllers onto the world.


There's something here that resonates.  Perhpas tangential, but still..

I can't put my finger on it, so I'm gonna babble a bit.


Polytheism - tragedy: monkey mind, human impulse.   Multiple causes of suffering, playing off each other. 

Monotheism - blame, vengance, overmind. Single source of suffering. 

Current society - replace YHVH with THE MAN.  Single source of suffering.


Better way of thinking about current society: The corporations as dieties, the Gvt as dieties,  all fighting against each other in their own petty squabbles that use people as chess pieces.





I dunno if this means anything.

Cramulus

Great one, Cain.

You're suggesting a sort of barstool for ambitions. When you say you shouldn't bitch about The Man (whom I conceptualize as a sort of spectral, looming platonic form) you suggest a more sane course of action. This goes in line with the local maxim that you can't break the Machine, but you can rearrange its component parts. At least, the ones near you.

I also like how you do not recommend a path of relative safety. You advocate large-scale challenge and change, but on a manageable, local level. This ties in with the Black Swan - that the wind of Big Changes comes on the wings of butterflies.

I think this perspective you speak of gives a higher degree of value to our Meme Bombs, which aim at subtle environmental changes, than to political protests ... which are, by comparison, like otiose fists shaken at disinterested Gods.


good rant

Cain

Thank you.  And LMNO, I think that actually underpins the entire argument.  There is a...monomania inherent in monotheistic thinking, I think.  Which all so often slides into fantasy and fanatical patterns of thought.  Its also way too simplistic, as it only allows for actors who are being allowed to act by the same supreme power.  Think of the problem of Evil, for example.  Plus, morality is tied up with the concept of that single all powerful God, which really screws shit up...

The Greek gods were not moral.  Not always, and not unless they wanted to be.  Hell, The Academy would be recognized as a more moral institution than the Greek gods were.  They were simply recognized as far more powerful beings.  One you could deal with, trick, bargain or hurt.  Apart from their power, they were just like you and me.

LMNO

Pratchett: "Gods don't need a reason."


Maybe we should start worshipping the Gods of Discworld.

B_M_W

Quote from: LMNO on November 12, 2007, 08:18:40 PM
Pratchett: "Gods don't need a reason."


Maybe we should start worshipping the Gods of Discworld.

Why not worship someone who is worth giving power to?
One by one, we break the sheep from their Iron Bar Prisons and expand their imaginations, make them think for themselves. In turn, they break more from their prisons. Eventually, critical mass is reached. Our key word: Resolve. Evangelize with compassion and determination. And realize that there will be few in the beginning. We are hand picking our successors. They are the future of Discordianism. Let us guide our future with intelligence.

     --Reverse Brainwashing: A Guide http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=9801.0


6.5 billion Buddhas walking around.

99.xxxxxxx% forgot they are Buddha.

LMNO

Yeah, but solipsism is so played out.

B_M_W

Quote from: LMNO on November 13, 2007, 01:53:18 PM
Yeah, but solipsism is so played out.

:roll:

I meant, who are the outcast gods of our time?
One by one, we break the sheep from their Iron Bar Prisons and expand their imaginations, make them think for themselves. In turn, they break more from their prisons. Eventually, critical mass is reached. Our key word: Resolve. Evangelize with compassion and determination. And realize that there will be few in the beginning. We are hand picking our successors. They are the future of Discordianism. Let us guide our future with intelligence.

     --Reverse Brainwashing: A Guide http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=9801.0


6.5 billion Buddhas walking around.

99.xxxxxxx% forgot they are Buddha.

LMNO

That was actually only half in jest.


Is there no God higher than ourselves?


Jesus said it, Siddartha said it, Heinlein said it...


Dysfunctional Cunt

Quote from: Buddhist_Monk_Wannabe on November 13, 2007, 03:33:20 PM
:roll:

I meant, who are the outcast gods of our time?

THAT is a thread all in it's own don't you think? 

It would depend on who you asked and what time of day or even what time zone you were in when you asked!

How old the person was....


Khara~
....will work this tangent elsewhere....


B_M_W

Quote from: LMNO on November 13, 2007, 03:46:41 PM
That was actually only half in jest.


Is there no God higher than ourselves?


Jesus said it, Siddartha said it, Heinlein said it...



I know, but we're talking VIRTUE ethics here. Its about emulation rather than worship.

Think about it. I'm gonna.
One by one, we break the sheep from their Iron Bar Prisons and expand their imaginations, make them think for themselves. In turn, they break more from their prisons. Eventually, critical mass is reached. Our key word: Resolve. Evangelize with compassion and determination. And realize that there will be few in the beginning. We are hand picking our successors. They are the future of Discordianism. Let us guide our future with intelligence.

     --Reverse Brainwashing: A Guide http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=9801.0


6.5 billion Buddhas walking around.

99.xxxxxxx% forgot they are Buddha.

Triple Zero

ok i just read this. good stuff! something to think about.

also, what Cram said.
Ex-Soviet Bloc Sexual Attack Swede of Tomorrow™
e-prime disclaimer: let it seem fairly unclear I understand the apparent subjectivity of the above statements. maybe.

INFORMATION SO POWERFUL, YOU ACTUALLY NEED LESS.