Redemption

[Ben Shapiro]

Unless there's some long con happening, however, isn't doing something positive for cynical reasons functionally no different than doing something positive for honest reasons?

Pretty much sums up my mentality whenever I do charity work whenever I decide to go out and do something. If anyone asks why I'm doing it I tell them Jesus Christ is in Heaven , and I'm here so deal with it. When Jesus comes back he can works twice as hard.

[Ben Shapiro]

To OP. If they commit the rest of their lives undoing what they did to help others sure. But if they're doing it because I can't get into heaven if I don't repent then they can go fuck themselves. If they've convinced  ME that they don't care about "Forgiveness", and still continue to do good even if the victims won't forgive them. Then yes they've redeemed themselves.

How would a rapist, or a murderer redeem themselves I don't know.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

How would a rapist, or a murderer redeem themselves I don't know.

I personally don't think they can.  If you take a human life, you can't give it back.  If you rape someone, you can't make it better.

[Salty]

Forgiveness and redemption are things I think about a lot. Partially because I was raised Christian, I am the bringer of RIGHTEOUS JUSTICE AND TRUTH often in my life, and because I have made some serious fuck ups/.

IMO, redemption belongs to the redeemed.

Which is to say, if you seek redemption, it is something that, if achieved, you hold onto only within yourself. Is that okay? Should redemption also belong to those who the redeeming? I guess, if they feel like it.

Here's the thing: You do something unforgivable, with me, I don't give a flying fuck. Good for you. You want to live your life in peace and harmony and share the love you have in your heart or what the fuck ever. Great. Just stay the fuck away from me.

If someone has fucked me over the trust is gone. If someone killed someone close to me there is no way on earth I would forgive them. I am way less forgiving for a host of lesser crimes. But let's say it was murder. Could that person find redemption? Sure. Deep in their heart they could admit that what they did was wrong, they could work their whole live toward making up for the terrible thing they did.

Cool. And what is that to me? Nothing. It not only does not cancel out what they did, it offends me to think that they think there's anything they could do to earn forgiveness. They wish to atone for their crimes with a life "making up for it"? That's the LEAST they should be doing. That's like a parent that actually takes care of their kid, they don't get a medal, it's what they're supposed to do in the first place.

And maybe they'll find some peace in their hearts, maybe because of me they'll never commit that deed ever again.

So? What in the hell does that have to do with me?

[Salty]

Someone may find redemption in the mores and rituals of society, but do they need it from the individuals they've fucked over along the way? If they do, and they're trying to get it from me, they're out of luck, I guess I'm trying to say. I dunno, I had this better thought out in my head the other day and got no sleep last night.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

How would a rapist, or a murderer redeem themselves I don't know.

I personally don't think they can.  If you take a human life, you can't give it back.  If you rape someone, you can't make it better.

I was conflating "redemption" with "expiation", there.

[P3nT4gR4m]

Question: Who is the judge? If it's society at large then the thing about hitler prolly holds true - some will forgive, some arseholes will probably condone the original bastardism. I'm thinking the only real redemption you can ever have is to forgive yourself. It's possible to change your moral code, your principles and integrity (I know because I've done this) but you can only ever judge yourself by your own standards. Maybe this is redemption. Maybe redemption in the eyes of society is a myth or a numbers game or some arbitrary legislative line in the sand.

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

The running theme is you have to do something to fix what you broke.

Death row is filled with remorseful child-rapists who killed their victims by tearing up their internal organs in their zeal. Forgiving George Wallace because he's sick and sowee is akin to racism and classim and is further enablement of white, rich men in suits doing whatever the hell they want to people because they can always hire a PR guy later and apologize.

Fuck that.

Get off your ass and go help all the people of Alabama you fucked over. I can show you some pictures of people still living in cardboard shacks around the formerly-all-black College that is now Bishop State, if you need a place to start.

Otherwise, GTFO. Damage is done, you racist fuck.

Was that necessary? Was that REALLY necessary?

I mean, I don't normally object to horrifically graphic verbal descriptions of inutterably terrible sexual violence to kids, because most of the time when people say shit like this there's an actual good reason to be dropping it into conversation. But you do this shit ALL THE TIME and it makes me wonder whether you ever stop to think, hey, do I really need to say something that grotesque to make my point in this case, or might I simply be dropping an incredibly ugly piece of mental imagery with a very high probability of triggering horrible memories in anyone who has ever been abused and simply disturbing the shit out of anyone who hasn't into an otherwise innocuous post where it isn't anticipated?

Basically, keep it up and I'm going to put you on ignore, simply because that's not actually a mental image I need laid on me out of the blue and it isn't by any means the first or second or even third or fourth time you've done it, or that anyone has said something about it.

Fucking hell.

Fucking hell, Navkat.

Do some fucking RESEARCH.

Prevalence of sexual assault, PTSD as a result of sexual assault, (not in all cases, but it happens) and pack the graphic shit in.

And apologise to Nigel.

FACT- the UN estimates ONE IN THREE women worldwide will be raped in their lifetimes. I think it's one in 5 in the US.

you say that shit, there's a ONE IN FIVE chance of causing serious emotional distress. I can count 5 rape survivors I know without thinking. A bit more thinking and I can count 8.

Think about that.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Yeah, so my thread got turned into shock porn.

Not sure, really, why I bother anymore.

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

Yeah, so my thread got turned into shock porn.

Not sure, really, why I bother anymore.

Bugs me when people say potentially trigger-y things. I get the urge to educate and yell at them.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I appreciate it, personally. So, thank you to both of you.

On the original subject, I was thinking that someone who has committed rape could redeem themselves by coming out publicly against raping people. It would be incredibly brave and incredibly dangerous, but that is a type of activist who could actually speak to the men who would commit rape, and educate them, and possibly make a change. I have never, ever seen an activist of that nature.

I'm writing an essay this weekend for  my psych class, about forgiveness and redemption, and how they figure into roles and attitude change, inspired by this thread.

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

I appreciate it, personally. So, thank you to both of you.

On the original subject, I was thinking that someone who has committed rape could redeem themselves by coming out publicly against raping people. It would be incredibly brave and incredibly dangerous, but that is a type of activist who could actually speak to the men who would commit rape, and educate them, and possibly make a change. I have never, ever seen an activist of that nature.

I'm writing an essay this weekend for  my psych class, about forgiveness and redemption, and how they figure into roles and attitude change, inspired by this thread.

I'd be inherently cynical about an activist of that nature, myself. I'm not sure if that's a negative or a positive. I'd be more suspicious of a repeat offender in such a case than someone who did it once.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I appreciate it, personally. So, thank you to both of you.

On the original subject, I was thinking that someone who has committed rape could redeem themselves by coming out publicly against raping people. It would be incredibly brave and incredibly dangerous, but that is a type of activist who could actually speak to the men who would commit rape, and educate them, and possibly make a change. I have never, ever seen an activist of that nature.

I'm writing an essay this weekend for  my psych class, about forgiveness and redemption, and how they figure into roles and attitude change, inspired by this thread.

I'd be inherently cynical about an activist of that nature, myself. I'm not sure if that's a negative or a positive. I'd be more suspicious of a repeat offender in such a case than someone who did it once.

Sure, I think that's natural. But since you wouldn't be his audience, that might not matter as much as whether the people he was trying to reach were convinced of his sincerity.

And, again, the reality is that actions affect attitudes; the old hack that if you tell a lie often enough you come to believe it is true.

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

I appreciate it, personally. So, thank you to both of you.

On the original subject, I was thinking that someone who has committed rape could redeem themselves by coming out publicly against raping people. It would be incredibly brave and incredibly dangerous, but that is a type of activist who could actually speak to the men who would commit rape, and educate them, and possibly make a change. I have never, ever seen an activist of that nature.

I'm writing an essay this weekend for  my psych class, about forgiveness and redemption, and how they figure into roles and attitude change, inspired by this thread.

I'd be inherently cynical about an activist of that nature, myself. I'm not sure if that's a negative or a positive. I'd be more suspicious of a repeat offender in such a case than someone who did it once.

Sure, I think that's natural. But since you wouldn't be his audience, that might not matter as much as whether the people he was trying to reach were convinced of his sincerity.

And, again, the reality is that actions affect attitudes; the old hack that if you tell a lie often enough you come to believe it is true.

That is the most important point..

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

I appreciate it, personally. So, thank you to both of you.

On the original subject, I was thinking that someone who has committed rape could redeem themselves by coming out publicly against raping people. It would be incredibly brave and incredibly dangerous, but that is a type of activist who could actually speak to the men who would commit rape, and educate them, and possibly make a change. I have never, ever seen an activist of that nature.

I'm writing an essay this weekend for  my psych class, about forgiveness and redemption, and how they figure into roles and attitude change, inspired by this thread.

I wonder why that is?

You always see people who did other kinds of crimes doing the talk circuit.