Potential last nail in Petroconomy's coffin

[Junkenstein]

Constant re-charge? I seem to recall something about an electric car that could charge while driving provided it was in a certain lane or somesuch.

[P3nT4gR4m]

Yeah, the designers are already talking about magnetic resonance induction charging tesla-fashion.

The tide thing still isn't going to work unless you can find some way of storing the power, given that peak and low output cycles are dictated by the moon, rather than usage patterns. So one day peak usage happens right on peak output and everyone gets a cup of coffee during the commercial break. Problem is the next day peak output is an hour late, the day after it's two hours.

Tidal generation is not on-demand. The grid is. I'm definitely leaning toward solar, right now. I was leaning toward solar even before they started making roads out of it. The rate of solar cell efficiency is accelerating like fuck meanwhile they're still trying to figure out what a tidal turbine is even going to look like.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Energy production - While I doubt anyone has any problems with Solar, the project seems to miss out on something else, mainly kinetic energy. (Very fuzzy) idea, but if you had a series of panels that shifted slightly as a vehicle moved over it, you may be able to capture and store the energy created from that tilt. I'm thinking something related to wave power/ sea snake ideas
http://defence.pk/threads/saltire-prize-medal-for-inventor-of-pelamis-wave-sea-snake.168701/
(Bad link but you can find more/better)
My thinking is with busy roads you've got a nearly constant flow of cars so if there was a way to store even a small amount of power per vehicle passing you could probably generate reasonable amounts.

Junkenstein, the kinetic energy harvest you're thinking of, something l ike this? http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2009/jun/15/sainsburys-kinetic-plates-speed-bumps

[Junkenstein]

Nice find! Glad to know it already exists. And yes, take that kind of concept and do it everywhere you can. Road surfaces would be great but even just car parks would be a decent step

[P3nT4gR4m]

The other thing that strikes me is that this doesn't just draw attention to futuristic smart-roads from the future, it also suggests that solar power is getting close to tipping point. It'll happen with graphene/nanotube collection if it hasn't already. I don't need the wifi connectivity or the fancy glass or the disco-lights. If I can cover my roof in just the sun cells I'm sorted. Fuck the rest of the world, they can go on killing the planet to their hearts content - I meet my maker with a clear conscience

[Junkenstein]

I was actually thinking about graphene in relation to this. If it's possible to get that stuff on a roll so you could just add a thin surface layer to existing roads/car parks/paths/etc pretty much on demand as required then you're talking future territory for sure. The cheaper, easier and quicker it is to re-surface places the faster this would catch on.

Of course, that's fairly reliant on some big advances with graphene in the mid future but it seems relatively realistic. I guess it just depends what the unit cost comes down to on an industrial scale.

I'm going to have to look a bit more into where the relative efficiencies lie at the moment. My gut is saying wave and wind for the best overall production options when scaled up correctly but that's mainly due to the consistency of the supply rather than best possible energy output. I have a horrible feeling that nothing is close to diesel however.

[P3nT4gR4m]

Found the test stats

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I think it's an awesome idea if it pans out, especially as storage improves. But I've seen so many "huge breakthroughs" in technology that just sort of piddled out that I'm not really going to get excited about it unless it starts going in on my street.

[Junkenstein]

Found the test stats

I'll dig through this shortly.

Also on that site:
http://solarroadways.com/prototypeII.shtml

There are some serious issues to address in the FAQ, you can tell where this is going to run into problems by the way they're thinking about shit. Example:

How will you replace damaged panels in a highway?

Since our system is modular, repair will be much quicker and easier than our current maintenance system for asphalt roads. We've learned that in the U.S., over $160 billion is lost each year in lost productivity from people sitting in traffic due to road maintenance.

Each of the panels contain their own microprocessor, which communicates wireless with surrounding panels. If one of them should become damaged and stop communicating, then the rest of the panels can report the problem. For instance, "I-95 mile marker 114.3 northbound lane, third panel in, panel number A013C419 not responding".

Each panel assembly weighs 110-pounds. A single operator could load a good panel into his/her truck and respond to the scene. The panel could be swapped out and reprogrammed in a few minutes. The damaged panel would then be returned to a repair center. Think of how this compares to pot hole repair!

I'm pretty sure that while one guy could throw around 50KG without too many problems, H+S regs would have a fucking field day and there would be workmen's comp claims going on everywhere.

How much weight can these panels support? Semi-trucks get pretty heavy!

Originally, we were designing toward 80,000 pounds. That was supposed to be the maximum legal limit for a semi-truck. However, we live in logging country and a former logging truck driver informed us that they don't have scales in the woods and that he'd topped out at 124,000 pounds. So we decided that we should go for 150,000 pounds. We then learned that oil companies can get permission to move refinery equipment up to 230,000 pounds on frozen roads, so we decided to shoot for 250,000 pounds.

Both 3D Finite Element Method analysis and actual load testing at civil engineering labs showed that our Solar Road Panels can handle that and more.

I'd really like more details on the nature of that testing. They claim that all tests have passed with exceptional results and then make no mention of the actual nature of the tests.

Mention they may have an indicative unit cost around july. That's going to be what makes or breaks it for the near future I'd guess.

It sounds like they're getting to the point where they really need a bastard who knows business in order to get this moving in a big way. They need to be doing much more than what they currently are. You should be lining up orders now and offering famous faces the roadway at cost to raise awareness etc.

I've said for a few years that one of the main problems with the green movement is that it's got no idea about how to sell itself effectively. I'm concerned to see these seem to make similar kinds of mistakes.

[East Coast Hustle]

Yeah, the designers are already talking about magnetic resonance induction charging tesla-fashion.

The tide thing still isn't going to work unless you can find some way of storing the power, given that peak and low output cycles are dictated by the moon, rather than usage patterns. So one day peak usage happens right on peak output and everyone gets a cup of coffee during the commercial break. Problem is the next day peak output is an hour late, the day after it's two hours.

Tidal generation is not on-demand. The grid is. I'm definitely leaning toward solar, right now. I was leaning toward solar even before they started making roads out of it. The rate of solar cell efficiency is accelerating like fuck meanwhile they're still trying to figure out what a tidal turbine is even going to look like.

A nifty idea, but still speculative as it is not (AFAIK) built or priced into the current model.

As for the tidal, while it's still only commercially feasible in a handful of places in the world it's pretty interesting to those of us who live in those places. Here's what's happening a few blocks down the street from me: https://penobscotbaypress.com/news/2014/jan/2/mma-approved-for-commercial-scale-tidal-energy-tes/

as for what they look like: http://inhabitat.com/maine-launches-the-first-commercial-tidal-power-project-in-the-us/eastport-maine/

Admittedly, it helps when you have some of the highest tides in the world. But so, if I'm not mistaken, does Scotland.

[P3nT4gR4m]

Nah, our ranges pale in comparison to the US and even parts of england that poke out off the shelf. Our west coast makes up for this with a million and one constriction channels, funneling the pressure (think Skookumchuck but pretty much fucking everywhere) there's 10-12 knots to be had in a lot of places on springs for a couple of hours a day and a hell of a sight less at neaps.

Thing is, the races and sounds happen because the channels are shallow and narrow, so there's only a couple of spots they can sink a turbine that won't block shipping. There was talk of one going in at Kyleakin on Skye but I think that's been scrapped now cos everybody thought it was a shit idea.

Barrage collection could work but again the problem comes down to a sub 5meter mean spring range

[East Coast Hustle]

Yeah, I see why that would be a problem. TBH, tidal generation is probably more suited to Maine and the Maritime Provinces than anywhere else in the world with the possible exceptions of southern Chile and Argentina.

[P3nT4gR4m]

On the plus side, we've almost got more windmills than trees now and we're fast approaching the 50% renewable milestone. With a bit of luck we can cut the deadweight down south, come september, install some solar roads and ride off into the sunset waving our hairy middle fingers.

This will be helped massively if (as I'm beginning to suspect) there's been some big advances in PV cells that I wasn't paying attention to (moore's law corollary maybe?) leading to an impending cost-effective off-grid domestic solar solution. We already got companies subsidised to install panels for free, giving us free leccy and making profit from the excess juice but I'd rather do it myself if it's worthwhile.

[Junkenstein]

Idiot idea, badly expressed because phone: apply to people if possible? Small solar cell on clothing go charge phone etc? Something about footfall possible here too, apply car park kinetic logic to shopping centres and such.

[Raz Tech]

Put it on NASCAR tracks, so we can finally get something useful out of that god-forsaken "sport"