Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Principia Discussion => Topic started by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on July 29, 2012, 06:34:38 PM

Title: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on July 29, 2012, 06:34:38 PM
I don't know if this is even possible due to copyright issues, but is anyone, or has anyone considered, trying to get permission to offer the collected Intermittens in one volume through Lulu at cost? That's something I'd really dig having a bound volume of.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on July 29, 2012, 06:38:33 PM
That would be kinda cool actually.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on July 29, 2012, 10:23:22 PM
Yeah, there are how many issues? It would be a pretty solid book I think.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: Placid Dingo on July 29, 2012, 10:50:23 PM
Ten. Pragmatically sorting the permissions would be hellish.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: Placid Dingo on July 29, 2012, 10:51:26 PM
Of course just having all episodes in one volume would be great.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on July 29, 2012, 11:58:14 PM
Quote from: Placid Dingo on July 29, 2012, 10:50:23 PM
Ten. Pragmatically sorting the permissions would be hellish.

It wouldn't be that hard to go through and make a list of the contributors, and since most of them are active here or elsewhere on the web I don't think it would be too hard to ask permission. Maybe I'll put that on my list of things to do while I'm housebound after surgery.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: Placid Dingo on July 30, 2012, 12:17:22 PM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 29, 2012, 11:58:14 PM
Quote from: Placid Dingo on July 29, 2012, 10:50:23 PM
Ten. Pragmatically sorting the permissions would be hellish.

It wouldn't be that hard to go through and make a list of the contributors, and since most of them are active here or elsewhere on the web I don't think it would be too hard to ask permission. Maybe I'll put that on my list of things to do while I'm housebound after surgery.

Well anything you want me to pass on to the contributors in number 10, I can definately pass on.

Also I started developing a record of contributors on the BIP wiki, not sure how complete it was.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: AFK on July 30, 2012, 01:43:21 PM
A good number of the cats who contributed to mine, #3, are no longer active here so that's going to be rough.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: Faust on July 30, 2012, 01:49:36 PM
The only person who may not want to allow use is Captain Utopia.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 30, 2012, 02:53:17 PM
They've already given permission, provided that all we're discussing is a collected work to be obtainable at cost, and that we don't change the order of the articles or any of the content.

Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on July 30, 2012, 07:05:45 PM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 30, 2012, 02:53:17 PM
They've already given permission, provided that all we're discussing is a collected work to be obtainable at cost, and that we don't change the order of the articles or any of the content.

That's cool! My only concern is that someone might object because Lulu would be profiting from providing their printing service. I'm not sure if that could be construed as a copyright issue any more than paying Kinkos to run copies would, though.

If, legally and ethically speaking, putting the compilation on Lulu at cost would not violate any copyrights or the spirit of Intermittens in the eyes of the contributors, I would really like to do it. I'm willing to contact everyone and ask individually if necessary, but it would simplify matters if that's already covered under the distribution agreement.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on July 30, 2012, 07:06:50 PM
On second thought, my concern is kind of silly, because Lulu is profiting from their service, not from the content.

Still, I'd rather ask, to avoid having someone angry because I didn't ask. So, I'll compile a contributor list and start asking.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 30, 2012, 07:07:25 PM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 30, 2012, 07:05:45 PM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 30, 2012, 02:53:17 PM
They've already given permission, provided that all we're discussing is a collected work to be obtainable at cost, and that we don't change the order of the articles or any of the content.

That's cool! My only concern is that someone might object because Lulu would be profiting from providing their printing service. I'm not sure if that could be construed as a copyright issue any more than paying Kinkos to run copies would, though.

If, legally and ethically speaking, putting the compilation on Lulu at cost would not violate any copyrights or the spirit of Intermittens in the eyes of the contributors, I would really like to do it. I'm willing to contact everyone and ask individually if necessary, but it would simplify matters if that's already covered under the distribution agreement.

I don't see that it changes anything that people have already agreed to.  The only difference is that you can now get a bound copy of the same thing.

And yeah, Lulu is making its profit on the printing, not on the intellectual property being printed, so I'm reasonably sure there's not an issue there.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on July 30, 2012, 07:09:15 PM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 30, 2012, 07:07:25 PM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 30, 2012, 07:05:45 PM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 30, 2012, 02:53:17 PM
They've already given permission, provided that all we're discussing is a collected work to be obtainable at cost, and that we don't change the order of the articles or any of the content.

That's cool! My only concern is that someone might object because Lulu would be profiting from providing their printing service. I'm not sure if that could be construed as a copyright issue any more than paying Kinkos to run copies would, though.

If, legally and ethically speaking, putting the compilation on Lulu at cost would not violate any copyrights or the spirit of Intermittens in the eyes of the contributors, I would really like to do it. I'm willing to contact everyone and ask individually if necessary, but it would simplify matters if that's already covered under the distribution agreement.

I don't see that it changes anything that people have already agreed to.  The only difference is that you can now get a bound copy of the same thing.

And yeah, Lulu is making its profit on the printing, not on the intellectual property being printed, so I'm reasonably sure there's not an issue there.

Should I just go for it then? And put a disclaimer on the listing that it's being sold at cost?
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on July 30, 2012, 07:09:53 PM
In your opinion, I mean. WWRPD???
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 30, 2012, 07:10:29 PM
I don't see why not.  You've got this thread as a warning, in case anyone doesn't like it.

If they haven't spoken up in 30 days, then I'd say you're in the clear.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: Faust on July 30, 2012, 07:16:07 PM
I would definitely announce it and give the relevant people a few days to object. People agreed for the free use of their work for the individual issue but some were explicitly non profit. Each issue had different stuff associated with it.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 30, 2012, 07:20:37 PM
Quote from: Faust on July 30, 2012, 07:16:07 PM
I would definitely announce it and give the relevant people a few days to object. People agreed for the free use of their work for the individual issue but some were explicitly non profit. Each issue had different stuff associated with it.

Um, this thread is an announcement.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: LMNO on July 30, 2012, 07:27:58 PM
If I've got anything in there, it's ok to use.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: Faust on July 30, 2012, 07:56:25 PM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 30, 2012, 07:20:37 PM
Quote from: Faust on July 30, 2012, 07:16:07 PM
I would definitely announce it and give the relevant people a few days to object. People agreed for the free use of their work for the individual issue but some were explicitly non profit. Each issue had different stuff associated with it.

Um, this thread is an announcement.
I'd post it where Cram and the other editors might see it, even if only Facebook Discordia.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 30, 2012, 08:02:40 PM
Quote from: Faust on July 30, 2012, 07:56:25 PM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 30, 2012, 07:20:37 PM
Quote from: Faust on July 30, 2012, 07:16:07 PM
I would definitely announce it and give the relevant people a few days to object. People agreed for the free use of their work for the individual issue but some were explicitly non profit. Each issue had different stuff associated with it.

Um, this thread is an announcement.
I'd post it where Cram and the other editors might see it, even if only Facebook Discordia.

Not a bad idea...It's what I would do.

However, the content was produced here, and if someone is camping out at FB/D and refuses to come here, I wouldn't start screaming about someone else's differing opinion.

This isn't like taking someone's work and including it in another effort, or charging for that work.  It's the same stuff as before, collected together in order, and sold for the cost of the printing, for someone who would like a hardcopy.

So, yeah...Not a bad idea to post it at FB/D, but not precisely necessary.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: Faust on July 30, 2012, 08:16:10 PM
Yeah that makes sense. The only one who doesn't have access is Captain Utopia. I can email him if no one else has a contact.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on July 30, 2012, 08:27:56 PM
OK then, I am going to announce it on FB/D, and Faust, if you wouldn't mind emailing CU to let him know, I will plan to put it together while I'm on leave a month from now.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: AFK on July 30, 2012, 08:38:53 PM
Jenne and Khara contributed to my issue, I'm not sure if they are on Facebook or not.

Other no-longer-active PD contributors to my issue include Enki, IO, and Manta Obscura.  Not sure where those cats hang out either. 
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 30, 2012, 08:45:25 PM
Quote from: Gen. Disregard on July 30, 2012, 08:38:53 PM
Jenne and Khara contributed to my issue, I'm not sure if they are on Facebook or not.

Other no-longer-active PD contributors to my issue include Enki, IO, and Manta Obscura.  Not sure where those cats hang out either.

Enki is here.

And an announcement on the two sites should be sufficient.  No change in the original permissions is being requested.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: Faust on July 30, 2012, 09:35:22 PM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 30, 2012, 08:27:56 PM
OK then, I am going to announce it on FB/D, and Faust, if you wouldn't mind emailing CU to let him know, I will plan to put it together while I'm on leave a month from now.

I've emailed him there. If he has a problem with it I might get him to contact you directly rather then acting like a mediator.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on July 30, 2012, 09:39:00 PM
Quote from: Faust on July 30, 2012, 09:35:22 PM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 30, 2012, 08:27:56 PM
OK then, I am going to announce it on FB/D, and Faust, if you wouldn't mind emailing CU to let him know, I will plan to put it together while I'm on leave a month from now.

I've emailed him there. If he has a problem with it I might get him to contact you directly rather then acting like a mediator.

That's totally reasonable, feel free to give him my email address.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: Placid Dingo on July 30, 2012, 10:52:35 PM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 30, 2012, 07:20:37 PM
Quote from: Faust on July 30, 2012, 07:16:07 PM
I would definitely announce it and give the relevant people a few days to object. People agreed for the free use of their work for the individual issue but some were explicitly non profit. Each issue had different stuff associated with it.

Um, this thread is an announcement.

I gathered pretty wide. I'll check my contributor list when I can
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on July 30, 2012, 11:07:19 PM
THIS IS A GREAT IDEA! But I demand you sell it at Cost Plus My 10%.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: Placid Dingo on July 30, 2012, 11:11:25 PM
Actually also just to say;

If I provide content, generally, (I'm down with this project) I'll be pretty pissed is ANYONE makes money. Including Lulu. And as far as I'm concerned Lulu's profits from printing my content, is Lulu's profit from my content. So I don't think 'Its Intermittens so it's sure to be OK' is a forgone conclusion.

Cain was the most opposed to commercial application in previous discussions; someone might need to message him over at postmodern prince.

I also have CC non commercial Flickr images and XKCD in mine.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on July 30, 2012, 11:17:37 PM
Seriously?

If money changes hands somewhere for somebody, what does it matter? Are you going to get rich either way? Are they going to get rich? Even if they do, who fucking cares? Do the ideas in Intermittens deserve to be gagged and bound, and kept out of any kind of public light just because some printer somewhere made five cents? Is money that important?

If something as awesome as Intermittens is going to be hamstrung and kept in the eternal broom closet of PD because somebody's going to get all "where's MY slice" over the ten fucking cents this thing burns in profit to LuLu, then there's probably no hope for Discordia. I'd consider whatever profit a service like LuLu makes to be no more than a slight friction in the process of a work like Intermittens moving from the digital to the tangible. A completely acceptable, expected, and hardly noticed friction.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: Placid Dingo on July 31, 2012, 12:35:51 AM
Pretty sure I made it clear that I'm down with this going ahead.

I do want to check in with the girl who made my cover.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on July 31, 2012, 12:39:55 AM
Don't mind me, I'm grumpy because I have to get up at 3AM and go to Utah tomorrow.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: Freeky on July 31, 2012, 03:05:29 AM
Quote from: v3x on July 31, 2012, 12:39:55 AM
Don't mind me, I'm grumpy because I have to get up at 3AM and go to Utah tomorrow.

I'm pretty sure Utah would make anyone grumpy.  That's why there are Mormons.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 31, 2012, 01:58:10 PM
Quote from: Placid Dingo on July 30, 2012, 11:11:25 PM
If I provide content, generally, (I'm down with this project) I'll be pretty pissed is ANYONE makes money. Including Lulu. And as far as I'm concerned Lulu's profits from printing my content, is Lulu's profit from my content. So I don't think 'Its Intermittens so it's sure to be OK' is a forgone conclusion.

Lulu is making a profit off of the service of printing the book.  You could pay them to print the phone book, it would cost the same, page per page.  Note the subtle difference.

But okay, let's play that game.  Why the fuck not?  Why accomplish anything?



Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 31, 2012, 01:58:41 PM
Quote from: Placid Dingo on July 31, 2012, 12:35:51 AM
Pretty sure I made it clear that I'm down with this going ahead.

Bullshit.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 31, 2012, 01:59:33 PM
Quote from: v3x on July 30, 2012, 11:17:37 PM
If something as awesome as Intermittens is going to be hamstrung and kept in the eternal broom closet of PD because somebody's going to get all "where's MY slice" over the ten fucking cents this thing burns in profit to LuLu, then there's probably no hope for Discordia. I'd consider whatever profit a service like LuLu makes to be no more than a slight friction in the process of a work like Intermittens moving from the digital to the tangible. A completely acceptable, expected, and hardly noticed friction.

If you print it yourself, the toner company makes money!

STOP WHORING OUT PD!
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 31, 2012, 02:11:15 PM
Let's just get this straight, so everyone understands:

Collecting a newsletter-style thing we did into one volume is bad, because printing companies charge for their services, even though we had all agreed that the previous work could be distributed as long as the editor or whomever didn't use it to make money.

Because it would really suck if this sort of thing allowed Discordia to creep out of our little club.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: Placid Dingo on July 31, 2012, 02:11:32 PM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 31, 2012, 01:58:10 PM
Quote from: Placid Dingo on July 30, 2012, 11:11:25 PM
If I provide content, generally, (I'm down with this project) I'll be pretty pissed is ANYONE makes money. Including Lulu. And as far as I'm concerned Lulu's profits from printing my content, is Lulu's profit from my content. So I don't think 'Its Intermittens so it's sure to be OK' is a forgone conclusion.

Lulu is making a profit off of the service of printing the book.  You could pay them to print the phone book, it would cost the same, page per page.  Note the subtle difference.

But okay, let's play that game.  Why the fuck not?  Why accomplish anything?

look, if I wrote a story and you printed it on lulu, it takes away my ability to make money from selling it myself. Cory Doctorow writes stuff under a Creative Commons non commercial license. If you print his work out at cost on Lulu I will bet you anything that his publishers response won't be ' all good yo, they're making money from printing, not writing.'

Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: LMNO on July 31, 2012, 02:12:26 PM
Aaaaand another good PD idea crashes and burns.


THANKS A LOT, OBAMA RON PAUL!
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: LMNO on July 31, 2012, 02:14:29 PM
Dear Placid Dingo,


A certain number of people desire a well-bound, dead-tree collection of Intermittens.  A solution was devised.  You are against it.


Please let us know what a proper solution for you would be, given the desired parameters.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: Faust on July 31, 2012, 02:15:27 PM
Got the all clear from CU
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: Placid Dingo on July 31, 2012, 02:16:02 PM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 31, 2012, 01:58:41 PM
Quote from: Placid Dingo on July 31, 2012, 12:35:51 AM
Pretty sure I made it clear that I'm down with this going ahead.

Bullshit.

Mmm. In retrospect " I'm down with this project" was pretty ambiguous. I may have sounded like I was saying I'm desirous of tearing down this project. Not in fact my intended implication.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 31, 2012, 02:16:53 PM
Quote from: Placid Dingo on July 31, 2012, 02:11:32 PM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 31, 2012, 01:58:10 PM
Quote from: Placid Dingo on July 30, 2012, 11:11:25 PM
If I provide content, generally, (I'm down with this project) I'll be pretty pissed is ANYONE makes money. Including Lulu. And as far as I'm concerned Lulu's profits from printing my content, is Lulu's profit from my content. So I don't think 'Its Intermittens so it's sure to be OK' is a forgone conclusion.

Lulu is making a profit off of the service of printing the book.  You could pay them to print the phone book, it would cost the same, page per page.  Note the subtle difference.

But okay, let's play that game.  Why the fuck not?  Why accomplish anything?

look, if I wrote a story and you printed it on lulu, it takes away my ability to make money from selling it myself. Cory Doctorow writes stuff under a Creative Commons non commercial license. If you print his work out at cost on Lulu I will bet you anything that his publishers response won't be ' all good yo, they're making money from printing, not writing.'

No, it fucking doesn't.  Lulu holds no copyright, and you can set your copyrights as you see fit. 

But you've made your point.  We should probably take all the intermittens down now, right?  I mean, they're right there, and anyone can read/download them, so you won't be able to sell the work in question, as it is offered for free.

So, yeah.  No more cooperative works, as it either becomes "I own your shit now", or "We can't actually do anything with anything", and there's nothing in between.

Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 31, 2012, 02:18:37 PM
Quote from: Placid Dingo on July 31, 2012, 02:16:02 PM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 31, 2012, 01:58:41 PM
Quote from: Placid Dingo on July 31, 2012, 12:35:51 AM
Pretty sure I made it clear that I'm down with this going ahead.

Bullshit.

Mmm. In retrospect " I'm down with this project" was pretty ambiguous. I may have sounded like I was saying I'm desirous of tearing down this project. Not in fact my intended implication.

That's not how I read it.

How I read it was "Don't do this unless you manage to personally contact everyone involved, which is fucking impossible at this point", despite the fact that everyone had already voluntarily put their stuff in intermittens and this is merely a collection of intermittens.

Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 31, 2012, 02:19:19 PM
Quote from: Faust on July 31, 2012, 02:15:27 PM
Got the all clear from CU

Great.  Now we just have to track down Semaj, who has been missing for 13 months.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: Placid Dingo on July 31, 2012, 02:21:40 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on July 31, 2012, 02:14:29 PM
Dear Placid Dingo,


A certain number of people desire a well-bound, dead-tree collection of Intermittens.  A solution was devised.  You are against it.


Please let us know what a proper solution for you would be, given the desired parameters.

Seriously?

Look, I'm not going to go there right now. It's become pretty clear that people are happy to define my opinion and intent for me.

So I guess, since it's been decided by committee that I'm opposed to it, and further decided that my motivation is generically anti-capitalist, the committee can also decide for itself what my solution is, then explain why I agree to it. Problem solved.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 31, 2012, 02:22:15 PM
Quote from: Placid Dingo on July 31, 2012, 02:21:40 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on July 31, 2012, 02:14:29 PM
Dear Placid Dingo,


A certain number of people desire a well-bound, dead-tree collection of Intermittens.  A solution was devised.  You are against it.


Please let us know what a proper solution for you would be, given the desired parameters.

Seriously?

Look, I'm not going to go there right now. It's become pretty clear that people are happy to define my opinion and intent for me.

So I guess, since it's been decided by committee that I'm opposed to it, and further decided that my motivation is generically anti-capitalist, the committee can also decide for itself what my solution is, then explain why I agree to it. Problem solved.

So, your argument is that you didn't say what you said?
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: Placid Dingo on July 31, 2012, 02:24:33 PM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 31, 2012, 02:22:15 PM
Quote from: Placid Dingo on July 31, 2012, 02:21:40 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on July 31, 2012, 02:14:29 PM
Dear Placid Dingo,


A certain number of people desire a well-bound, dead-tree collection of Intermittens.  A solution was devised.  You are against it.


Please let us know what a proper solution for you would be, given the desired parameters.

Seriously?

Look, I'm not going to go there right now. It's become pretty clear that people are happy to define my opinion and intent for me.

So I guess, since it's been decided by committee that I'm opposed to it, and further decided that my motivation is generically anti-capitalist, the committee can also decide for itself what my solution is, then explain why I agree to it. Problem solved.

So, your argument is that you didn't say what you said?

My argument is that I didn't say what you said I said. But feel free to work with your above narrative if you prefer it.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 31, 2012, 02:26:17 PM
Quote from: Placid Dingo on July 31, 2012, 02:24:33 PM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 31, 2012, 02:22:15 PM
Quote from: Placid Dingo on July 31, 2012, 02:21:40 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on July 31, 2012, 02:14:29 PM
Dear Placid Dingo,


A certain number of people desire a well-bound, dead-tree collection of Intermittens.  A solution was devised.  You are against it.


Please let us know what a proper solution for you would be, given the desired parameters.

Seriously?

Look, I'm not going to go there right now. It's become pretty clear that people are happy to define my opinion and intent for me.

So I guess, since it's been decided by committee that I'm opposed to it, and further decided that my motivation is generically anti-capitalist, the committee can also decide for itself what my solution is, then explain why I agree to it. Problem solved.

So, your argument is that you didn't say what you said?

My argument is that I didn't say what you said I said. But feel free to work with your above narrative if you prefer it.

Whatever.  I have learned my lesson, here.  There is no middle ground anywhere.

Don't accomplish anything.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: Placid Dingo on July 31, 2012, 02:30:27 PM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 31, 2012, 02:18:37 PM
Quote from: Placid Dingo on July 31, 2012, 02:16:02 PM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 31, 2012, 01:58:41 PM
Quote from: Placid Dingo on July 31, 2012, 12:35:51 AM
Pretty sure I made it clear that I'm down with this going ahead.

Bullshit.

Mmm. In retrospect " I'm down with this project" was pretty ambiguous. I may have sounded like I was saying I'm desirous of tearing down this project. Not in fact my intended implication.

That's not how I read it.

How I read it was "Don't do this unless you manage to personally contact everyone involved, which is fucking impossible at this point", despite the fact that everyone had already voluntarily put their stuff in intermittens and this is merely a collection of intermittens.

Creative Commons isn't a guarentee that someone is ok with a dead tree version. Thats my point. XKCD specifically may not be.

But youre free to interpret it as a don't do this if you want to have a problem to howl about rather than a conversation about copyright.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 31, 2012, 02:32:08 PM
Quote from: Placid Dingo on July 31, 2012, 02:30:27 PM
Creative Commons isn't a guarentee that someone is ok with a dead tree version. Thats my point.

Yep. 

Well done.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: Placid Dingo on July 31, 2012, 02:32:52 PM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 31, 2012, 02:16:53 PM
Quote from: Placid Dingo on July 31, 2012, 02:11:32 PM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 31, 2012, 01:58:10 PM
Quote from: Placid Dingo on July 30, 2012, 11:11:25 PM
If I provide content, generally, (I'm down with this project) I'll be pretty pissed is ANYONE makes money. Including Lulu. And as far as I'm concerned Lulu's profits from printing my content, is Lulu's profit from my content. So I don't think 'Its Intermittens so it's sure to be OK' is a forgone conclusion.

Lulu is making a profit off of the service of printing the book.  You could pay them to print the phone book, it would cost the same, page per page.  Note the subtle difference.

But okay, let's play that game.  Why the fuck not?  Why accomplish anything?

look, if I wrote a story and you printed it on lulu, it takes away my ability to make money from selling it myself. Cory Doctorow writes stuff under a Creative Commons non commercial license. If you print his work out at cost on Lulu I will bet you anything that his publishers response won't be ' all good yo, they're making money from printing, not writing.'

No, it fucking doesn't.  Lulu holds no copyright, and you can set your copyrights as you see fit. 

But you've made your point.  We should probably take all the intermittens down now, right?  I mean, they're right there, and anyone can read/download them, so you won't be able to sell the work in question, as it is offered for free.

So, yeah.  No more cooperative works, as it either becomes "I own your shit now", or "We can't actually do anything with anything", and there's nothing in between.

Not copyright. I mean if you sell my book for 10$ I can't sell it for $12.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 31, 2012, 02:36:43 PM
Given this, I will finish working on BIP2013, then I will be doing no other co-op projects at all.  There's either the "by virtue of taking part, this is all MINE" mindset, or there's the "if you change format and let this stuff out of our little club, then you have to go back and get everyone to agree to what they already agreed to" mindset.

And that's a damn shame, but it is what it is.

But, hey, you got what you came for1, and isn't that what really matters?





1A chance to disagree with or stymie either Nigel or myself.  A worthy goal under any circumstances.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 31, 2012, 02:37:50 PM
Quote from: Placid Dingo on July 31, 2012, 02:32:52 PM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 31, 2012, 02:16:53 PM
Quote from: Placid Dingo on July 31, 2012, 02:11:32 PM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 31, 2012, 01:58:10 PM
Quote from: Placid Dingo on July 30, 2012, 11:11:25 PM
If I provide content, generally, (I'm down with this project) I'll be pretty pissed is ANYONE makes money. Including Lulu. And as far as I'm concerned Lulu's profits from printing my content, is Lulu's profit from my content. So I don't think 'Its Intermittens so it's sure to be OK' is a forgone conclusion.

Lulu is making a profit off of the service of printing the book.  You could pay them to print the phone book, it would cost the same, page per page.  Note the subtle difference.

But okay, let's play that game.  Why the fuck not?  Why accomplish anything?

look, if I wrote a story and you printed it on lulu, it takes away my ability to make money from selling it myself. Cory Doctorow writes stuff under a Creative Commons non commercial license. If you print his work out at cost on Lulu I will bet you anything that his publishers response won't be ' all good yo, they're making money from printing, not writing.'

No, it fucking doesn't.  Lulu holds no copyright, and you can set your copyrights as you see fit. 

But you've made your point.  We should probably take all the intermittens down now, right?  I mean, they're right there, and anyone can read/download them, so you won't be able to sell the work in question, as it is offered for free.

So, yeah.  No more cooperative works, as it either becomes "I own your shit now", or "We can't actually do anything with anything", and there's nothing in between.

Not copyright. I mean if you sell my book for 10$ I can't sell it for $12.

Right now, you can get it for FREE.

But what the hell?  Go peddle your books.  Let us know how that works out.  Especially seeing as how you can only sell your own contributions to the Intermittens, and not the whole thing.

Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: Placid Dingo on July 31, 2012, 02:42:30 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on July 31, 2012, 02:14:29 PM
Dear Placid Dingo,


A certain number of people desire a well-bound, dead-tree collection of Intermittens.  A solution was devised.  You are against it.


Please let us know what a proper solution for you would be, given the desired parameters.

I actually de-irritated quite quickly there.

So.my answer is that your assumption is wrong. I really love the idea of a bound version.

Mine borrows wider than PD. The back page has details of most works with non commercial license. I'd suggest checking in with them. I'll also check with the girl who did my cover but don't expect an issue.

Thats my view. Sorry for snaking - I find it really unpleasant to have other people putting words in my mouth, though I'm sure there was some honest misunderstanding.

If the Nigel wills it maybe some of this mess can be split off.

I will
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 31, 2012, 02:44:53 PM
Quote from: Placid Dingo on July 31, 2012, 02:42:30 PM
Thats my view. Sorry for snaking - I find it really unpleasant to have other people putting words in my mouth, though I'm sure there was some honest misunderstanding.

I gotta ask you:

When you say "putting words in your mouth", are you actually saying, "I'd like to have both said what I said and also NOT what I said, as convenience dictates."?

Because, if you are, you may have a bright future in politics.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 31, 2012, 02:46:09 PM
Quote from: Placid Dingo on July 31, 2012, 02:42:30 PM

If the Nigel wills it maybe some of this mess can be split off.

I will

So that later, when she prints the book, you can say, "I disagreed, but someone moved my post!"

Riiiiiiight.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: LMNO on July 31, 2012, 02:48:01 PM
Quote from: Placid Dingo on July 31, 2012, 02:21:40 PM
It's become pretty clear that people are happy to define my opinion and intent for me.

Quote from: Placid Dingo on July 30, 2012, 11:11:25 PM
If I provide content, generally, (I'm down with this project) I'll be pretty pissed is ANYONE makes money. Including Lulu. And as far as I'm concerned Lulu's profits from printing my content, is Lulu's profit from my content. So I don't think 'Its Intermittens so it's sure to be OK' is a forgone conclusion.

You said yourself you'd be "pissed" if we used Lulu to make hardcopy versions of Intermittens.  I'm asking you what your solution would be.


Now, your point about XCKD and whatever images you used is valid.  We may need to strip any non-original content, or not manipulated enough to consider original.  That's fair.  But that's not what you're upset about.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: LMNO on July 31, 2012, 02:48:45 PM
Ok, so:  If we remove non-original content, we're good?


Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: Placid Dingo on July 31, 2012, 02:52:44 PM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 31, 2012, 02:37:50 PM
Quote from: Placid Dingo on July 31, 2012, 02:32:52 PM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 31, 2012, 02:16:53 PM
Quote from: Placid Dingo on July 31, 2012, 02:11:32 PM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 31, 2012, 01:58:10 PM
Quote from: Placid Dingo on July 30, 2012, 11:11:25 PM
If I provide content, generally, (I'm down with this project) I'll be pretty pissed is ANYONE makes money. Including Lulu. And as far as I'm concerned Lulu's profits from printing my content, is Lulu's profit from my content. So I don't think 'Its Intermittens so it's sure to be OK' is a forgone conclusion.

Lulu is making a profit off of the service of printing the book.  You could pay them to print the phone book, it would cost the same, page per page.  Note the subtle difference.

But okay, let's play that game.  Why the fuck not?  Why accomplish anything?

look, if I wrote a story and you printed it on lulu, it takes away my ability to make money from selling it myself. Cory Doctorow writes stuff under a Creative Commons non commercial license. If you print his work out at cost on Lulu I will bet you anything that his publishers response won't be ' all good yo, they're making money from printing, not writing.'

No, it fucking doesn't.  Lulu holds no copyright, and you can set your copyrights as you see fit. 

But you've made your point.  We should probably take all the intermittens down now, right?  I mean, they're right there, and anyone can read/download them, so you won't be able to sell the work in question, as it is offered for free.

So, yeah.  No more cooperative works, as it either becomes "I own your shit now", or "We can't actually do anything with anything", and there's nothing in between.

Not copyright. I mean if you sell my book for 10$ I can't sell it for $12.

Right now, you can get it for FREE.

But what the hell?  Go peddle your books.  Let us know how that works out.  Especially seeing as how you can only sell your own contributions to the Intermittens, and not the whole thing.

Urgh. This whole part of the conversation is bogged down in misunderstanding. I do take responsibility for that to some extent, I've been a bit unclear.

If somebody puts a non commercial lisence on a story, they assume theyre the only one to sell it. if I put a Cc-NC on a story, I assume it won't be sold except by me.

I brought it up cos theres CC-NC stuff in my edition. The makers will probably be ok with it. But it's not a forgone conclusion.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: LMNO on July 31, 2012, 02:55:58 PM
Ok, I'm willing to make a clean break here.


(http://oliverdowling.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/in000008_small.png)



STARTING OVER:

It appears that some content in Intermittens came from non-PD sources.  That content should be removed from Intermittens prior to hard copy printing.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: Placid Dingo on July 31, 2012, 02:56:48 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on July 31, 2012, 02:48:45 PM
Ok, so:  If we remove non-original content, we're good?

I dunno. Maybe. Maybe it'll even be ok without stripping most of the non original content. Theres some great flickr pics which could very well be taken by people ok with reuse in hard copy.

I'll address your other post in a sec.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: Placid Dingo on July 31, 2012, 03:04:33 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on July 31, 2012, 02:48:01 PM
Quote from: Placid Dingo on July 31, 2012, 02:21:40 PM
It's become pretty clear that people are happy to define my opinion and intent for me.

Quote from: Placid Dingo on July 30, 2012, 11:11:25 PM
If I provide content, generally, (I'm down with this project) I'll be pretty pissed is ANYONE makes money. Including Lulu. And as far as I'm concerned Lulu's profits from printing my content, is Lulu's profit from my content. So I don't think 'Its Intermittens so it's sure to be OK' is a forgone conclusion.

You said yourself you'd be "pissed" if we used Lulu to make hardcopy versions of Intermittens.  I'm asking you what your solution would be.


Now, your point about XCKD and whatever images you used is valid.  We may need to strip any non-original content, or not manipulated enough to consider original.  That's fair.  But that's not what you're upset about.

Ah I see.

I meant that personally as a general rule I would be upset if something I provided for non commercial use was used commercially. Not that I opposed hardcopy IM.

I said this as there seemed to be the idea of it being a forgone conclusion that anyone involved would probably be down with a hardcopy. I'm not sure it thats fair to say or not.

I said generally. I also put in brackets that I specifically was ok with this project. I may have been a bit unclear and I do apologise for that.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: Placid Dingo on July 31, 2012, 03:15:46 PM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 31, 2012, 02:44:53 PM
Quote from: Placid Dingo on July 31, 2012, 02:42:30 PM
Thats my view. Sorry for snaking - I find it really unpleasant to have other people putting words in my mouth, though I'm sure there was some honest misunderstanding.

I gotta ask you:

When you say "putting words in your mouth", are you actually saying, "I'd like to have both said what I said and also NOT what I said, as convenience dictates."?

Because, if you are, you may have a bright future in politics.

I mean, after I said that I was ok with it, it kind of grated to be told repeatedly that I'm opposed to it

Or that my only motivation on PD is to fuck with you and Nigel.

Or that a thread split is about hiding my wicked ways so I can tell filthy lies.

Or that my message is ' never achieve anything.'

I mean, believe the above if you like. It certainly makes me look more interesting. But it's not really consistent with reality.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on July 31, 2012, 04:22:31 PM
OK, so I'm going to read between the lines here, and guess that the issue here is that Placid Dingo used some outside content in his issue of Intermittens without getting explicit consent from the copyright holders.

IF this content is Creative Commons non-commercial, then yes, legally speaking, it is OK to pay a service to print copies. The service is, as has been pointed out, for the copies, not for the content. This is not a gray area or a wild guess; Lulu is the legal equivalent of Kinkos in that respect. We should be able to host the compiled edition on Lulu, available for free download or, at the user's option, they can pay Lulu to print it out, bind it, and ship it to them. No money will exchange hands for anything BUT the printing, binding, and shipping. No profit will be made from the content. All original sources will be credited. Placid Dingo, if you failed to credit any original sources in your issue, or if any sources used were not Creative Commons or public domain, it is your responsibility to rectify that error.

Does anyone have an objection to this? Does anyone dispute this? Are there further issues anyone wants to bring up?
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on July 31, 2012, 04:25:41 PM
Also, Placid Dingo, if you are OK with this moving forward, can you please clarify that you rescind your previous statements about "being pissed" if Lulu profits from the printing, etc.?
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: AFK on July 31, 2012, 05:11:37 PM
I would propose/request that the editors of the various issues get a chance to proofread/review a final combined draft before it is sent off. 
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on July 31, 2012, 06:47:56 PM
I think that only material under CC BY-NC-ND (Non-Commercial NoDerivs) would require additional approval for a bound copy of Intermittens. As stated previously, Lulu makes money on the 'publishing' aspect, not the content aspect, so CC doesn't apply. However, a bound copy could be considered a derivative and thus anything licensed that restricted the ability to create a derivative could be a problem. I have no idea why any editor would accept content under that particular license though.

That being said, any content in any Intermittens should have some level of approval, attribution etc including graphics etc. If not, we should get that fixed ASAP... Lulu or no Lulu. If it is all approved and under any CC license other than the ND one, then a Lulu copy should be fine.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: Placid Dingo on July 31, 2012, 09:35:25 PM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 31, 2012, 04:22:31 PM
OK, so I'm going to read between the lines here, and guess that the issue here is that Placid Dingo used some outside content in his issue of Intermittens without getting explicit consent from the copyright holders.

IF this content is Creative Commons non-commercial, then yes, legally speaking, it is OK to pay a service to print copies. The service is, as has been pointed out, for the copies, not for the content. This is not a gray area or a wild guess; Lulu is the legal equivalent of Kinkos in that respect. We should be able to host the compiled edition on Lulu, available for free download or, at the user's option, they can pay Lulu to print it out, bind it, and ship it to them. No money will exchange hands for anything BUT the printing, binding, and shipping. No profit will be made from the content. All original sources will be credited. Placid Dingo, if you failed to credit any original sources in your issue, or if any sources used were not Creative Commons or public domain, it is your responsibility to rectify that error.

Does anyone have an objection to this? Does anyone dispute this? Are there further issues anyone wants to bring up?

Yeah I used a few things that were NC-CC without asking.
I don't have an issue.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: Placid Dingo on July 31, 2012, 09:54:17 PM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on July 31, 2012, 04:25:41 PM
Also, Placid Dingo, if you are OK with this moving forward, can you please clarify that you rescind your previous statements about "being pissed" if Lulu profits from the printing, etc.?

...

Just in case the four or five other times I've said it have been insufficient, yes I can say I'm good with this project.

I would GENERALLY (I'M DOWN WITH THIS PROJECT) be upset if work I lisenced under an NC-CC lisence and it was used commercially. But this is a general statement and not specific to IM which I am ok with.

I'm feeling a bit uncertain about the legality of providing NC-CC content on Lulu, just because as mentioned I can't imagine authors like Doctorow having a publisher print a book when it will inevitably turn up cheaper on a POD service. But thats a gap in my knowledge and this isn't my project so dont read it as an objection.

I've just contacted the girl about if she had an issue with the use of the cover.

Also I attributed the fuck out of my sources.


I worded things    a little unclearly. But to put up with a rampaging storm of hysterical ' herp derp y u hate ambition' horse shit nstead of just asking for clarification especially since after the FIRST round of screeching I posted that I was good with this project, it's fucking shit.

If Roger wants to never ever do a project again because he's decided I'm an obstructionist bastard, well fuck off. I was treated like a total cunt in this thread for comments I made every fucking effort to clarify.

And I appreciate that LMNO and Nigel weren't trying to antagonise me. I'm just pissed at the way this thread went down.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 31, 2012, 10:05:28 PM
Quote from: Placid Dingo on July 31, 2012, 09:54:17 PM
If Roger wants to never ever do a project again because he's decided I'm an obstructionist bastard, well fuck off. I was treated like a total cunt in this thread for comments I made every fucking effort to clarify.

:lord:

The simple fact of the matter is that I am an asshole that overreacts to damn near anything.

"Looks like rain."

"GODDAMMIT YOU SONSABITCHES I'LL NEVER PLAN A MAINTENANCE OUTAGE AGAIN I HATE YOU GUISE!"

"Um."

"WHAT?"

"You're a little tense today."

"NO I AM NOT FUCKING TENSE!"
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: Placid Dingo on July 31, 2012, 10:06:29 PM
You dont say.

But OK then.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 31, 2012, 10:07:17 PM
Quote from: Placid Dingo on July 31, 2012, 10:06:29 PM
You dont say...

I am told that sort of thing, but by people I do not find reliable.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: LMNO on August 01, 2012, 01:27:07 PM
Bullhockey.  Roger is the epitome of human kindness and tact.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: Placid Dingo on August 01, 2012, 02:32:08 PM
Anyway, I didn't mean to crack it, and I'm sorry for the thread detail.

Also, being a nice big collection, it would probably be cool to have an introduction in there.

I'd also love to either write up or see someone else provide a sales pitch pointing out that IM is technically still current and reminding people of the best way to get involved and take on an editorship role.

Related thought; the Project Board could make the whole process of producing new editions a lot smoother too.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on August 01, 2012, 04:08:17 PM
Dingo, print on demand is NEVER cheaper than a publishing run. EVER. That's why people don't use it when they can afford a proper print run.

Some of Doctorow's books are available on Lulu:
http://www.lulu.com/shop/search.ep?keyWords=doctorow&sorter=relevance-desc

Making a book available to download free or print on demand at cost is not the same as commercial use. The root of the word is "commerce", and by putting it on Lulu at cost I would be neither buying nor selling copyrighted material, nor is Lulu buying nor selling copyrighted material. If I was charging above cost, I would be.

Thanks for creating the opportunity to have this conversation and make that clarification, though.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on August 01, 2012, 06:25:37 PM
<WARNING: TROLL AHEAD. IF YOU REACT NEGATIVELY TO THIS POST, IT IS IN NO WAY MY FAULT SINCE I HAVE FOREWARNED YOU THAT THE FOLLOWING STATEMENT IS MERELY INTENDED TO TROLL YOU.>


So if I scan in a bunch of Harry Potter books and sell them on Lulu at cost, I'm not breaking copyright law?


</TROLL>
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: LMNO on August 01, 2012, 06:38:13 PM
I'm pretty sure the copyright on Harry Potter includes "derivitive works", or something to that effect, which prevents the unauthorized reproduction of said work, regardless of whether there is a profit or not.

The CC license in question is "non-commercial" which is somewhat different.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on August 01, 2012, 06:42:07 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on August 01, 2012, 06:38:13 PM
I'm pretty sure the copyright on Harry Potter includes "derivitive works", or something to that effect, which prevents the unauthorized reproduction of said work, regardless of whether there is a profit or not.

The CC license in question is "non-commercial" which is somewhat different.

Quote<WARNING: TROLL AHEAD. IF YOU REACT NEGATIVELY TO THIS POST, IT IS IN NO WAY MY FAULT SINCE I HAVE FOREWARNED YOU THAT THE FOLLOWING STATEMENT IS MERELY INTENDED TO TROLL YOU.>
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: LMNO on August 01, 2012, 06:43:43 PM
I figured that a correct answer right out of the gate would put any speculation to rest.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on August 01, 2012, 06:45:28 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on August 01, 2012, 06:43:43 PM
I figured that a correct answer right out of the gate would put any speculation to rest.

It occurs to me that we have, once again, steered ourselves back onto the rocks of one of The Topics.  In this case, intellectual property.

Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: LMNO on August 01, 2012, 06:46:32 PM
HARD STARBOARD!
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on August 01, 2012, 06:48:44 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on August 01, 2012, 06:46:32 PM
HARD STARBOARD!

Whoops.  Over-correction.  Now we're talking about drugs.

You're fired.  Turn the wheel over to Hoops.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: LMNO on August 01, 2012, 06:49:40 PM
BUT SIR!  HE'S CANADIAN!
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on August 01, 2012, 06:51:19 PM
I don't actually see a problem anyway. All we have to do is not put it on Lulu at all, but to release it in PDF format, as has already been done, but a PDF format which just so happens to be fully compatible with Lulu and whose download page might accidentally include a link to Lulu and, by strange cosmic coincidence, a set of instructions for how to use Lulu to turn a PDF into a physical book.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on August 01, 2012, 06:54:25 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on August 01, 2012, 06:49:40 PM
BUT SIR!  HE'S CANADIAN!

They have hydrofoils.  It will be okay.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞ on August 02, 2012, 03:13:59 AM
The noncommercial option for Creative Commons licenses is a huge clusterfuck that is best avoided by not using any form of CC-NC:

Quote
On a scale of 1-100 where 1 is "definitely noncommercial" and 100 is "definitely commercial" [...] creators and users gave the specific use case "not-for-profit organization uses work on its site, organization makes enough money from ads to cover hosting costs" ratings of 59.2 and 71.7, respectively.
https://creativecommons.org/weblog/entry/17127

That's not at all what I thought it meant. I thought CC-NC meant as long as you don't exceed "at cost", you're still non-commercial, however, the polls above suggest I was wildly mistaken.

I'm not sure people understand how constricting the NC designation actually is.

From a more in-depth article that goes into detail about how NC licenses may be far more constrictive than one might think, and are best avoided:

Quote
The potential to benefit financially from mere distribution is therefore quite small. Where it exists due to a predominance of old media, it is likely to disappear rapidly. The people who are likely to be hurt by an -NC license are not large corporations, but small publications like weblogs, advertising-funded radio stations, or local newspapers.

Indeed, to make a substantial profit with your work, a company will have to provide added value beyond what is available for free. An -NC license stops any such attempt to add value; this may be the author's intent.

Quote
The Share-Alike principle, while not applicable to monetary benefits, does protect the content from abusive exploitation without forbidding experiments. These experiments, however, are essential to build a true, innovative economy around free content. Especially when dealing with collaborative works, -NC makes such commercial experiments practically impossible, as every single contributor would have to give explicit permission.
http://freedomdefined.org/Licenses/NC
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on August 02, 2012, 03:50:32 AM
We could just print the Intermittens compilation anyway, with anything contributed by people who haven't given their approval for this incarnation, redacted like government "declassified" documents. It would add to the mystery.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on August 02, 2012, 06:45:06 AM
Quote from: v3x on August 01, 2012, 06:25:37 PM
<WARNING: TROLL AHEAD. IF YOU REACT NEGATIVELY TO THIS POST, IT IS IN NO WAY MY FAULT SINCE I HAVE FOREWARNED YOU THAT THE FOLLOWING STATEMENT IS MERELY INTENDED TO TROLL YOU.>


So if I scan in a bunch of Harry Potter books and sell them on Lulu at cost, I'm not breaking copyright law?


</TROLL>

That was a lame troll, because copyright law prohibits anyone but the copyright holder distributing copyrighted work whether they charge for it or not.
Title: Re: Collected Intermittens in print?
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on August 02, 2012, 06:46:38 AM
Quote from: v3x on August 02, 2012, 03:50:32 AM
We could just print the Intermittens compilation anyway, with anything contributed by people who haven't given their approval for this incarnation, redacted like government "declassified" documents. It would add to the mystery.

That would be a good idea, but right now I don't want to even think about dealing with it, so fuck it.