Turtles all the way down

[navkat]

Depends on perspective. Advancement and protection of the self and one's progeny is is logical from a biological standpoint. Anything that lessens your advantages or resources (like baking someone a cake) is illogical from that angle.

No, species longevity has little impact on that.

It's logical not to cause trouble but not to be generous.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

If generosity is ingrained in a culture as a primary virtue, it makes sense. Like the Native Americans making sure everybody ate, had blankets, etc.

It becomes illogical in our culture because there's a good chance the person you gave the cake to will think "OBOY I GOT A LIVE ONE" and try to bleed you dry, or at least not try to reciporocate somehow.

This points up something illogical about the culture itself, IMHO.

[Cain]

In formal logic, the only thing that's illogical is a contradiction, something that does not follow from the premises given.

Unless you go into high end logic, where things get as weird as it does in high level physics and mathematics.  I recommend not attempting to try and understand that stuff.

[Doktor Howl]

Depends on perspective. Advancement and protection of the self and one's progeny is is logical from a biological standpoint. Anything that lessens your advantages or resources (like baking someone a cake) is illogical from that angle.

No, species longevity has little impact on that.

It's logical not to cause trouble but not to be generous.

Balls.  Altruism is a survival trait.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Depends on perspective. Advancement and protection of the self and one's progeny is is logical from a biological standpoint. Anything that lessens your advantages or resources (like baking someone a cake) is illogical from that angle.

No, species longevity has little impact on that.

It's logical not to cause trouble but not to be generous.

Balls.  Altruism is a survival trait.

I think so. Even if you sacrifice your life for somebody else, that might be the species talking. Running into a burning building to save kids, that kind of thing.

[Doktor Howl]

Depends on perspective. Advancement and protection of the self and one's progeny is is logical from a biological standpoint. Anything that lessens your advantages or resources (like baking someone a cake) is illogical from that angle.

No, species longevity has little impact on that.

It's logical not to cause trouble but not to be generous.

Balls.  Altruism is a survival trait.

I think so. Even if you sacrifice your life for somebody else, that might be the species talking. Running into a burning building to save kids, that kind of thing.

It's not just that.  For reasons that should be obvious, societies that support the weakest members thrive.  Societies that rely on selfishness invariably fail.

And a failed tribe is a dead tribe.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Depends on perspective. Advancement and protection of the self and one's progeny is is logical from a biological standpoint. Anything that lessens your advantages or resources (like baking someone a cake) is illogical from that angle.

No, species longevity has little impact on that.

It's logical not to cause trouble but not to be generous.

Balls.  Altruism is a survival trait.

I think so. Even if you sacrifice your life for somebody else, that might be the species talking. Running into a burning building to save kids, that kind of thing.

It's not just that.  For reasons that should be obvious, societies that support the weakest members thrive.  Societies that rely on selfishness invariably fail.

America: circling closer and closer to the drain.

[Doktor Howl]

Depends on perspective. Advancement and protection of the self and one's progeny is is logical from a biological standpoint. Anything that lessens your advantages or resources (like baking someone a cake) is illogical from that angle.

No, species longevity has little impact on that.

It's logical not to cause trouble but not to be generous.

Balls.  Altruism is a survival trait.

I think so. Even if you sacrifice your life for somebody else, that might be the species talking. Running into a burning building to save kids, that kind of thing.

It's not just that.  For reasons that should be obvious, societies that support the weakest members thrive.  Societies that rely on selfishness invariably fail.

America: circling closer and closer to the drain.

Yep.  There's no coincidence in the fact that we were at our strongest, economically and socially, when our social safety net functioned properly.

[Kai]

Depends on perspective. Advancement and protection of the self and one's progeny is is logical from a biological standpoint. Anything that lessens your advantages or resources (like baking someone a cake) is illogical from that angle.

No, species longevity has little impact on that.

It's logical not to cause trouble but not to be generous.

Balls.  Altruism is a survival trait.

I think so. Even if you sacrifice your life for somebody else, that might be the species talking. Running into a burning building to save kids, that kind of thing.

It's not just that.  For reasons that should be obvious, societies that support the weakest members thrive.  Societies that rely on selfishness invariably fail.

And a failed tribe is a dead tribe.

It's evolutionarily stable strategies, all the way down.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

We're getting more and more to a point in society where nobody cares and unless you can give a logical reason why they should, there's no point in them showing you any mercy or kindness.

I dunno... I find a lot of human kindness here.

[Don Coyote]

We're getting more and more to a point in society where nobody cares and unless you can give a logical reason why they should, there's no point in them showing you any mercy or kindness.

I dunno... I find a lot of human kindness here.

It's been my experience that people will do kind things without really thinking about it, but if asked why will fabricate a logical justification.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

There's logic in giving a shit about people, whether anybody sees it or not. We're pack animals, we need the others. It's just that society tends to push the idea that we all need to be self-sufficient, look out for number one, fuck the others, the poor LIKE living like that, etc. etc. ad nauseum.

You hear things like "according to logic, bumblebees can't fly" (but they finally found the logic of how that's done) and "If the world ran on logic, all the men would ride sidesaddle" (any guy who gets on a horse can figure out how to sit so his nuts don't get pulverized).

A lot of Buddhism is logical as fuck and it still emphasizes compassion.

I just don't think all logic is necessarily cold. Even Spock knew not to treat people like crap.

Logic that takes reality into account is often called "science". Logic that is based on idealism is often called "fascism".

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Depends on perspective. Advancement and protection of the self and one's progeny is is logical from a biological standpoint. Anything that lessens your advantages or resources (like baking someone a cake) is illogical from that angle.

No, species longevity has little impact on that.

It's logical not to cause trouble but not to be generous.

Balls.  Altruism is a survival trait.

I think so. Even if you sacrifice your life for somebody else, that might be the species talking. Running into a burning building to save kids, that kind of thing.

It's not just that.  For reasons that should be obvious, societies that support the weakest members thrive.  Societies that rely on selfishness invariably fail.

And a failed tribe is a dead tribe.

Yep yep yep yep!!!

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Depends on perspective. Advancement and protection of the self and one's progeny is is logical from a biological standpoint. Anything that lessens your advantages or resources (like baking someone a cake) is illogical from that angle.

No, species longevity has little impact on that.

It's logical not to cause trouble but not to be generous.

Balls.  Altruism is a survival trait.

I think so. Even if you sacrifice your life for somebody else, that might be the species talking. Running into a burning building to save kids, that kind of thing.

It's not just that.  For reasons that should be obvious, societies that support the weakest members thrive.  Societies that rely on selfishness invariably fail.

And a failed tribe is a dead tribe.

It's evolutionarily stable strategies, all the way down.

For real mittens. Damn.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

We're getting more and more to a point in society where nobody cares and unless you can give a logical reason why they should, there's no point in them showing you any mercy or kindness.

I dunno... I find a lot of human kindness here.

It's been my experience that people will do kind things without really thinking about it, but if asked why will fabricate a logical justification.

Really?

Like what?