Is karma real? (Short answer: HAHAHA not for you, you stupid hippy.)

[Lies]

I used to believe in Karma til I had a better look at the world and realized that good people can be punished for nothing, and bad people can flourish despite punishing all the good people for selfish and material reasons.

Now I Believe karma is what bad people convince good people exist so good people won't have an excuse to punch bad people whenever they get screwed over by them.

It's quite ingenious really. ...

So in answer to the question: Karma is a nice little fairytale for those who have been screwed so they have a reason to wake up instead of killing themselves if they knew the futile truth of reality or are just too big a hippy pussy to actually help push Karma in the right direction.

TL;DR

Karma exists, but only for those who choose to retaliate against injustice and inhumanity instead of running away and hoping a random and chaotic universe that doesn't give a fuck about hippies will do something to avenge the perceived wrongs against said hippies.

[Cramulus]

I always thought that the idea of Karma was that it's pretty much irrelevant until you die
and then your Karma is relevant in selecting what form you will be reborn as.

But people these days seem to envision Karma as some kind of cosmic operant-conditioning system,
as if the universe channels good energy your way for each bit you send out.

One of my best friends lives at the deep end of the pool. He practices this bullsiht he calls "Karma Hacking" ---
   --- in which he intentionally endures miserable situations because he believes it will pay off some day.

Consequently, he equates suffering and sacrifice with some kind of nobility.
Consequently, he is a miserable pessimist.


I like the idea of karma in so far as I believe that what you do has consequences. Karma suggests that our actions and their consequences are relevant in cosmic terms, in a larger scale than just the bullshit right in front of our faces.

It doesn't mean that if you screw people, something shitty is coming your way.

The way I see it,
it sort of means that if you screw people, the universe is a little more screwed thanks to you. Ass hole.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

http://www.deepleafproductions.com/wilsonlibrary/texts/raw-karma.html

Karma, in the original Buddhist scriptures, is a blind machine; in fact, it is functionally identical with the scientific concept of natural law. Sentimental ethical ideas about justice being built into the machine, so that those who do evil in one life are punished for it in another life, were added later by theologians reasoning from their own moralistic prejudices. Buddha simply indicated that all the cruelties and injustices of the past are still active: their effects are always being felt. Similarly, he explained, all the good of the past, all the kindness and patience and love of decent people is also still being felt.
Since most humans are still controlled by fairly robotic reflexes, the bad energy of the past far outweighs the good, and the tendency of the wheel is to keep moving in the same terrible direction, violence breeding more violence, hatred breeding more hatred, war breeding more war. The only way to "stop the wheel" is to stop it inside yourself, by giving up bad energy and concentrating on the positive. This is by no means easy, but once you understand what Gurdjieff called "the horror of our situation," you have no choice but to try, and to keep on trying.

I always liked that view

[Lies]

http://www.deepleafproductions.com/wilsonlibrary/texts/raw-karma.html

Karma, in the original Buddhist scriptures, is a blind machine; in fact, it is functionally identical with the scientific concept of natural law. Sentimental ethical ideas about justice being built into the machine, so that those who do evil in one life are punished for it in another life, were added later by theologians reasoning from their own moralistic prejudices. Buddha simply indicated that all the cruelties and injustices of the past are still active: their effects are always being felt. Similarly, he explained, all the good of the past, all the kindness and patience and love of decent people is also still being felt.
Since most humans are still controlled by fairly robotic reflexes, the bad energy of the past far outweighs the good, and the tendency of the wheel is to keep moving in the same terrible direction, violence breeding more violence, hatred breeding more hatred, war breeding more war. The only way to "stop the wheel" is to stop it inside yourself, by giving up bad energy and concentrating on the positive. This is by no means easy, but once you understand what Gurdjieff called "the horror of our situation," you have no choice but to try, and to keep on trying.

I always liked that view

It's a novel and interesting view, but can't we just destroy the "wheel" at it's source and save a lot of people a lot of future trouble?
You know, channel bad energy into usefulness by using it for good?

Like, for example, if someone raped a child, stabbing the rapist in the face and a couple of times in the crotch and then dumping them in the middle of the desert with a water bottle? (You know, in buddha's infinite mercy and all?)

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

http://www.deepleafproductions.com/wilsonlibrary/texts/raw-karma.html

Karma, in the original Buddhist scriptures, is a blind machine; in fact, it is functionally identical with the scientific concept of natural law. Sentimental ethical ideas about justice being built into the machine, so that those who do evil in one life are punished for it in another life, were added later by theologians reasoning from their own moralistic prejudices. Buddha simply indicated that all the cruelties and injustices of the past are still active: their effects are always being felt. Similarly, he explained, all the good of the past, all the kindness and patience and love of decent people is also still being felt.
Since most humans are still controlled by fairly robotic reflexes, the bad energy of the past far outweighs the good, and the tendency of the wheel is to keep moving in the same terrible direction, violence breeding more violence, hatred breeding more hatred, war breeding more war. The only way to "stop the wheel" is to stop it inside yourself, by giving up bad energy and concentrating on the positive. This is by no means easy, but once you understand what Gurdjieff called "the horror of our situation," you have no choice but to try, and to keep on trying.

I always liked that view

It's a novel and interesting view, but can't we just destroy the "wheel" at it's source and save a lot of people a lot of future trouble?
You know, channel bad energy into usefulness by using it for good?

Like, for example, if someone raped a child, stabbing the rapist in the face and a couple of times in the crotch and then dumping them in the middle of the desert with a water bottle? (You know, in buddha's infinite mercy and all?)

I have no problem with that. 

[P3nT4gR4m]

Good and bad karma has nothing to do with Buddhism and everything to do with bad interpretation of eastern philosophy, applied through a lense of westernised Christian morality.

Karma states that if you drop a pebble in a pool there will be ripples. Western bastardised retard-karma states that the ripples will only touch the sides of the pool which deserve it.

[Lies]

Once I met the Buddha on the road, and he told me people who spread bad energy will suffer upon others the ripples of Karma, so I stabbed him in the leg and stole his clothes and said "SUFFER".

[Cramulus]

You know, channel bad energy into usefulness by using it for good?

Like, for example, if someone raped a child, stabbing the rapist in the face and a couple of times in the crotch and then dumping them in the middle of the desert with a water bottle? (You know, in buddha's infinite mercy and all?)

if I understand it properly, this doesn't use the energy for good, this just sends the bad energy out further

the rapists parents, children, a lifetime of acquaintances, who did nothing wrong, now suffer a loss

and they will, in turn, go hurt others



I'm reminded of RAW's description of Karma in --Cosmic Trigger, I think?

he had a section about how his young daughter got her ass kicked really hard by some black thugs

they were still carrying around the injustice done to their ancestors, still paying back the white man all that bad karma


and RAW's daughter, innocent little girl, forgave them. She bore them no ill will. She refused to become afraid of black people, refused to retract and hide, because of this one injustice. She stopped the wheel- by not seeking revenge, by not embracing fear, she halted the cascade of harm being paid back and forth into the future

[Lies]

I always thought that the idea of Karma was that it's pretty much irrelevant until you die
and then your Karma is relevant in selecting what form you will be reborn as.

But people these days seem to envision Karma as some kind of cosmic operant-conditioning system,
as if the universe channels good energy your way for each bit you send out.

One of my best friends lives at the deep end of the pool. He practices this bullsiht he calls "Karma Hacking" ---
   --- in which he intentionally endures miserable situations because he believes it will pay off some day.

Consequently, he equates suffering and sacrifice with some kind of nobility.
Consequently, he is a miserable pessimist.


I like the idea of karma in so far as I believe that what you do has consequences. Karma suggests that our actions and their consequences are relevant in cosmic terms, in a larger scale than just the bullshit right in front of our faces.

It doesn't mean that if you screw people, something shitty is coming your way.

The way I see it,
it sort of means that if you screw people, the universe is a little more screwed thanks to you. Ass hole.

Actually, Karma hacking brings to a mind a similar but completely different (and a lot better) concept I read about and participate in: "The Karma Club".

Basically, at least once a week, participate in some random act of kindness... and that's it. (ok, looking it up online now, apparently on http://www.karmaclub.org/ you can get a free "Karma" coin for passing on whenever you do this, it's a bonus but pretty much unnecessary)

I remember the first day I decided to do this... I picked a bunch of flowers from my garden, went on public transport and gave flowers to a couple of selected pretty much at random ladies...

One of the ladies looked at me and went "Oh, I have a boyfriend." and I looked at her and replied "I don't care, that's great! Give him the flower then! This is a no strings attached gift, enjoy it, and if you want, in the near future, do something similar!" and she took the flower and smiled at me and told me I just made her day, as she blushed wildly and looked at me with what I'm sure were lust filled eyes.

There's no drug I've taken yet that can beat the rush you get for doing a random act of kindness... (But of course, being on drugs can *enhance* the experience anyway )

[Cramulus]

  that is exactly why I identify with the creative trip and not the destructive trip

[Lies]

You know, channel bad energy into usefulness by using it for good?

Like, for example, if someone raped a child, stabbing the rapist in the face and a couple of times in the crotch and then dumping them in the middle of the desert with a water bottle? (You know, in buddha's infinite mercy and all?)

if I understand it properly, this doesn't use the energy for good, this just sends the bad energy out further

the rapists parents, children, a lifetime of acquaintances, who did nothing wrong, now suffer a loss

and they will, in turn, go hurt others



I'm reminded of RAW's description of Karma in --Cosmic Trigger, I think?

he had a section about how his young daughter got her ass kicked really hard by some black thugs

they were still carrying around the injustice done to their ancestors, still paying back the white man all that bad karma


and RAW's daughter, innocent little girl, forgave them. She bore them no ill will. She refused to become afraid of black people, refused to retract and hide, because of this one injustice. She stopped the wheel- by not seeking revenge, by not embracing fear, she halted the cascade of harm being paid back and forth into the future

Sure, it's easy enough to forgive a group of former slaves who are still a bit pissy about havin been used and abused by white society, not to mention, they picked on a *girl* so it's not like the option of fighting back was *really* there, but someones just raped and abused someone you love and care about, and the rapist does this on a few more people for good measure.

Let's see you *forgive* this rapist and ignore him after he's mentally and physically destroyed your spouse/mother/sister.

[Cramulus]

that's what RAW wrote about. He was about to become really hardened to this world because of the terrible experience his daughter had.

And instead, he was astonished by his daughter's ability to forgive -- despite the enormous injustice that was transferred onto her.

That's what he meant by "stopping the karma wheel". When you've been destroyed, it's really really difficult to not rekindle that destruction and pass it on to everybody else. But if we want to live in a better world, (and I know, not everybody does) we have to transcend those basic revenge impulses because they will keep getting bounced back between one another forever.

[Zyzyx]

Karma just seems like something that helps one deal with the seemingly random crap the universe keeps throwing our way, a quasi-mystic package wrapped around the Golden Rule or whatever you want to call it. If we go by our own BS, we are mere schmucks, but schmucks that can make positive decisions.

You know, channel bad energy into usefulness by using it for good?

Like, for example, if someone raped a child, stabbing the rapist in the face and a couple of times in the crotch and then dumping them in the middle of the desert with a water bottle? (You know, in buddha's infinite mercy and all?)

if I understand it properly, this doesn't use the energy for good, this just sends the bad energy out further

the rapists parents, children, a lifetime of acquaintances, who did nothing wrong, now suffer a loss

and they will, in turn, go hurt others



I'm reminded of RAW's description of Karma in --Cosmic Trigger, I think?

he had a section about how his young daughter got her ass kicked really hard by some black thugs

they were still carrying around the injustice done to their ancestors, still paying back the white man all that bad karma


and RAW's daughter, innocent little girl, forgave them. She bore them no ill will. She refused to become afraid of black people, refused to retract and hide, because of this one injustice. She stopped the wheel- by not seeking revenge, by not embracing fear, she halted the cascade of harm being paid back and forth into the future

Sure, it's easy enough to forgive a group of former slaves who are still a bit pissy about havin been used and abused by white society, not to mention, they picked on a *girl* so it's not like the option of fighting back was *really* there, but someones just raped and abused someone you love and care about, and the rapist does this on a few more people for good measure.

Let's see you *forgive* this rapist and ignore him after he's mentally and physically destroyed your spouse/mother/sister.

The Oristeia of Aechylus is a classic example of this - the Furies are the personification of these cycles of vengeance, and regardless of the intention they just keep going on and on with the cycle of blood and death. Some certainly deserved it more than others but the same destructive influence pervades it all. It's a third party that winds up stopping the cycle, but it would have easily continued were it not for that. EDIT: What I mean to say is that after a while any reason for vengeance becomes invalid after going far enough down the line with the negativity - innocent people end up crushed down the line by our own negativity, so the sooner we stop it the better it is for everyone.

[Rumckle]

One idea I've been thinking a bit about lately is the idea of karma in a psychosomatic sense. If you do good things you feel happy, and when you feel happy people act positively towards you. Or something like that.

[Cramulus]

there's definitely some truth to that

there's one lady in my office who is ALWAYS smiling, ALWAYS helpful, and in turn, ALWAYS having a good day. It's infectious!

There's definitely a law of fives kind of filter in place there, which works like this --


If we go back to our discussions about Shrapnel, the idea is that we are constantly being bombarded by shrapnel, and some of it will become a part of us. And meanwhile, we are constantly blasting out shrapnel with everything we do.

So if I believe in Karma in any sense, it is that you tend to identify / experience / not filter out the kind of shrapnel you send out. If you go around bitter and sour, you will find more bitter and sour shrapnel stuck to you. If you go around being awesome, you will encounter more awesome stuff. I think it's the best argument for optimism.