More Spider Music from the Spider Project

[3D3N]

So you have a copy on multiple formats and different qualities. Bouncing down to 16 isn't to preserve the quality at 24. Actually creating the music in a higher quality allows greater control and precision when writing, even if you have to loose some to make it CD standard. Yes, your audience probably won't hear all the details, but writing off doing it hi quality in the first place is like saying it's not worth perfecting instrumental skill because the audience has no idea what you're doing, not really.

[LMNO]

That's exatly what I'm saying.  You sound like this guy I once engineered for who wanted to record a track of tambourine and mute it for the remaineder of the recording, and mixdown, because he'd know it was there.

There is no reason other than assbag wankery to record something no one will ever hear.  I suppose you also care about sounds below the noise floor too, don't you?

[Phox]

Umm. There's also the fact that the vocals are recorded by people who may or may not know what they are doing. Just putting that out there.

[3D3N]

No, I wasn't talking in terms of such extremes like leaving in muted channels (waste of memory) or floor vibrations, I was meaning more the shit actually coming out of the speaker, the stuff people DO hear and the stuff you can hear when you're playing/writing. If you're not able to hear as many frequencies as possible, you have less room for creativity. It's the thousands of tiny changes that make the difference, (take for instance how small the changes are when you sidechain) and they DO have an audiable impact on the final thing. And not all of your audience are going to be ignorant to music, after all, and even those who are can still tell if a track "sounds right" or not. I also didn't know if you were going for the lo-fi sound intentionally.

And yeah, I get that the vocalists may not know what they're doing but that's what criticism is for, right? All I was asking for in that regard was more AUDIBLE passion - more emotion, doesn't have to be overwhelming or dramatic, even the subtle changes make the difference... a sharp spit of emphasis on particular words maybe, or a gradual build of energy put into the words. The words are great but I'm not immersed when I'm listening, Im not sure the vocalists are -really feeling- what they're saying at the time.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I like this idea, and the dark trip-hop sound suits it, although I do have a few issues.

Of course you do.  You always do.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Yes, your audience probably won't hear all the details, but writing off doing it hi quality in the first place is like saying it's not worth perfecting instrumental skill because the audience has no idea what you're doing, not really.

Fucking gasbag.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Another new track... TGRR with the "It's hard to know when the Spiders came and made everything real" rant.

http://www.reverbnation.com/artist/artist_songs/614898

Rant 8.

Free for streaming and download.

I was still talking too fast.

Amusingly, I actually slowed your track down to 87% of it's original speed.

If I didn't know better, I'd advise to lay off the biker speed.

Interesting thing is, I don't do that in person or while ranting improv for youtube stuff.

TGRR,
Doesn't deal with scripts well.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

The words are great but I'm not immersed when I'm listening, Im not sure the vocalists are -really feeling- what they're saying at the time.

WHAT'S MY MOTIVATION?   UNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG!

If you'd read or listened to the material, you'd know we weren't intending on doing cartwheels.

[LMNO]

No, I wasn't talking in terms of such extremes like leaving in muted channels (waste of memory) or floor vibrations, I was meaning more the shit actually coming out of the speaker, the stuff people DO hear and the stuff you can hear when you're playing/writing. If you're not able to hear as many frequencies as possible, you have less room for creativity. It's the thousands of tiny changes that make the difference, (take for instance how small the changes are when you sidechain) and they DO have an audiable impact on the final thing. And not all of your audience are going to be ignorant to music, after all, and even those who are can still tell if a track "sounds right" or not. I also didn't know if you were going for the lo-fi sound intentionally.

And yeah, I get that the vocalists may not know what they're doing but that's what criticism is for, right? All I was asking for in that regard was more AUDIBLE passion - more emotion, doesn't have to be overwhelming or dramatic, even the subtle changes make the difference... a sharp spit of emphasis on particular words maybe, or a gradual build of energy put into the words. The words are great but I'm not immersed when I'm listening, Im not sure the vocalists are -really feeling- what they're saying at the time.

Ok, I'll tell you what: this is one of my rants.

I don't know, maybe I'm wrong.  Maybe the spiders are trying to help me.  I mean, they know things.  They know what will make me attractive, they know what will make me popular.  They know what I should be listening to.  And for a small fee, they can all be mine.  They have ideas, too; so all I have to do is repeat their ideas, and then I'll have ideas.  And they're always right -- the proof is right there on TV.  See?  All the pundits are saying the same thing.  Just like the spiders whispered into my ear.  

The spiders say that it's a good thing to spend 60 hours a week grinding your soul to a nub just so you can almost afford a mortgage -- because then you're safe.  Plus, the pills they give you fill up that hollow emptiness in your gut - and if that doesn't do the job, by God a glass of whiskey and some out-of-focus internet pronography will do the trick!  Thanks to the spiders, I don't have to do anything when I get home from work.  I can just sit here, and watch other people pretending to do the things I don't have the time or the motivation to do.  It's right there, on the screen.  Now hush: The new Melrose Place is about to come on, and my Megan Fox downloads are almost complete.

Show me how it's done.

[3D3N]

Ok. I will.

[LMNO]

Incidentally, there are a couple of leitmotivs being used.  The main one is in its rawest state on rant 2 (track 3), "...And those pills.  Fuck.  They're everywhere."

In case you wanted to be thematic.

[Shub-Crackerath]

However, recording at 24 bit and then reducing to 16 bit is really fucking stupid.  Why record with a 144dB dynamic range and then crush it down to 96dB?  It's like completing an oil painting and then taking a black-and-white picture of it.

You don't "keep" the subtleties of 24 bit recording when you bounce down to 16; and unless you're releasing it as a DVD, you're never going to hear it, because no other commercial format supports it.

This is contrary to everything i have learned, in personal research, practice and at college doing a music tech diploma.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep10/articles/qa0910-1.htm

For the record:

A sensible headroom margin is essential when tracking, to avoid the risk of clipping and allow you to concentrate on capturing a great performance without panicking about the risk of 'overs'. A similar margin is also required when mixing, to avoid overloading the mix bus and plug-ins (yes, I know floating-point maths is supposed to make that irrelevant, but there are compromises involved that can be easily avoided by maintaining some headroom!).
Once the mix is finished, the now redundant headroom can be removed, and that is a standard part of the mastering process for digital media like CD and MP3[/i]

when you design a digital image (or "picture") you do it at the greatest possible manageable DPI, so that you lose less quality when you reduce its resolution. The same is true of audio. More room for maneuvering is always preferable to the perfectionist, or just someone who is serious about their art.


http://www.homerecordingconnection.com/forum.php?action=view_thread&id=2417&frm=1

Just to oversimplify - if you are recording at 24 bit then you can afford to run the signal far less "hot", and as a result you can bypass the need for a compressor "limiting" the signal to ensure you used all the available bitdepth ('cos 16bit isn't a lot).

Once the signal is in the PC, you can apply software compression to get things more under control.

Now, i don't profess to be an authority on Audio (yet, a degree in acoustics is going to sort that right out though ) but this error seems obvious to an academic audio n00b like myself.........

[The Good Reverend Roger]

This thread is no longer a fun exercise that LMNO is doing for the shit of it.

It is now a thread full of self-appointed fucking gasbags that should all drink drano and fucking die.  Each and every one of you wannabe expert shit-knockers.  Seriously.  Did you think you were going to IMPRESS anyone with your Goddamn bullshit?  Are we to stand in awe of your superior knowledge?  Are you expecting LMNO to redo everything to make YOU happy?

I fucking hate you all.  Die in a burning car wreck.  That is all.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

LMNO, let me know if you want a thread split.  We can have a thread for the know-it-all shitgobblers, and one for your project.

[LMNO]

It's ok.  I'm surprised it lasted this long.  Not gonna stop, though.

Shub, I do have a degree in music production and engineering, and while what you say is true about giving yourself a saftey net as far as dynamic range goes, a competent engineer will get the levels right the first time.  You're not adding anything to the mix, you're simply covering your own ass.  And, much like playing a Rickenbacker through a Big Muff and a Marshall stack, the kind of clarity they're referring to cannot be discerned in the majority of modern music.

And, for 3D3N's, and others' sake, I will endevour to provide a short essay about my philosophy of what The Spider Project "is", from its creation to its completion.