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Testimonial - Well it seems that most of you "discordians" are little more than dupes of the Cathedral/NWO memetic apparatus after all -- "freethinkers" in the sense that you are willing to think slightly outside the designated boxes of correct thought, but not free in the sense that you reject the existence of the boxes and seek their destruction.

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Common Walls Debate

Started by Cramulus, February 21, 2012, 03:49:09 PM

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Doktor Howl

Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on February 24, 2012, 04:59:57 AM
Freeky, he didn't say that. At the risk of getting involved, a nuance has developed, and I believe Nigel may have said that her reaction in the relevant incidence may have been over the top.

Please don't take the position that he is dismissing a strong woman's voice. Because I think that he is simply pointing back to TGRRs post in Waiting Room.

Whose?

:judge:
Molon Lube

LMNO

Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 24, 2012, 02:07:01 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on February 24, 2012, 04:59:57 AM
Freeky, he didn't say that. At the risk of getting involved, a nuance has developed, and I believe Nigel may have said that her reaction in the relevant incidence may have been over the top.

Please don't take the position that he is dismissing a strong woman's voice. Because I think that he is simply pointing back to TGRRs post in Waiting Room.

Whose?

:judge:

Some spag who got lost in the desert.

Doktor Howl

Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on February 24, 2012, 02:44:20 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 24, 2012, 02:07:01 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on February 24, 2012, 04:59:57 AM
Freeky, he didn't say that. At the risk of getting involved, a nuance has developed, and I believe Nigel may have said that her reaction in the relevant incidence may have been over the top.

Please don't take the position that he is dismissing a strong woman's voice. Because I think that he is simply pointing back to TGRRs post in Waiting Room.

Whose?

:judge:

Some spag who got lost in the desert.

He was a romantic, off looking for some doomed hero.

But there is no room in the New Century for romantics.  On the other hand, he took Knuckles with him, so he probably made it a good distance before being run down like a dog.
Molon Lube

LMNO


Doktor Howl

Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on February 24, 2012, 03:02:06 PM
Javelina bait, basically.

If the body thieves didn't get him first.  There you are, sheltering from the heat under your dead vehicle, and suddenly & out of nowhere, cracked leather boots appear on all sides of the vehicke around you, and then faces wearing unfriendly grins look under, at you.  And then, well, the scene fades to black, out of kindness and sensitivity to our younger viewers. 
Molon Lube

Doktor Howl

Quote from: Telarus on February 24, 2012, 12:45:38 PM
I'm still disappointed that Intermittens failed to become an income stream for the community.

It still could.

But here's the thing:  Absolutely firm ground rules have to be established, works have to be included by permission, the editor has final say as to what goes in, and the fate of whatever tiny proceeds may occur must be uniform for all issues.  My suggestion is that they go towards board maintenance.  Lastly, it has to be understood that once something is ready for layout, permissions are final and irrevocable.

Though I say "must", these are the suggestions that I'd like to advance.
Molon Lube

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on February 24, 2012, 04:59:57 AM
Freeky, he didn't say that. At the risk of getting involved, a nuance has developed, and I believe Nigel may have said that her reaction in the relevant incidence may have been over the top.

Please don't take the position that he is dismissing a strong woman's voice. Because I think that he is simply pointing back to TGRRs post in Waiting Room.

Nope. Cram denied ever saying that he was planning on selling intermittens for profit, and I said that if I was mistaken I owed him a huge apology, because that is not a small accusation. But then I found the thread in which he said it, so there is no need for me to back off.

Placid Dingo, for a reminder of how the conversation actually went, reread the first two pages of this thread. My exact words:

Quote from: Nigel on February 21, 2012, 05:34:07 PM
Yes, it's a collaborative board project, and no, you may not take it over.

Given the stunningly recent misappropriation of Cain's poem, combined with not-so-distant past actions, I may have been a little blunt, but certainly not, in my opinion, "over the top". I don't think it was an illegitimate concern that Cram might decide to take over publication or start posting pieces of it on 23ae. He said "Excuse me", I said "you're excused" and then my next post was:

QuoteLady Gogira, if you want to do anything with Common Walls, you will need to (out of common courtesy) talk to LMNO, as he started the thread and is the de facto project editor, as well as gaining consent from the individual contributors. I doubt that anyone would have a problem with you doing something with it, but that'll avoid any ruffled feathers.

A whole bunch of other people, many of whom are not involved with the project, inserted themselves, some reasonably, others less so, but I don't really think it's appropriate or correct to try to tar me with the "over the top" brush when I've been very careful to calmly state my concerns and the reasons for them.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


LMNO

Apologies for the misuse of language on my part.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 24, 2012, 03:41:41 PM
Quote from: Telarus on February 24, 2012, 12:45:38 PM
I'm still disappointed that Intermittens failed to become an income stream for the community.

It still could.

But here's the thing:  Absolutely firm ground rules have to be established, works have to be included by permission, the editor has final say as to what goes in, and the fate of whatever tiny proceeds may occur must be uniform for all issues.  My suggestion is that they go towards board maintenance.  Lastly, it has to be understood that once something is ready for layout, permissions are final and irrevocable.

Though I say "must", these are the suggestions that I'd like to advance.

There was no reason it can't, if someone is willing to do the work necessary, in advance, to ethically (and legally) do so.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Doktor Howl

In fact, a proposal for ground rules:

1.  All works must have the permission of the author...This is given by each author posting in an accumulation thread.  No person other than the author of an article may post that article in the accumulation thread, under any circumstances (you cannot volunteer someone else's work).  The authors understand that the work may be sold in hardcopy, pdf, nook, kindle, whichever.  The layout date is announced once established, and once that date hits, the author may not retract permission.  Retraction of permission must occur in the accumulation thread.  If any member of the board is banned for some reason between granting permission and the accumulation date, the permission is automatically considered to be revoked.  Flouncing does not, in itself, revoke permission.

2.  The editor determines which work goes into the issue.

3.  The editor - or anyone else publishing/selling it - must donate all revenue above cost to the maintenance of PD.

4.  All work is used by permission.  The author maintains all rights to the material for any purpose other than its inclusion in the issue (ie, it's in the issue by permission, the editor - or anyone else - does not gain any further rights to the material).

5.  All authors are entitled to one copy (or PDF?) of the issue, should they so desire.  Shipping costs, if any, are the responsibility of the author, not the editor.

6.  The author assumes responsibility for copyright violation issues, should plagiarized work be turned in.  As far as I know, this has never happened, but the editor has no reasonable way to know, and the author does.

7.  If the issue is sold for profit, no person, not even the editor, may post the intermittens issue on the internet in its complete form (fair use/blurbs excepted) for two years after the issue is released, except by the agreement of the editor, all authors, and anyone else involved layout, etc).  After two years, it may be posted in its entirety (only), by any contributing member.

8.  Once chosen, the editor may not be changed without that editor's permission, unless that editor is gone or out of contact with PD, for more than 90 days.  Once a new/replacement editor has been chosen, a new accumulation date must be set.

9.  These rules (or the final form of them, as decided by everybody), will be posted in the OP of the accumulation thread, so there's no misunderstandings.

10.  Should, by some dint of the Free Market™, an intermittens issue somehow sell some ungodly number of issues, there will be no restructuring of revenue.  We'll just have Faust buy Ireland and use it as a server room.

Suggestions, criticisms?
Molon Lube

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

I think that all sounds completely reasonable.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Doktor Howl

Quote from: Nigel on February 24, 2012, 04:04:24 PM
I think that all sounds completely reasonable.

Sure.  And if the issue is simply going to be given away as free fliers, PDFs, etc, that would be noted as well, and wouldn't affect any other rules.
Molon Lube

AFK

I think there should be a caveat to #3 in the instance that an editor is publishing a volume that is solely composed of their own work posted on PD.  In that case, IMO, they should do whatever they see fit with the profits.  But as soon as you include any work other than your own, the profits could go to PD.

Another caveat, IMO, that should be discussed is if a cohort of PDers, ALL, decide they want to share/split profits.  So if you have 5 spags putting something together that contains only work written by those 5 spags, I think it would be reasonable for them to keep and split those profits by whatever agreement they come up with.  But same as above, if you use a work by anyone other than those 5 spags, or if one spag doesn't agree, then the profits should go to PD.  Or they just should avoid selling them alltogether. 
Cynicism is a blank check for failure.

Doktor Howl

Quote from: What's-His-Name? on February 24, 2012, 04:14:41 PM
I think there should be a caveat to #3 in the instance that an editor is publishing a volume that is solely composed of their own work posted on PD.  In that case, IMO, they should do whatever they see fit with the profits.  But as soon as you include any work other than your own, the profits could go to PD.

Another caveat, IMO, that should be discussed is if a cohort of PDers, ALL, decide they want to share/split profits.  So if you have 5 spags putting something together that contains only work written by those 5 spags, I think it would be reasonable for them to keep and split those profits by whatever agreement they come up with.  But same as above, if you use a work by anyone other than those 5 spags, or if one spag doesn't agree, then the profits should go to PD.  Or they just should avoid selling them alltogether.

Oh, absolutely.  I was referring to Intermittens Issues.  Anyone that wants to use their own work can write any book they like, and any temporary cabal can do the same.

But we should keep it out of Intermittens, as that sort of arrangement almost always goes sour. 

From experience, you have no friends in publishing.  They may be your friends, and you may publish together, but while doing so, there is no "friend".
Molon Lube