CRAMULUS

[Requia ☣]

The word "white", as I have already explained a few times, is just a hotbutton

Then why use it, if it's not the actual point?  Why not just say "middle class"?

I'm not trying to start anything, it's an honest question.

I'm playing with it.

I've been told that I am "culturally white", which pissed me off, because what the hell does that even mean? But I decided I'd run with it a little, and what I've found is that it seriously upsets the fuck out of white people. I find that fascinating, and well worth exploring.

I am "culturally Roger".

ETA:  I think "culturally White" means that you aren't behaving as people expect you to behave.  They don't have a convenient label, so they just pasted that one on and hoped it would stick.

I always thought it meant you were part of the standard mainstream culture, grew up in a suburb surrounded by white people etc.

Of course, this is pretty much the opposite of Nigel 

What, exactly, makes growing up in a suburb "white"?

What makes mainstream culture "white" by default?

I didn't make the language, I just monkey the way other people use it.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

The word "white", as I have already explained a few times, is just a hotbutton

Then why use it, if it's not the actual point?  Why not just say "middle class"?

I'm not trying to start anything, it's an honest question.

I'm playing with it.

I've been told that I am "culturally white", which pissed me off, because what the hell does that even mean? But I decided I'd run with it a little, and what I've found is that it seriously upsets the fuck out of white people. I find that fascinating, and well worth exploring.

I am "culturally Roger".

ETA:  I think "culturally White" means that you aren't behaving as people expect you to behave.  They don't have a convenient label, so they just pasted that one on and hoped it would stick.

I always thought it meant you were part of the standard mainstream culture, grew up in a suburb surrounded by white people etc.

Of course, this is pretty much the opposite of Nigel  

What, exactly, makes growing up in a suburb "white"?

What makes mainstream culture "white" by default?

Nothing really, other than assumptions of demographics. Suburban is somewhat of a subjective term too. Revere is a suburb of Boston but doesn't strike me as particularly "suburban."

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I'm generally of the opinion that racism is learned from parents first, reinforced in childhood by being with other children who've learned the same shit, and either unlearned in early adulthood, or otherwise carried through life like a virus, ready to infect their children as well.

Balls.  My parents were/are the classic aging lefties, and my sister is a racist shitneck.

Is it any different than the anti-italianism of the late 1800's/ early 1900's?  And was that, in your opinion, driven by the same thinking?

No different.  Same with the anti-Irish thing of the same period.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

I'm generally of the opinion that racism is learned from parents first, reinforced in childhood by being with other children who've learned the same shit, and either unlearned in early adulthood, or otherwise carried through life like a virus, ready to infect their children as well.

Balls.  My parents were/are the classic aging lefties, and my sister is a racist shitneck.

Is it any different than the anti-italianism of the late 1800's/ early 1900's?  And was that, in your opinion, driven by the same thinking?

No different.  Same with the anti-Irish thing of the same period.

It's easier for the upper-class to tell the middle and working classes that [insert recent immigrant population] are taking our jobs than creating new jobs in the first place. Cuz that would mean they'd have to pay more people for working for them. And the middle and working classes buy into it, while the upper class sits back with a cognac and a cubano.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I'm generally of the opinion that racism is learned from parents first, reinforced in childhood by being with other children who've learned the same shit, and either unlearned in early adulthood, or otherwise carried through life like a virus, ready to infect their children as well.

Balls.  My parents were/are the classic aging lefties, and my sister is a racist shitneck.

Is it any different than the anti-italianism of the late 1800's/ early 1900's?  And was that, in your opinion, driven by the same thinking?

No different.  Same with the anti-Irish thing of the same period.

It's easier for the upper-class to talk the middle and working classes that [insert recent immigrant population] are taking our jobs than creating new jobs in the first place. Cuz that would mean they'd have to pay more people for working for them. And the middle and working classes buy into it, while the upper class sits back with a cognac and a cubano.

This.  And it makes no difference that the upper class may even believe it themselves, to one degree or another.  Mostly they seem to just view everyone else as a big magic puddle of shit that makes things for them.  Great to have, but not something you want to actually talk to.

As evidence, I present "Dead Peasants Insurance", where corporations take out life insurance policies on employees, with the corporation being the beneficiary.  So you work for a company for a few years, then 20 years later you die, and they make mad bank, far and above what they paid for your services.

[hooplala]

Shit. Is that legal? 

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Shit. Is that legal? 

Yes.  However, in some states, surviving family can and have sued for the proceeds or at least a portion thereof.

In Arizona, of course, you can't even do that.

[East Coast Hustle]

The word "white", as I have already explained a few times, is just a hotbutton

Then why use it, if it's not the actual point?  Why not just say "middle class"?

I'm not trying to start anything, it's an honest question.

Because "white" is technically accurate...not our fault if it makes people uncomfortable.

How so?  How are middle class black people exempt?

I'm not trying to say that I don't think white people have had it good for a long time, but I take issue with the attempt to make me feel guilty over an issue I have no control over, and feel I haven't contributed to.  So yes, the accusation (if that is a fair word to use) makes me uncomfortable.  I suppose this is something I will need to put a lot more thought into.

I think your interpretation of it being an "accusation" or "attempt to make you feel guilty" are stemming from your own personal issues. I'm pretty sure nobody that has espoused the "PD theory of general socioeconomic relativity" is accusing you of anything.

It IS awfully funny, though, how many white people get all puckery and pedantic as soon as you call them "white".

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Back on the original threadjack:

Talking about who is really or culturally which race is offensive as hell, and stupid on a scale that beggars the imagination.

So of course Nigel is correct.  We should be using this.

[LMNO]

I'd like to thank everyone who posted in this thread.  I am not as uncomfortable with the original topic as beforehand, though I am still uncomfortable when confronted with my obvious privilege I was born with by genetic lottery.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I'd like to thank everyone who posted in this thread.  I am not as uncomfortable with the original topic as beforehand, though I am still uncomfortable when confronted with my obvious privilege I was born with by genetic lottery.

As your spiritual advisor, take it from me that being lucky isn't actually a felony.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Also, whatever ethnicity you are, you had to roll a natural 20 to be born in the gigantic bubble-wrap playhouse we call "America".

Chances for living in Europe are about the same.

And I don't think there's anyone here who could - with a straight face - deny that those 10% have it easier than anyone else on the planet.

[Captain Utopia]

Does benefiting from that privilege mean we have an obligation to do something about it?

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Does benefiting from that privilege mean we have an obligation to do something about it?

Do what about it?  Toss it away and live in sackcloth and ashes?

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Does benefiting from that privilege mean we have an obligation to do something about it?

Obliged? No. Good thing to do? Sure. But that also comes down to what "do something about it" entails.