FACT: Your children's toys are training them...

[Ambassador KAOS]

I was there. He wasn't. Plain and simple.
You can listen to the media, or read a magazine article, but I saw and was involved first hand. I didn't take away his opinion, i'm saying it's wrong and stupid.

The End

[Jenne]

Yeah, if I could be convinced of such, sure.  But that's not the point.  It's silly to say that you can't criticize or judge something based on the fact you weren't directly involved.  Your point of view may be different, but you can still make judgment calls.

Whether or not people RESPECT or AGREE WITH those views, that's entirely different, of course.

Um, no or whatever.

When I got involved in this conversation it was to clear up two things. First military training teaches you to distance yourself emotionally from your targets to make killing easier, and second that this carries over when we are occupying something.

I was there. He wasn't. Plain and simple.
You can listen to the media, or read a magazine article, but I saw and was involved first hand. I didn't take away his opinion, i'm saying it's wrong and stupid.

So...ok.  You disagree with him because he's 1) wrong and 2) he's wrong because he wasn't there.

Gotcha.

[rygD]

afaik, you cannot really join the army and not allow yourself be brainwashed.

Only the weak would claim this

fuck you rygD

are you unable to have a sensible discussion without calling the other person "weak" in a snide remark without any provocation whatsoever?

My intention was not to make this sound like an attack on you.  It was intended as a comment to those who would make this claim.

As is likely obvious, I am not fond of those who are easily influenced by that outside themselves, and the current state of the U.S. Army is not like the old Army, the one that RAW used as an example for explaining brainwashing, unless you are weak minded.

[B_M_W]

afaik, you cannot really join the army and not allow yourself be brainwashed.

Only the weak would claim this

fuck you rygD

are you unable to have a sensible discussion without calling the other person "weak" in a snide remark without any provocation whatsoever?

My intention was not to make this sound like an attack on you.  It was intended as a comment to those who would make this claim.

As is likely obvious, I am not fond of those who are easily influenced by that outside themselves, and the current state of the U.S. Army is not like the old Army, the one that RAW used as an example for explaining brainwashing, unless you are weak minded.

Yeah, because as well all know you are a perfect example of iron will, intelligence, and ability. 

[rygD]

Been in the army, did that, wouldn't do it again.  Yes I have an honorable discharge and no, it wasn't some bullshit medical leave.  I was a good soldier and earned plenty of shiney's while I was in.  As an independant and free thinker as well as a proffessional artist I can't support Rigid's  rabbid support of the military.  Does it do good things for some people, sure.  Is it good for everyone? certainly not.  I think that if you feel the need to defend it so hard core then that only attests to the brain washing present, pure and simple, and if you can't identify that, well, then perhaps you should reassess what you consider brain washing.  I don't think however, that the military brain washing is a bad thing, it's good for soldiers, and honestly, I'd rather have brain washed killers that view the enemy impersonally that can actually function as citizens once they are released from duty then people who got caught up in things and were never able to live again like so many vietnam vets.  That being said, our military is a successfull system and if you haven't been there you can't possibly understand how it works.  It's like the first time you bang a chick.  you can't know till you go there no matter how many books you read and movies you watch, only more so with this because it's a much more personalized experience than even fucking.  You may argue that having such a well trained military does allow for our president to make much bolder shots that would otherwise be impossible and thus not stood for at all due to terrible losses, like the whole searching for weapons of mass destruction ordeal, but in my opinion, it's better to err on the side of having a superior military and just learn to identify a power hungry dictator before he ever gets into office as a preemptive cure.
...
In any case, I think the point of the thread was to discuss how toys lead children to war.  It's not a new concept, but I think more than toys leading children to war, you need to worry about the parents leading the children to war.  They breed it into their kids like the generations that went before with bigger and shinier special effects than last years line, the toys are just a product and a tool to bring about that end.  Parents that prize intellectualism and peace will feed their children musical instruments and educational devices.  Parents who favor war with low incomes will teach their children how to play soldier and german spotlight, parents with money who favor war may buy their children hunting liscences and in both cases will steer their children away from educational and peaceble devices while the opposite is also true.  Thankfully education has become far cheaper and more accessable thanks to things like the internet.  Some people prefer to prey on the weak, others prefer to reap what they sew.  Neither is right or wrong, but it is generally accepted that it is better to be the bowling ball over the bowling pin, but there will always be a need for both, otherwise there is no way to bowl.  I say educate the kids in all manners, including war.  Let them figure out what they want to do with their lives once they are a legal adult.  If you've done the best you can to keep their options open to them and shown them as many options as you can, then you have done your job, let them figure it out from there.  Some will be soldiers, others will be doctors and lawyers, many will serve fast food.  The End, I hope.

Been in the army, did that, wouldn't do it again.  Yes I have an honorable discharge and no, it wasn't some bullshit medical leave.  I was a good soldier and earned plenty of shiney's while I was in.  As an independant and free thinker as well as a proffessional artist I can't support Rigid's  rabbid support of the military.  Does it do good things for some people, sure.  Is it good for everyone? certainly not.  I think that if you feel the need to defend it so hard core then that only attests to the brain washing present, pure and simple, and if you can't identify that, well, then perhaps you should reassess what you consider brain washing.  I don't think however, that the military brain washing is a bad thing, it's good for soldiers, and honestly, I'd rather have brain washed killers that view the enemy impersonally that can actually function as citizens once they are released from duty then people who got caught up in things and were never able to live again like so many vietnam vets.  That being said, our military is a successfull system and if you haven't been there you can't possibly understand how it works.  It's like the first time you bang a chick.  you can't know till you go there no matter how many books you read and movies you watch, only more so with this because it's a much more personalized experience than even fucking.  You may argue that having such a well trained military does allow for our president to make much bolder shots that would otherwise be impossible and thus not stood for at all due to terrible losses, like the whole searching for weapons of mass destruction ordeal, but in my opinion, it's better to err on the side of having a superior military and just learn to identify a power hungry dictator before he ever gets into office as a preemptive cure.
...
In any case, I think the point of the thread was to discuss how toys lead children to war.  It's not a new concept, but I think more than toys leading children to war, you need to worry about the parents leading the children to war.  They breed it into their kids like the generations that went before with bigger and shinier special effects than last years line, the toys are just a product and a tool to bring about that end.  Parents that prize intellectualism and peace will feed their children musical instruments and educational devices.  Parents who favor war with low incomes will teach their children how to play soldier and german spotlight, parents with money who favor war may buy their children hunting liscences and in both cases will steer their children away from educational and peaceble devices while the opposite is also true.  Thankfully education has become far cheaper and more accessable thanks to things like the internet.  Some people prefer to prey on the weak, others prefer to reap what they sew.  Neither is right or wrong, but it is generally accepted that it is better to be the bowling ball over the bowling pin, but there will always be a need for both, otherwise there is no way to bowl.  I say educate the kids in all manners, including war.  Let them figure out what they want to do with their lives once they are a legal adult.  If you've done the best you can to keep their options open to them and shown them as many options as you can, then you have done your job, let them figure it out from there.  Some will be soldiers, others will be doctors and lawyers, many will serve fast food.  The End, I hope.
[/quote]

I don't think the military is for everyone.  I do sometimes feel that all "citizens" of a nation should have to earn that title (I get sick of those who talk shit about the military, but know nothing about it...I also am bothered by those who act like it is something more than it is, due, again, to lack of knowledge.  As you said, these people need to experience it).  My "support" of the military is largely support of it in theory.  I despise the current state of the Army and Air Force, although I am not fond of how it got to where it is, either.  I think too much of the military lifestyle revolves around shit that is outdated.  Most of those involved seem to hate all the ceremony, yet it is still around, and occasionally in excess.  Also, the politics is bullshit.  These are people who work for politicians (I know no one wants to here how I feel about politics in America, so I won't touch that one any more).

As for the cause of war, human nature is to blame for that, and can be seen in almost all mammalian "societies".  I wouldn't blame the parents for children enjoying mock battles and other such behaviour, but feel that it is instinctual to a large degree.

[rygD]

Attention: rygD beats off to military magazines but was never actually in.
Case closed.
Read all the articles you want Fucko, it means dick.
You really are thick as pigshit if you think all your reading and going to lectures is in any way equivalent to actually being there.

Actually, I was and am, asswipe.  If you my dumb ass joke threw you off, sorry for that.  As for the lecture, it was one of those lovely motivational ones prior to my current deployment (with the 82nd).

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Attention: rygD beats off to military magazines but was never actually in.
Case closed.
Read all the articles you want Fucko, it means dick.
You really are thick as pigshit if you think all your reading and going to lectures is in any way equivalent to actually being there.

Actually, I was and am, asswipe.  If you my dumb ass joke threw you off, sorry for that.  As for the lecture, it was one of those lovely motivational ones prior to my current deployment (with the 82nd).

11B?

[rygD]

Ha! Not in this life.  Although in this division doesn't really matter.  PMOS is currently 25N, SMOS 98C.  Used to be a 98J.

[hunter s.durden]

Are you deployed yet?

Get back at me after you've been there a few months.

[rygD]

You are a fool if you think this is my first deployment, if you want to call it that.  This shit is nothing compared to invading Iraq a few years ago.  There is a reason that Afghanistan doesn't get as much attention.

[hunter s.durden]

It makes me a fool to not know every detail of your idiotic life?

Pics or it didn't happen.

Either way, I don't care if you've been in 20 years, you talk out of your ass.

[rygD]

you talk out of your ass.

Quite true, thank you for noticing.

[Shibboleet The Annihilator]

I forgot I made this thread...

[theCalmpsychopath]

 

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Yeah, one of my best friends from highschool played "America's propaganda machine" and decided he wanted to join the army. 6 months later he commited suicide.

I can't help but feel that if it weren't for that stupid game he'd be alive today.

One of my best friends played Mario Brothers, and decided he wanted to be a plumber.  6 months later, he was killed in a freak accident involving a hat and suspenders. 

I can't help but feel that if it weren't for that stupid game he'd be alive today.