News:

If it quacks like a sociopath, but also ponders its own sociopathy, it's probably just an asshole.

Main Menu

Why has Feminism become a Dirty Word? and Other Misogyny on the Internet.

Started by Pope Pixie Pickle, June 14, 2012, 03:55:58 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Pope Pixie Pickle

So, a while ago, Nigel turned me onto a series of Youtube videos, Tropes Vs Women, by Anita Sarkeesian who runs this blog http://femfreq.tumblr.com which started my reawakened interest in Feminism, along with the Feminism and Prostitution thread. (which incidentally is why I haven't been around here much, I've been soaking up information on Feminism in general, and sexism in pop culture.)


Recently Anita Sarkeesian started a Kickstarter to raise $6,000 on A Tropes Vs Women in Video Games project, and the video on Youtube was absolutely inundated with some real basement dwelling misogyny dudebros. the links to it are in the above blog link, and there have been articles on Kotaku.


Penny Arcade got some criticism over printing their Dickwolves T-shirt, and Courtney Stanton objected She got death threats, threats of rape and people phoning the police to try and prove she was raped. (a massive timeline of that is here- http://debacle.tumblr.com/post/3041940865/the-pratfall-of-penny-arcade-a-timeline.


The blog Fat, Ugly or Slutty was set up to document harassment of women who play online games. http://fatuglyorslutty.com/ 

So, i'm wondering how much of these attitudes professed online leak into RL? I mean we've trolled the living shit out of people,but I'm pretty sure most of the posters on PeeDee can recognise their own privilege as it stands with their own sex/race/sexuality and so on, but then again we don't tend to troll in racist or sexist ways, so... yea.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

#1
Truthfully, PD is hands-down the forum with the least misogynistic, least racist, most self-aware, and most willing to self-examine populace I've ever been on. It is an instant go-to for both men and women on both forums to take the "She's ugly and needs to get laid" route with any woman they dislike/disagree with, or, alternately, "She's obviously a slut". I HAVE encountered both of those here, but they didn't gain any support from the general forum population and in most cases ended up leaving. Recently the closest thing I've observed to that here are men who attempt to delegitimize womens' arguments by ignoring them on the basis of "I don't like you/you have it out for me", which IMO is just another version of "your arguments are invalid because you're ugly and need to get laid/uppity/a slut" without saying as much outright. It is a tool which allows them to disregard the argument/data, however sound, on basis that they don't like the person presenting it.

IRL I don't meet many men or women who are OK with either angle, but this is Portland. I bet Stella has radically different results to report.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


The Good Reverend Roger

I have met a few misogynists IRL.  I have met a TON of them online.

I think it's the "audience + anonymity = douchebag" thing, plus a little "I have to be edgier than the next guy" Totse2 kind of thing.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

BabylonHoruv

Misogyny and sexism in general are pretty rampant in the town I am in.  it ranges from basically what is being mentioned (slut shaming and she needs to get laid) to assumptions about the capability of the sexes (women can't drive, men can't control their anger, men can't clean, women can't understand computers)  a lot of it comes from people using the stereotypes as an excuse for their own gender, presumably as a way to avoid accepting fault for their own personal shortcomings.
You're a special case, Babylon.  You are offensive even when you don't post.

Merely by being alive, you make everyone just a little more miserable

-Dok Howl

Pope Pixie Pickle

Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on June 14, 2012, 04:40:21 PM
Truthfully, PD is hands-down the forum with the least misogynistic, least racist, most self-aware, and most willing to self-examine populace I've ever been on. It is an instant go-to for both men and women on both forums to take the "She's ugly and needs to get laid" route with any woman they dislike/disagree with, or, alternately, "She's obviously a slut". I HAVE encountered both of those here, but they didn't gain any support from the general forum population and in most cases ended up leaving. Recently the closest thing I've observed to that here are men who attempt to delegitimize womens' arguments by ignoring them on the basis of "I don't like you/you have it out for me", which IMO is just another version of "your arguments are invalid because you're ugly and need to get laid/uppity/a slut" without saying as much outright. It is a tool which allows them to disregard the argument/data, however sound, on basis that they don't like the person presenting it.

IRL I don't meet many men or women who are OK with either angle, but this is Portland. I bet Stella has radically different results to report.

This place is pretty utopian, as forums go, and I've seen the guys do the delegitimisation thing to each other. (admittedly I've been all up in the feminist blogosphere lately.) The other forums that I really spent a lot of time on were pretty good also. (fan-site for a pagan webcomic written by a gay guy, so yea.) so I think I have been spared the worst excesses of the internet.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 14, 2012, 05:17:35 PM
I have met a few misogynists IRL.  I have met a TON of them online.

I think it's the "audience + anonymity = douchebag" thing, plus a little "I have to be edgier than the next guy" Totse2 kind of thing.
the edgier than the next guy thing is so fucking dull. I mean, if everyone is doing it, doesn't it disqualify it from being edgy? Isn't it more edgy to have empathy and respect? 

One of the problems is as I think it stands is that movements for equality in all areas are seen as not needed by people who just aren't very aware of how society works for people who are not themselves, (the notion of having privilege.) but on the other hand, people IN the movements for equality are pretty sick of holding these guy hands and talking them through it, so there's no dialogue after the knee jerk reactions (as was the case in the whole Dickwolves thing) because were seemingly speaking in a different language. It's classic BIP stuff, really.
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on June 14, 2012, 05:30:38 PM
Misogyny and sexism in general are pretty rampant in the town I am in.  it ranges from basically what is being mentioned (slut shaming and she needs to get laid) to assumptions about the capability of the sexes (women can't drive, men can't control their anger, men can't clean, women can't understand computers)  a lot of it comes from people using the stereotypes as an excuse for their own gender, presumably as a way to avoid accepting fault for their own personal shortcomings.
As much as BH is the Master Of Squick, I think he has a valid point on this.

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Pixie on June 14, 2012, 05:38:26 PM
the edgier than the next guy thing is so fucking dull. I mean, if everyone is doing it, doesn't it disqualify it from being edgy? Isn't it more edgy to have empathy and respect? 

We're not talking about brain surgeons, Pixie.  We're talking about people who still think screaming the word "NIGGER" is the absolute height of rebellion and stickin' it to the man.  You want ORIGINALITY, too?  Hell, these poor little bastards finally found a way to piss off their hippie parents, and here you are spoiling all the fun.

You ought to be ashamed of yourself.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

The "Edgier than the next guy" thing is, indeed, stale and overdone. But as Roger notes, these people are the lowest-common-denominator types, so they probably think they're Sticking It To The Man by shitting on people who are weaker than them.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Pope Pixie Pickle

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 14, 2012, 05:43:37 PM
Quote from: Pixie on June 14, 2012, 05:38:26 PM
the edgier than the next guy thing is so fucking dull. I mean, if everyone is doing it, doesn't it disqualify it from being edgy? Isn't it more edgy to have empathy and respect? 

We're not talking about brain surgeons, Pixie.  We're talking about people who still think screaming the word "NIGGER" is the absolute height of rebellion and stickin' it to the man.  You want ORIGINALITY, too?  Hell, these poor little bastards finally found a way to piss off their hippie parents, and here you are spoiling all the fun.

You ought to be ashamed of yourself.

I enjoy pissing in their cereal, it amuses me.
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on June 14, 2012, 05:50:25 PM
The "Edgier than the next guy" thing is, indeed, stale and overdone. But as Roger notes, these people are the lowest-common-denominator types, so they probably think they're Sticking It To The Man by shitting on people who are weaker than them.
I never liked the lowest common denominator thing either. Does this make me an intellectual snob?

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on June 14, 2012, 05:50:25 PM
The "Edgier than the next guy" thing is, indeed, stale and overdone. But as Roger notes, these people are the lowest-common-denominator types, so they probably think they're Sticking It To The Man by shitting on people who are weaker than them.

HA!  I'm ACTING OUT!  I'm QUESTIONING AUTHORITY!  And by "questioning", I mean, "Doing the exact opposite, no matter how STUPID IT IS".  If anyone doesn't like it, they should GET TUFF because we all know that things like RESPECT and DECENCY are for GIRLY MEN.  I am for some reason of the opinion that talking like this on the interbutt soopermarket will somehow make me an alpha, and I'll get laid.  I am unsure of the MECHANISM of how this will happen, but I cannot take chances, because all my socks are as stiff as steel yardsticks, and it's beginning to hurt.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Pope Pixie Pickle

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 14, 2012, 05:54:04 PM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on June 14, 2012, 05:50:25 PM
The "Edgier than the next guy" thing is, indeed, stale and overdone. But as Roger notes, these people are the lowest-common-denominator types, so they probably think they're Sticking It To The Man by shitting on people who are weaker than them.

HA!  I'm ACTING OUT!  I'm QUESTIONING AUTHORITY!  And by "questioning", I mean, "Doing the exact opposite, no matter how STUPID IT IS".  If anyone doesn't like it, they should GET TUFF because we all know that things like RESPECT and DECENCY are for GIRLY MEN.  I am for some reason of the opinion that talking like this on the interbutt soopermarket will somehow make me an alpha, and I'll get laid.  I am unsure of the MECHANISM of how this will happen, but I cannot take chances, because all my socks are as stiff as steel yardsticks, and it's beginning to hurt.

hehe they didn't get the memo that in the Information age it's the smart beta types who are where the ability to provide and innovate lies. I've never found the Alpha male bullshit attractive. I love me a girly man, preferably with a beard and occasionally in a dress. :fap:

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Pixie on June 14, 2012, 06:13:49 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 14, 2012, 05:54:04 PM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on June 14, 2012, 05:50:25 PM
The "Edgier than the next guy" thing is, indeed, stale and overdone. But as Roger notes, these people are the lowest-common-denominator types, so they probably think they're Sticking It To The Man by shitting on people who are weaker than them.

HA!  I'm ACTING OUT!  I'm QUESTIONING AUTHORITY!  And by "questioning", I mean, "Doing the exact opposite, no matter how STUPID IT IS".  If anyone doesn't like it, they should GET TUFF because we all know that things like RESPECT and DECENCY are for GIRLY MEN.  I am for some reason of the opinion that talking like this on the interbutt soopermarket will somehow make me an alpha, and I'll get laid.  I am unsure of the MECHANISM of how this will happen, but I cannot take chances, because all my socks are as stiff as steel yardsticks, and it's beginning to hurt.

hehe they didn't get the memo that in the Information age it's the smart beta types who are where the ability to provide and innovate lies. I've never found the Alpha male bullshit attractive. I love me a girly man, preferably with a beard and occasionally in a dress. :fap:

That's just a different beta.  The yutzes which we are discussing are ALSO betas, but a BAD kind of beta, because they slavishly follow the most odious among them.  Different tribe, same wiring.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

I don't think most of these people even know what "alpha" and "beta" personality types are. They're just using them as some tidy little bite-sized buzzwords into which to pigeonhole all their insecurities.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Anna Mae Bollocks

#12
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on June 14, 2012, 04:40:21 PM
Truthfully, PD is hands-down the forum with the least misogynistic, least racist, most self-aware, and most willing to self-examine populace I've ever been on. It is an instant go-to for both men and women on both forums to take the "She's ugly and needs to get laid" route with any woman they dislike/disagree with, or, alternately, "She's obviously a slut". I HAVE encountered both of those here, but they didn't gain any support from the general forum population and in most cases ended up leaving. Recently the closest thing I've observed to that here are men who attempt to delegitimize womens' arguments by ignoring them on the basis of "I don't like you/you have it out for me", which IMO is just another version of "your arguments are invalid because you're ugly and need to get laid/uppity/a slut" without saying as much outright. It is a tool which allows them to disregard the argument/data, however sound, on basis that they don't like the person presenting it.

IRL I don't meet many men or women who are OK with either angle, but this is Portland. I bet Stella has radically different results to report.

Oooooh yeah. A few of them have Bible quotes to back it up, because the man is SUPPOSED to be the head of everything and GOD SAID SO.

The kids tend not to be religious zealots, it's more of a hip-hop culture with gems like "You need some dick in your life".

Saying somebody needs to get laid isn't socially acceptable in certain situations, but only because it ALLUDES TO SEX. 

It's a small town, so hanging the slut jacket on people is encouraged. Even if they're just passing by. No actual debate ever takes place here. If you express a view they don't agree with, you get either silence or "YOU FUCKING WHORE".  :horrormirth:

We have a lot of pro-lifers, of course. If you scratch a pro-lifer deep enough, you always find misogyny. Even the women here are pro-life, I don't think they ever HEAR anything else. Except from me, but they probably think I'm some lunatic fringe aberration.

You have to go all the way to Austin or at least San Marcos to find people who aren't like this. Srs.


Scantily-Clad Inspector of Gigantic and Unnecessary Cashews, Texas Division

Anna Mae Bollocks

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 14, 2012, 05:54:04 PM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on June 14, 2012, 05:50:25 PM
The "Edgier than the next guy" thing is, indeed, stale and overdone. But as Roger notes, these people are the lowest-common-denominator types, so they probably think they're Sticking It To The Man by shitting on people who are weaker than them.

HA!  I'm ACTING OUT!  I'm QUESTIONING AUTHORITY!  And by "questioning", I mean, "Doing the exact opposite, no matter how STUPID IT IS".  If anyone doesn't like it, they should GET TUFF because we all know that things like RESPECT and DECENCY are for GIRLY MEN.  I am for some reason of the opinion that talking like this on the interbutt soopermarket will somehow make me an alpha, and I'll get laid.  I am unsure of the MECHANISM of how this will happen, but I cannot take chances, because all my socks are as stiff as steel yardsticks, and it's beginning to hurt.

:lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
Scantily-Clad Inspector of Gigantic and Unnecessary Cashews, Texas Division

Freeky

A thing that puts my hackles up right away is guys who say that they're sadistic and/or very dominant and/or, and most especially, that they have a rape fetish or fantasy. Those are A) an attempt to be a bad boy, B) they think they're being edgy, or C) they don't want to treat an SO as their equal. It's fucking disturbing how many people will say they have rape fantasies, women too.

I've taken to saying that I'm willing to try it, but I've never used a strap on before.