Unlimited MENA Revolt Thread

[Cain]

There is a certain breed of commentator who, when asked about the Israeli-Palestine conflict, will say "oh, I have sympathy for the plight of the Palestinians, of course, but they need to commit themselves to non-violent protest.  Only then will they win the respect of the international community that their cause deserves".

These commentators are often the more intelligent kind of conservative or pro-Israeli Democrat, when confronted by supporters of the Palestinian cause.

Well.  Palestinians have been peacefully protesting for the last month, and the response from Israel has been to send soldiers with live ammunition to cut them down.  Just like every other Arab autocracy in the region, in fact.

It's funny, but I don't see the international community running to endorse a Palestinian state and restrain Israel anytime soon. It's almost like people don't actually care what their favoured side does (whichever side they choose), they only care about using foreign conflicts as a stick to beat their domestic opponents with.  But of course, that is just crass cynicism speaking.

As for the Palestinian protestors, well, Machiavelli said, "Hence it comes about that all armed Prophets have been victorious, and all unarmed Prophets have been destroyed."  They're about to get a short, sharp lesson in why disarming yourself leads to being treated with contempt.

[Cain]

Er yes, the two month thing (in the absence of congress actually voting on the matter anyway).

I'll be highly amused if they don't come home by then, if only because it'll finally force the courts to admit if they have any intention of enforcing the war powers clause.

It's been over two months now, and no vote has taken place.  Kuncinich and some House Repubs tried to protest, but were solidly defeated in the vote.

[Cain]

Shit just got real in Yemen.  President Saleh's compound came under RPG attack on Friday and was "injured" by some shrapnel and to fly to Saudi Arabia for "surgery".  For those who can read between the lines, that means a nasty and mostly covert struggle for power has kicked off.  The Republican Guard, various intelligence services and Vice-Presidency are all held by different power brokers, so this should be fun.

[LMNO]

BUT CAIN! ITZ TEH 'ARAB SPRING'! ALLA THE MOOZLIMS ARE GETTIN' DEMOKRATIK!

[Prince Glittersnatch III]

There is a certain breed of commentator who, when asked about the Israeli-Palestine conflict, will say "oh, I have sympathy for the plight of the Palestinians, of course, but they need to commit themselves to non-violent protest.  Only then will they win the respect of the international community that their cause deserves".

These commentators are often the more intelligent kind of conservative or pro-Israeli Democrat, when confronted by supporters of the Palestinian cause.

Well.  Palestinians have been peacefully protesting for the last month, and the response from Israel has been to send soldiers with live ammunition to cut them down.  Just like every other Arab autocracy in the region, in fact.

It's funny, but I don't see the international community running to endorse a Palestinian state and restrain Israel anytime soon. It's almost like people don't actually care what their favoured side does (whichever side they choose), they only care about using foreign conflicts as a stick to beat their domestic opponents with.  But of course, that is just crass cynicism speaking.

As for the Palestinian protestors, well, Machiavelli said, "Hence it comes about that all armed Prophets have been victorious, and all unarmed Prophets have been destroyed."  They're about to get a short, sharp lesson in why disarming yourself leads to being treated with contempt.

The sad thing is this means that there will probably never be a peacfull resolution to this. The pallasenians will probably never take another chance with nonviolence and the Israelis will use palestines violence to justify their violence.

[Cain]

Oh Clinton, your Bush II-esque tactics never fail to amaze

http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2011/06/166752.htm

But the bottom line is, whose side are you on? Are you on Qadhafi's side or are you on the side of the aspirations of the Libyan people and the international coalition that has been created to support them? For the Obama Administration, the answer to that question is very easy.

Here's some extra fun

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/02/17/clinton/index.html

"I really consider President and Mrs. Mubarak to be friends of my family".

[Cain]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-14352662

Libyan rebel commander Gen Abdel Fattah Younes was shot dead by a militia linked to his own side, a rebel minister has said.

Ali Tarhouni said Gen Younes was killed by members of the Obaida Ibn Jarrah Brigade, which is an Islamist group.

Gen Younes defected to the rebels in February after serving in the Libyan leadership since the 1969 coup which brought Col Muammar Gaddafi to power.

But how can this be?  I've been assured by supporters of the war that there are no Islamists working with the rebels.  In other news, this makes the chances of the rebels ever winning even slimmer than they already were, which is saying something.

Meanwhile, in Egypt...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-14341089

Tens of thousands of people have packed Cairo's Tahrir Square, after the first call by Islamist leaders for nationwide demonstrations since President Hosni Mubarak was overthrown in February.

Many protesters - dominated by Muslim Brotherhood supporters - are calling for an Islamic state and Sharia law.

Correspondents say the rallies will be a worrying development for secularists.

The Brotherhood is the most organised political force in Egypt, although it was not prominent in the revolution.

Tensions have been running high between Egypt's Islamist and secular groups, who are at odds over the transition to democracy in the Arab world's most populated country.

Casualties

Later there were a number of casualties when violence broke out in a separate incident in Sinai.

"We have two bodies of civilians in the morgue now and 12 police conscripts being treated for injuries in hospital," Hisham Shiha, Egypt's deputy health minister, told state television.

Around 100 armed men drove around the city of El-Arish, shouting Islamic slogans, and firing into the air, before attacking a police station.

Terrified residents fled into their homes. One of those killed was a 13-year-old boy, according to reports in the local media.

Turning point?

Among the earlier protests in Tahrir Square, liberal groups called for guarantees of a constitution that will protect religious freedom and personal rights, whereas Islamists demanded speedy elections and a recognition of Islam - in one form or another - in the new Egyptian state.

Now the Islamists want their voice to be heard and are showing their muscle for the first time since Mr Mubarak stepped down on 11 February, says the BBC's Jon Leyne in Cairo.

Although the Muslim Brotherhood can turn out huge crowds by rallying its supporters at mosques, it does not necessarily represent the majority of Egyptians and is predicted to win around 20% of the vote in an election, our correspondent says.

[Cain]

Hey, who remembers Hama?  Because it is about to get round 2 of the kind of treatment it got in 1982:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-14356722

The Syrian army has stormed the western city of Hama, with residents saying that dozens of people have been killed and injured.

Hama, a hub of anti-government protest, has been besieged for nearly a month.

Locals have reported "intense gunfire" after troops and tanks moved into the city from several directions at dawn.

The army is signalling that it will not tolerate large-scale unrest ahead of the month of Ramadan, when protests are expected to grow, correspondents say.

Syria has seen more than four months of protests against the rule of President Bashar al-Assad.
Centre of protests

A doctor in Hama told Reuters news agency that the death toll was rising rapidly, putting the latest estimate at 24.

He said the city's Badr, al-Horani and Hikmeh hospitals had received 19, three and two dead bodies respectively.

"[Tanks] are firing their heavy machineguns randomly and overrunning makeshift road blocks erected by the inhabitants," he said by phone, with machinegun fire in the background.

Hama was the scene of the suppression of an uprising against President Assad's father in 1982. The city has seen some of the biggest demonstrations of the recent unrest.

Activists say more than 1,500 civilians and 350 security personnel have been killed across Syria since protests began in mid-March. More than 12,600 have been arrested and 3,000 others are missing.

The protests show no sign of letting up despite a government crackdown that has brought international condemnation and sanctions.

On Saturday, troops shot dead three people who threw stones at a military convoy sent to quash unrest in the eastern city of Deir al-Zour, the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said.

Spokesman Rami Abdel Rahman said about 60 military vehicles, including tanks, personnel carriers and trucks crammed with soldiers deployed in the key oil hub, which has seen near daily protests.

A total of 20 people were killed and 35 wounded on Friday as hundreds of thousands of protested in cities across Syria, rights groups said.

More than 500 people were arrested in a single operation in the Qadam neighbourhood of the capital Damascus, they added.

[Jenne]

...ah yes, and so it has begun--the Holy Month of Ramadan Bloodshed and Suffering.

[Cain]

Gadaffi now controls 20% more of Libya than he did at the start of the rebellion.

Meanwhile, the leader of the Benghazi rebels just sacked the entire government.  No-one is sure if he has the authority to do this, but then no-one is sure of anything much nowadays, including whether or not the TNC authorised the hit on General Younes.

[Cain]

Oops.

A UK firm offered to supply "cyber-spy" software used by Egypt to target activists, the BBC has learned.

Documents found in the headquarters of the country's security service suggest it was used for a five-month trial period at the end of last year.

Hampshire-based Gamma International UK denies actually supplying the program, which infects computers with a virus that bugs online voice calls and email.

The foreign secretary says he will "critically" examine export controls.

After hearing evidence compiled by the BBC, William Hague, who speaks for the government on computer security issues, said: "Any export of goods that could be used for internal repression is something we would want to stop."

He also admitted the law governing software exports was a grey area.

The documents seen by the BBC were found at the looted headquarters of the Egyptian state security building earlier this year.

They describe an offer by Gamma International UK Ltd to supply a software programme called Finfisher.

Finfisher is described as a toolkit "used by many global security and intelligence services" for secretly gaining access to people's computers.

The files from the Egyptian secret police's Electronic Penetration Division described Gamma's product as "the only security system in the world" capable of bugging Skype phone conversations on the internet.

They detail a five-month trial by the Egyptian secret police which found the product had "proved to be an efficient electronic system for penetrating secure systems [which] accesses email boxes of Hotmail, Yahoo and Gmail networks".

Another document discovered by German public television network MDR is thought to reveal the first-known victims of the Finfisher program.

The document describes how, during the period of the software trial, the secret police successfully broke into and recorded encrypted Skype calls.

Sherif Mansour, from the US democracy group Freedom House, was in Egypt last year to help monitor parliamentary elections.

[Precious Moments Zalgo]

So Gamma offered to supply the program to Egypt, and Egypt had the program for a five-month trial during which they used the it to crack down on dissidents, but Gamma "denies actually supplying the program".

[Cain]

Naturally.  It was only a trial version.  The Egyptian government must have cracked the full-version purchase code somehow.

Or Gamma are lying gits.  One or the other.

In other news, President Saleh has, amazingly, returned to Yemen.  No word if Saudi military advisors and arms are supporting him (yet) but I wouldn't be surprised to discover that this is the case.  And the body count has suddenly shot up.  Civil war looks quite likely.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-15044857

At least 17 people have been killed in a government assault on protesters in the Yemeni capital Sanaa, reports say.

Witnesses say the demonstrators came under attack in the capital's Change Square - the focus of months of protests.

The attack on the camp's southern end reportedly started late on Friday.

The violence comes a day after the return of President Ali Abdullah Saleh from three months' treatment in Saudi Arabia following an assassination bid.

Correspondents say his arrival back in Yemen raises the risk of all-out civil war.

The upsurge in violence happened at the end of a week of fighting in which scores of people are reported to have died.

Mohammed al-Qabati, a medic at the field hospital in the square, told AFP news agency 55 were wounded in the latest attack.

A number of soldiers from a defecting military brigade which has been protecting protesters were among those killed, Mr Qatabi and a spokesman for the brigade said.

Tents and buildings were set on fire, witnesses said.

A resident near the camp told Reuters news agency that government forces had used armoured vehicles and rifles.

"It was an intense fight... My house was shaking like crazy... There are no protesters there now - it's just armed people," the witness said.

Other reports spoke of government troops shelling the 4km (2.5-mile) stretch of avenue which protesters have dubbed Change Square.

Earlier on Friday, at least 13 people reportedly died in fighting in the capital.

Activists have been camped out in Change Square since January, demanding an end to Mr Saleh's decades-long rule.

Clashes in the capital have recently intensified as elite Republican Guards, led by President Saleh's son Ahmed, fight running battles with army units that have defected to the opposition and tribal fighters who support the protesters.

Note, these are the same "tribal fighters" who have been, in many cases mistakenly, linked to Al-Qaeda.  Saleh has claimed Al-Qaeda are behind the uprising in his country.  When the US government hears another government utter the words "Al-Qaeda" it tends to ship arms.  Just saying.

[Cain]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-15752058

Syrian army defectors have attacked a major military base near Damascus, Syrian opposition groups say.

Parts of the Air Force Intelligence building in Harasta were reported to have been destroyed in the attack, but there were no reports of casualties.

It would be the Free Syrian Army's most high-profile attack since Syria's anti-government protests began.

The attack comes as the Arab League prepares to discuss its response to the crackdown on the unrest in Syria.

The Syrian government has severely restricted access for foreign journalists, and reports of violence are extremely difficult to verify.

The UN says more than 3,500 people have died since protests started in March. The Syrian authorities blame the violence on armed gangs and militants.

Army defectors have carried out a number of attacks on military targets in recent weeks but the Harasta incident, if confirmed, would be their most audacious so far.

Such an attack would be significant because Syria's Air Force Intelligence is one of the most feared state agencies and has been involved in the suppression of protests against President Bashar al-Assad.

The base is also very close to the capital, which has remained relatively quiet in the unrest so far.

The closer Syria drifts to civil war, the more the calls for intervention will increase.

[Scribbly]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-15752058

Syrian army defectors have attacked a major military base near Damascus, Syrian opposition groups say.

Parts of the Air Force Intelligence building in Harasta were reported to have been destroyed in the attack, but there were no reports of casualties.

It would be the Free Syrian Army's most high-profile attack since Syria's anti-government protests began.

The attack comes as the Arab League prepares to discuss its response to the crackdown on the unrest in Syria.

The Syrian government has severely restricted access for foreign journalists, and reports of violence are extremely difficult to verify.

The UN says more than 3,500 people have died since protests started in March. The Syrian authorities blame the violence on armed gangs and militants.

Army defectors have carried out a number of attacks on military targets in recent weeks but the Harasta incident, if confirmed, would be their most audacious so far.

Such an attack would be significant because Syria's Air Force Intelligence is one of the most feared state agencies and has been involved in the suppression of protests against President Bashar al-Assad.

The base is also very close to the capital, which has remained relatively quiet in the unrest so far.

The closer Syria drifts to civil war, the more the calls for intervention will increase.

What do you think the outcome here is going to be? The Syrian regime seems to be more resilient than the others which have toppled recently, and I suspect that losing them is not in the Arab League's interests, but if the rebels are upping their activities and they have the support of the people, can they be stopped?

Reading up on it a little more, apparently November is the bloodiest month so far with over 300 fatalities - at what point does it become official civil war?