Ayn Rand

[Y.M. Hut]

I couldn't help but notice that many of you forumgoers consider yourself libertarian. My problem lies not with libertarianism, but the so-called branch of libertarianism that Ayn Rand dedictated herself to.

I've found Ayn Rand's "philosophies" cynical and distorted. I can't buy into the idea of serving oneself, and only oneself. I can't see selfishness as a virtue and I can't understand giving greater concern over oneself than over others.

I've always wondered what kind of personal and social atmosphere could cause someone like Ayn Rand to believe in what she did. "Communist" Russia could very well do this, the extremes of the Soviet State could easily brood the extremes of the selfish individual as emphasized by Rand.

Nonetheless, I find it hard to believe that one could hate all forms of collectivism. Collectivism, the tribal commune, the very thing that allowed primitive man to grow.

I'm not a hardlined communist, I'm not even a hardlined socialist. I like to think of myself as a loose communist libertarian. And I've always like to think that we, as a species, have advanced sufficiently in order to look outside the self, and concern ourself with the needs of others. I'm not a supporter of some Orwellian collective mass of drones, obviously, but I can't help but think that we need to help each other out. I want to help others out, maybe it's altruistic, maybe it's biological selfishness causing me to behave "helpfully" in order to release some kind of chemical stimulant. In any case, I feel that as long as there's somebody asking for help, it's my duty as a fellow human, to help as far as I can. And last time I checked the global situation, there were a hell of a lot of people asking for help.

I had to vent.

Now what do you discordians/erisians/libertarians/statists/&c. feel about her ladyship, Ayn Rand?

[Z³]

I, personally, have never been her biggest fan. Mostly for the reasons you described.

My thought is that the clash between self servience, and tribal commune nature, is deep rooted in the human psyche. One tribe of apes would compete with another tribe of apes. The thing is, as time goes on, is that the tribes get bigger and assimilate into one another. However, this does not destroy, nor will it destroy, the fact that you can still subdivide these apes a million different ways (and they will).

In the end, her writing is merely self descriptive of what she considers the ideal... and its all built upon her impressions of right and wrong.

There are inherant flaws in every economic system. In capitalism, one person can have a billion dollars (whether it was justly earned, or not, isnt the question) and that gives this person the ability to shape the world around him, which is bad or good, because this person can use his economic influence to widen the gap between poor and rich.

In the ideal of communism, everyone is equal... but there is no motivation to "work harder". Also, you wont ever be able to create this communistic ideal once you get into four digit numbers (even two and three digit numbers are a challenge).

[Irreverend Hugh, KSC]

Well,
We do need to establish some sort of society whereby each individual has the power to have their own destiny. I don't think that state socialism/communism or state capitalism would help us to create it. As for the incentive to work hard...how many billionaires do you know work harder than say a gas station attendent or a factory worker? How is it that those who work the hardest earn the least bit of a miserable crumb. I do agree with Marx on the point about the people (ie. workers) who produce the wealth should be the ones who get to enjoy it.
We will have justice and freedom...otherwise REVOLUTION!

[Fistacleesy]

Ayn Rand is such a prick. That's why I love her so much.

[Ranna]

Nothing good shall come of this.

[Fearless Freep]

I couldn't find the option for "Satan" so I didn't vote.

[Miss Silver]

Ayn Rand

In a couple of words someone who believes in doing for oneself and only oneself, and yet gets others devoted to her.  Kind of backward no?  Reminds me of an interesting quote "Im Trying To Conform Into A NonConformist Subculture" a little more than slightly... odd.

Im not libertarian, I used to be Anarchist, now I am kind of a downshifter who avoids politics and government where I can, I work in a unregulated industry where its cash only, I don't file taxes, I live very modestly and I can pick up and go at a moments notice, changing my name, my life, my whole being to suit where I am going.  Some people live off the grid, I live off the map.

Miss Silver

[The Commander]

I live off of Vodka Martini's and tiny soup crackers.

The Commander
DIA

[Irreverend Hugh, KSC]

Yes. I'm getting off the map soon, too...at least the one in North America.

[The Commander]

I heard the Betty Ford Clinic does a good job of helping people get off the Map.

The Commander
DIA

[Miss Silver]

Betty Ford helps people get off the map, its the 12 steppers who keep people from ever going back.

Miss Silver

[The Commander]

I'm in the middle of an "on the map" remission.  Help!  I need an intervention!

The Commander
DIA

[Irreverend Hugh, KSC]

Never fear the map! Just cut it up and smoke it down smoothely, and all your worries will go away.

[Trollax]

Map... what Map? I've seen the atlas... but where's the map? There's bush's roadmap to piece (not a typo) but where's THE map? The map to th stars? The map to space? There's no space left to map... So I destroyed space and let all the maps go...

~Conan the Trollax~

[Trollax]

Don't Fear the Mapper
(a spurious parody of 'don't fear the reaper' by the blue-oyster cult)

Now the border's gone...
Into the the unknown...
Paper don't fear the mapper
Nor do sextants rulers and pens (we can be like they are)

So come on baby (Don't fear the mapper)
Baby take my hand (Don't fear the mapper)
We can still change (Don't fear the mapper)
We're in chaos' Hands

La la la la la <<<<<Interesting side note: Law of fives
La la la la la

Now the map is done
Nowhere left to run
Cortez and Columbus
Have no more visions left to seek (Cortez and Columbus)
Horizons being broken down everyday (Like Cortez and Columbus)
People being broken down everyday (redefining progress)
But the comets could take all that away (we could be like they are)
So come on baby (Don't fear the mapper)
Baby take my hand (Don't fear the mapper)
We can still change (Don't fear the mapper)
We're in chaos' Hands

La la la la la
La la la la la

Now as we spin on
Into the last unknown
Falling into the last abyss
Brighter than the stars we know
The cities fell and the planets cleared
The stars all flared and then disappeared
The universe tore and then she appeared..... (Saying don't be afraid)
Come on baby (and we had no fear)
And we ran to her (then we started to fly)
There was nothing to say good bye (we have become like they are)
we have taken her hand (and we've become like they are)
Come on baby (don't fear the mapper)
Baby take my hand (Don't fear the mapper)
We can still change (Don't fear the mapper)
We're in chaos' Hands

La la la la la
La la la la la

~Blue-Oyster Trollax~

Beat that weird al!!!!!