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Testimonial - Well it seems that most of you "discordians" are little more than dupes of the Cathedral/NWO memetic apparatus after all -- "freethinkers" in the sense that you are willing to think slightly outside the designated boxes of correct thought, but not free in the sense that you reject the existence of the boxes and seek their destruction.

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Feminist critique

Started by BADGE OF HONOR, October 13, 2005, 05:37:27 PM

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BADGE OF HONOR

or, why having a vagina isn't really all that bad.

Quote from: Linda NochlinArt is not a free autonomous activity of a super-endowed individual, "influenced" by previous artists and more vaguely and superficially by "social forces" but rather occurs in a social situation, is an integral element of social structure, and is mediated and determined by specific and definable social institutions.

The main problem with feminism is that it doesn't acknowledge that everyone is equally fucked, especially in this day and age.  Call modern society the Machine, or Fat City, or the Establishment, whatever, it's an equal-opportunity crusher, and dwelling on one specific aspect of one's disadvantage merely generates unhappiness.

In my important opinion, the largest issue within feminism today isn't whether women are being properly "represented", or whether women are being "offended" by painting the locker rooms pink, or whether saying "woman" is bad and "womyn" is good.  The most important issue is the persistant proliferation of sexual violence against women, or rather the events and issues that surround a woman protesting sexual violence done to her.  

But that's not the main thrust of this rant.  I am concerned here and now with the oh-so-important discussion of feminist art criticism.  

Firstly, there is the issue of art vs. craft.  Apparently, because "high art" has mainly been the purview of men, and "handicrafts" has been the domain of women, there is conscious, intentional oppression of women within the realm of art.  But let's think about this for a moment.

All cultures divide tasks by gender.  It's just the way it is.   In its most basic form, hunter-gatherer societies, the men go hunt and the women gather.  This sets up a pattern:  the men do things that require a great deal of concentration, that should not be interrupted, often away from the home and often needing a great deal of effort.  Consider traditional men's occupations:  farming, herding, hunting, woodworking, metalworking, etc.  Women, on the other hand, stayed home and took care of everything else.  Shocking, I know, but that's how it happened.  They had to do a great variety of labor-intensive but necessary tasks, such as cooking, cleaning, tending to children and animals, and managing the family's finances.  So the women have crafts that are utilitarian--because who has time for purely frivolous pursuits--and can be interrupted or done while multitasking.  Quilt-making is the prime example:  quilts, while still quite decorative, are still functional and even essential.  Quilts can be done collaboratively, and often serve significant social functions.

So what's the pattern here?  Women didn't do "high art" because they bloody well didn't have time.  Art is basically frivolous, it's messy, it requires one's full attention, and needs a high amount of specific knowledge, practice, and skill.  In essence, it's a manly thing to do.  For a woman to succeed at art, she basically had to be independantly wealthy, an uncommon thing for most of history.

Only in the 20th century have we seen an upsurge in women participating in art, basically because of a breakdown in traditional gender roles and the acknowledgement that women have the right* to do whatever they want.  But the major sticking point for feminists is that women artists are still operating within a man's world.  I say so?  Women CEOs are operating within a man's world too, and I haven't seen anyone question the entire institution of corporate patriarchy.  Yes, there have been accusations of discrimination, as with everywhere else, but no one seems to question that women basically have to act like men to succeed in the corporate world.  That is the basic feminist objection to the art "Establishment".

The second major theme within feminism is that men and women experience and perceive reality differently.  This is apparently tremendously exciting and ground-shaking, but any pop psychologist could have told me that and I still would go on my merry way.  The problem with focusing on this particular difference is that other differences fall by the wayside.  Everyone experiences reality differently, because everyone is different.  Sure, gender is the most basic difference between human beings, but it isn't the only thing.  Personality, that driving force behind the creation of art, is affected by any number of variables, from sexuality to income to parentage to brain chemistry to religious upbringing ad infinitum.  Stating that men and women artists do things differently is like saying that Caravaggio and Michelangelo have different styles--if that’s the only thing you say, there’s no real point in saying it.

Unfortunately, the issue of gender is still chaotic and sticky.  Since the dissolving of traditional gender roles, the difference between men and women suddenly become that much harder to deal with, since there are no longer structured methods of interaction.  In some ways, this is good, but in a society that is attempting to homogenize everyone into a doughy middle-class, difference of any sort is as painfully obvious as a pimple on the end of everyone's nose.  Suddenly, being different and alluding to difference becomes a tricky, delicate subject, or in the case of art, something that can be relished and exploited.

Sadly, contemporary art is still suffering from avant-garde extremism.  Instead of just making art, it must be right on the bleeding edge of whatever ideology you buy into.  Really, really unfortunately feminists tend to take "bleeding edge" literally and you have women playing with their own menstrual fluids.

I'm not saying that feminism is entirely bad.  It's made huge strides over the last hundred years.  Feminism is why I can sit here now saying whatever I want about random shit.  But it is an ideology that is not particularly suited for application everywhere, and frankly needs an update.  The only time I have really been oppressed, ironically, is when feminists have told me that I am.  It needs to stop talking in terms of "us and them" and get into a more progressive, proactive, and practical framework.

Thank you for your time.  This work was inspire by The Feminist Critique of Art History by Thalia Gouma-Peterson and Patricia Mathews.  I recommend not reading it.



*This should be distinguished from "can".  Legally, women can do whatever they want, but they still must operate within societal restrictions.
The Jerk On Bike rolled his eyes and tossed the waffle back over his shoulder--before it struck the ground, a stout, disconcertingly monkey-like dog sprang into the air and snatched it, and began to masticate it--literally--for the sound it made was like a homonculus squatting on the floor muttering "masticate masticate masticate".

agent compassion

Fucking RAH!

AC,
ex-art student

'I'll take you out for a meal with Mr. and Mrs. Pain, order up some violent quiche. Do you want some?' - ++++++ Moon


LMNO

::whistles, stamps feet::


Rah, Badger!





Now show your tits!

Bella

Wow. Very well thought out and written Badger.
I'm impressed.
just like in a dream
you'll open your mouth to scream
and you won't make a sound

you can't believe your eyes
you can't believe your ears
you can't believe your friends
you can't believe you're here

Shibboleet The Annihilator

Nice ass!





Also, nice rant.

Eldora, Oracle of Alchemy

I have felt your pain, just not in regards to art history.  Nice rant.  Some of the women most oppressed have been those that make the decision to go without things like cable TV, internet and other luxuries that most of us take for granted, in order to stay home with their young children.  I commend all women who do that, as well as all the women who take on corpamerico.  Sometimes I think kids are way worse to deal with than Dilbert's pointy haired boss.  Sometimes not.  

People thought whatshisname with the crucifix in urine was bad, hehehe, what's next?  Everybody Poops and Plays with it, art of a toddler :lol:

Mangrove

[applause for badger]

please direct other users to this post the next time someone gets on the 'no one posts anything of substance anymore' kick.
What makes it so? Making it so is what makes it so.

BADGE OF HONOR

Thanks.  I could beef up some of the statements near the end, but I had gotten pretty tired by that point, and having ranted to satiation I'm not sure I'll bother to go back.  Maybe the next time I get irritated I'll expand it a bit.
The Jerk On Bike rolled his eyes and tossed the waffle back over his shoulder--before it struck the ground, a stout, disconcertingly monkey-like dog sprang into the air and snatched it, and began to masticate it--literally--for the sound it made was like a homonculus squatting on the floor muttering "masticate masticate masticate".

fluffy


::irritates badger::

hey!
i found a ranting machine!

::irritates badger some more::



ps. i liked it

Irreverend Hugh, KSC

That's why I fucking hate much of today's art. (Don't get me started on artists, that's for another day and a response to some other rant.)

I hate the stupid concepts. I hate post modernism and anything to do with it. I hate the highbrow shit that requires one to read the artist's statement in order to understand the work. (Buddy, if you got to write a statement to explain the piece, you failed.)

Fuck On A! Rabid Badger 10/10!
"Time for the tin-foil hats, girls and boys!"

BADGE OF HONOR

Quote from: Irreverend Hewn, KSCThat's why I fucking hate much of today's art. (Don't get me started on artists, that's for another day and a response to some other rant.)

I hate the stupid concepts. I hate post modernism and anything to do with it. I hate the highbrow shit that requires one to read the artist's statement in order to understand the work. (Buddy, if you got to write a statement to explain the piece, you failed.)
Hear, hear!
The Jerk On Bike rolled his eyes and tossed the waffle back over his shoulder--before it struck the ground, a stout, disconcertingly monkey-like dog sprang into the air and snatched it, and began to masticate it--literally--for the sound it made was like a homonculus squatting on the floor muttering "masticate masticate masticate".

Cain

I give this my seal of approval.  I may have to bump it once I start on all that shizzle after the New year.

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Rabid Badger of God
The main problem with feminism is that it doesn't acknowledge that everyone is equally fucked, especially in this day and age.  Call modern society the Machine, or Fat City, or the Establishment, whatever, it's an equal-opportunity crusher, and dwelling on one specific aspect of one's disadvantage merely generated unhappiness.


Depends on what you call feminism.

Great rant, BTW.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

BADGE OF HONOR

I'm talking about the outspoken feminists who persistently self-victimize in order to feel special about themselves.
The Jerk On Bike rolled his eyes and tossed the waffle back over his shoulder--before it struck the ground, a stout, disconcertingly monkey-like dog sprang into the air and snatched it, and began to masticate it--literally--for the sound it made was like a homonculus squatting on the floor muttering "masticate masticate masticate".

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Rabid Badger of GodI'm talking about the outspoken feminists who persistently self-victimize in order to feel special about themselves.

Oh.  We Good Reverends call those "Attention Whores".
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.