this is a question i've been meaning to ask somebody for a while. i don't very often IRL because people think it's a stupid question or something. but, this is the internets, and all questions here are stupid.
musicians write/perform music, usually. but do you think that sometimes, like with truly great pieces of musical art, musicians aren't writing the music so much as like accidentally stumbling across the songs?
Perhaps. A lot of the creative process isn't necessarily intentional, so much as it's stumbling across something interesting in the subconscious/collective unconscious/whatever. It's all a matter of the kind of musician. Some are very stream-of-consciousness while others prefer to be in control of every aspect of their music, and I'd imagine it's the more stream of consciousness types who stumble across their songs rather than write them.
Quote from: vexati0n on March 11, 2008, 05:13:07 AM
this is a question i've been meaning to ask somebody for a while. i don't very often IRL because people think it's a stupid question or something. but, this is the internets, and all questions here are stupid.
musicians write/perform music, usually. but do you think that sometimes, like with truly great pieces of musical art, musicians aren't writing the music so much as like accidentally stumbling across the songs?
I think it depends on the musician. I think there are musicians who do sit down and note-by-note compose pieces on paper. They'll sit down at a piano, figure out melodies and rhtymic patterns and scrawl it down.
Personally, I'm more of an "in-the-moment" musician. I've been in a few different bands. One where we somewhat, methodically crafted tunes, another where we just played to see what would come out.
Of all the tunes I've written myself, most just kind of happened. I didn't set out to write a particular riff, I just turn on my drum machine, pick a random rhythm, and see what happens. Actually, I sometimes find it very difficult when I do work a rhytm out in this matter, to recreate it on a recording. Because, I feel whem music is spontaneous is when it's at it's most primal and when it is most powerful. When you then play that piece over and over again, while recording, to perfect it, I feel some of the life gets sucked out of it. I don't know if others experience this or if I'm just thinking about it too much.
Often, my best pieces come in two ways:
1. some sort of musical or rhythmic pattern will just pop into my head, and i have to rush to the nearest tape recorder, or quickly scrawl down some notation.
2. I'll be fooling around on an instrument, and it will make this awesome sound that I just have to use somehow.
After that, It's just a matter of sweating blood to come up with the rest of it.
LMNO
-bloody handkerchief.
When i make music for The Toilet i never know what the hell is gonna happen.
It´s all just based on sudden notions. And im always surprised what it sounds like afterwards.
I guess the music making process very individual, but it seems like 90% of all people making
music likes to have control, structure, follow certain musical rules, and order.
I know i dont for sure. I steal, fuck shit up and spew out new excrements. PLUNDERPHONICS.
http://www.myspace.com/toiletpower (http://www.myspace.com/toiletpower)
Some of my most satisfying stuff has emerged in my head almost in one piece... usually when I'm driving, or in the shower, or someplace that makes it hard to do what LMNO said and run to a tape recorder to get at least the melody line down... there have even been a couple times when I woke up having dreamed a nice little riff.... which usually causes me to fire up the basement studio long enough to get it out of my head so I can go back to sleep.
The most unsatisfactory stuff I have ever done was bludgeoned to death with logic and theory and "resolve to a Major always happens after a dissonant Minor" kind of thinking... I have one particular tune in mind right now.... I've gone 3 out of 5 falls with it and put it down each time because I just can't get past the rules to find the right feel... meh... maybe 5 out of 7?
The important question is do you have any MP3s of your music to share with the rest of the class?
Quote from: singer on September 12, 2008, 12:15:54 PM
The most unsatisfactory stuff I have ever done was bludgeoned to death with logic and theory and "resolve to a Major always happens after a dissonant Minor" kind of thinking... I have one particular tune in mind right now.... I've gone 3 out of 5 falls with it and put it down each time because I just can't get past the rules to find the right feel... meh... maybe 5 out of 7?
Have you tried The Oblique Strategies (http://www.rtqe.net/ObliqueStrategies/)?
Will post a bunch of dis(co)order(dian)organ(disco)party(hu)tyj(do)pe()Ddk)Ssdd(assd()=AA
right
now.
http://squalorbase.com/bulldozer/bbc_skiva/toilettest/ (http://squalorbase.com/bulldozer/bbc_skiva/toilettest/)
HAPPY PLEASURE!
Quote from: LMNO on September 12, 2008, 02:22:59 PM
Quote from: singer on September 12, 2008, 12:15:54 PM
The most unsatisfactory stuff I have ever done was bludgeoned to death with logic and theory and "resolve to a Major always happens after a dissonant Minor" kind of thinking... I have one particular tune in mind right now.... I've gone 3 out of 5 falls with it and put it down each time because I just can't get past the rules to find the right feel... meh... maybe 5 out of 7?
Have you tried The Oblique Strategies (http://www.rtqe.net/ObliqueStrategies/)?
Oooh... thanks... I tried the on-line deck but couldn't get network access.... so then I went to the diary and this was the first thing that popped up....
Take away the elements in order of apparent non-importance Now.... how cool is that?
Do Never Test the Oblique Strategies.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on September 12, 2008, 02:14:39 PM
The important question is do you have any MP3s of your music to share with the rest of the class?
I'm lucky that (old dog that I am) I'm able to mix down in CD format. :roll:
I've never made or shared an MP3 version of any of my stuff yet... (my purpose is primarily to get the insistent little buggers out of my head... so I can make room for more...) but, if you could point me to a simple tutorial I would be willing to give it a shot.
Quote from: singer on September 12, 2008, 03:47:19 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on September 12, 2008, 02:14:39 PM
The important question is do you have any MP3s of your music to share with the rest of the class?
I'm lucky that (old dog that I am) I'm able to mix down in CD format. :roll:
I've never made or shared an MP3 version of any of my stuff yet... (my purpose is primarily to get the insistent little buggers out of my head... so I can make room for more...) but, if you could point me to a simple tutorial I would be willing to give it a shot.
LMNO is the (far) better engineer, I'd ask him.
Music always just flows through me. Same with all other art type things.
I know I am slow, but I only realized this year after reading several articles that Jimmy Page REALLY does believe that the reason Zep was good was due to black magic.
I think when the music flows through you people can believe weird things -- like Jimmy Page, like black gospel churches, etc.
for me, trying to chart out music based on theory only works for adding chord tones to jazz licks.
Quote from: singer on September 12, 2008, 03:47:19 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on September 12, 2008, 02:14:39 PM
The important question is do you have any MP3s of your music to share with the rest of the class?
I'm lucky that (old dog that I am) I'm able to mix down in CD format. :roll:
I've never made or shared an MP3 version of any of my stuff yet... (my purpose is primarily to get the insistent little buggers out of my head... so I can make room for more...) but, if you could point me to a simple tutorial I would be willing to give it a shot.
Step 1:
Load the CD into your computer. (Cut a hole in the box.)
Step 2:
Use iTunes or some other music program to copy your songs on to the computer in MP3 format. (Put your junk in that box.)
Step 3:
Go to http://mihd.net and upload the MP3s from your computer. (Make her open the box.)
And that's how you doooo iiiiit.... IT'S MY DICK IN A BOX!
Quote from: LMNO on September 12, 2008, 04:10:19 PM
Quote from: singer on September 12, 2008, 03:47:19 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on September 12, 2008, 02:14:39 PM
The important question is do you have any MP3s of your music to share with the rest of the class?
I'm lucky that (old dog that I am) I'm able to mix down in CD format. :roll:
I've never made or shared an MP3 version of any of my stuff yet... (my purpose is primarily to get the insistent little buggers out of my head... so I can make room for more...) but, if you could point me to a simple tutorial I would be willing to give it a shot.
Step 1:
Load the CD into your computer. (Cut a hole in the box.)
Step 2:
Use iTunes or some other music program to copy your songs on to the computer in MP3 format. (Put your junk in that box.)
Step 3:
Go to http://mihd.net and upload the MP3s from your computer. (Make her open the box.)
And that's how you doooo iiiiit.... IT'S MY DICK IN A BOX!
I just sent the link to my home... I'll give it a whack tonight after work....
(whacking Alphaboi's dick ITT?????)
There are inicidences in music history where what came out was pretty accidental. Black Sabbath comes to mind here, as they launched Metal music in a failed attempt to sound like Led Zepplin.
OK... here's 20 minutes of your life you'll never get back.
http://ifile.it/sezcktu (http://ifile.it/sezcktu) Gonna Make You Come Around
http://ifile.it/7icuzd1 (http://ifile.it/7icuzd1) Time (I Leave behind)
http://ifile.it/76rgntw (http://ifile.it/76rgntw) Skull Still Bone
Quote from: Requiem on September 13, 2008, 01:31:03 AM
There are inicidences in music history where what came out was pretty accidental. Black Sabbath comes to mind here, as they launched Metal music in a failed attempt to sound like Led Zepplin.
No. Black Sabbath's sound had little to do with Zepplin and more to do with Iommi losing bits of fingers from his fretting hand in a metal fabricating machine.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on September 15, 2008, 11:17:38 AM
Quote from: Requiem on September 13, 2008, 01:31:03 AM
There are inicidences in music history where what came out was pretty accidental. Black Sabbath comes to mind here, as they launched Metal music in a failed attempt to sound like Led Zepplin.
No. Black Sabbath's sound had little to do with Zepplin and more to do with Iommi losing bits of fingers from his fretting hand in a metal fabricating machine.
Indeed, Iommi owed more to Django Reinhardt for his style than to Jimmy Page.
Quote from: Dr. Payne on September 15, 2008, 12:20:08 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on September 15, 2008, 11:17:38 AM
Quote from: Requiem on September 13, 2008, 01:31:03 AM
There are inicidences in music history where what came out was pretty accidental. Black Sabbath comes to mind here, as they launched Metal music in a failed attempt to sound like Led Zepplin.
No. Black Sabbath's sound had little to do with Zepplin and more to do with Iommi losing bits of fingers from his fretting hand in a metal fabricating machine.
Indeed, Iommi owed more to Django Reinhardt for his style than to Jimmy Page.
and Sabbath owes a lot to not being able to repair Fender instruments in England. After a p-up in his Fender died, he started using his back-up SG.
Besides, I don't think Black Sabbath launched Metal music.
It was Judas Priest and Iron Maiden who really launched it.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on September 16, 2008, 07:07:27 PM
Besides, I don't think Black Sabbath launched Metal music.
It was Judas Priest and Iron Maiden who really launched it.
Point.
Sabbath wasn't so much metal as they were "Horror Rock".
Blue Cheer, spags.
Quote from: Requiem on September 13, 2008, 01:31:03 AM
There are inicidences in music history where what came out was pretty accidental. Black Sabbath comes to mind here, as they launched Metal music in a failed attempt to sound like Led Zepplin.
\
:nigel:
well, black sabbath does sound almost exactly like led zeppelin, especially all the high-pitched squealy guitars and pretentious shit like lutes and fucking harpsichords all over the place. also, between 1968 and 1975, getting Ozzy to wear anything besides frilly pink blouses and feathers was like peeling roadkill out of a buzzard's beak.
I think we're talking about the very start of Black Sabbath, where none of that kind of spaggotry was evident.
Quote from: vexati0n on September 20, 2008, 07:15:50 PM
well, black sabbath does sound almost exactly like led zeppelin
\
:nigel:
my sarcasm machine must need adjustment. nobody around here has picked up on my sarcasm for a few days.
nah, I shoulda caught that one. I was just looking for a fight yesterday.
the "lutes and harpsichords" bit shoulda given it away.
Quote from: vexati0n on March 11, 2008, 05:13:07 AM
this is a question i've been meaning to ask somebody for a while. i don't very often IRL because people think it's a stupid question or something. but, this is the internets, and all questions here are stupid.
musicians write/perform music, usually. but do you think that sometimes, like with truly great pieces of musical art, musicians aren't writing the music so much as like accidentally stumbling across the songs?
I have to say stumbling. But, it's not accidentally stumbling. It's planned.
Quote from: The Inexhaustible on September 25, 2008, 10:10:48 PM
Quote from: vexati0n on March 11, 2008, 05:13:07 AM
this is a question i've been meaning to ask somebody for a while. i don't very often IRL because people think it's a stupid question or something. but, this is the internets, and all questions here are stupid.
musicians write/perform music, usually. but do you think that sometimes, like with truly great pieces of musical art, musicians aren't writing the music so much as like accidentally stumbling across the songs?
I have to say stumbling. But, it's not accidentally stumbling. It's planned.
This sounds about right...It's how it works for me, anyhow. heh...
No good forcing anything, it sounds all wonky.
Quote from: The Littlest Ubermensch on March 11, 2008, 05:31:49 AM
Perhaps. A lot of the creative process isn't necessarily intentional, so much as it's stumbling across something interesting in the subconscious/collective unconscious/whatever.
I would tend to agree. All of my best songs seem to jump out at me from the ether.
Often at really strange times too... the last song I wrote came to me whilst eating a bowl of brocolli and watching Family Guy re-runs.
Quote from: Malcoid the Malcontent on December 14, 2008, 12:01:10 AM
Quote from: The Littlest Ubermensch on March 11, 2008, 05:31:49 AM
Perhaps. A lot of the creative process isn't necessarily intentional, so much as it's stumbling across something interesting in the subconscious/collective unconscious/whatever.
I would tend to agree. All of my best songs seem to jump out at me from the ether.
Often at really strange times too... the last song I wrote came to me whilst eating a bowl of brocolli and watching Family Guy re-runs.
Heh, I know what you mean. Last one came to me while stocking the shoe aisles at Target (wtf?)...embarrassing, but true.
Quote from: vexati0n on March 11, 2008, 05:13:07 AM
this is a question i've been meaning to ask somebody for a while. i don't very often IRL because people think it's a stupid question or something. but, this is the internets, and all questions here are stupid.
musicians write/perform music, usually. but do you think that sometimes, like with truly great pieces of musical art, musicians aren't writing the music so much as like accidentally stumbling across the songs?
i think the idea here, inspiration, comes from a sort of openness to spontaneity. if you're playing a musical instrument and remember to play each and every note while totally focusing on those little details the piece comes out sounding mechanistic and a bit contrived. when the musician lets go and plays .... is natural without trying to be natural i think that one could 'accidentally' stumble across songs.
like when trying to make a basket, if you think too hard about it you'll miss. if you just shoot the damn ball without trying too much it tends to just flow a bit.
i dunno, its kind of hard to describe right now.
I dont have a set way to write my music. Sometimes I will sit down and the track will be complete in an hour or two, other times it can take weeks. I also start a lot more tracks than I finish.
I have had a few tracks just land in my lap though (or brain), fully formed... Just had to figure out how to make it real. Write it down, feed it into an electronic sequencer... whatever...
I like improvising the best though. I put together loops and use them for a basis, then I can drop them in and cut them out at will, I use the BPM controller to speed up, slow down the music and play a keyboard over the top. The band just knows the key changes and all improvise their way through the soundscape. We started as a joke in the local university band comp, but were so popular that we got gigs out of it and found ourselves in like a real band.
I have it on good authority that this sort of thing takes fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency, and nice red uniforms.
You forgot "a fanatical devotion to the Pope."
FAIL.
OK I'll come in again.
i find that writing music is fun, but it's hard to do by myself. plus, if there's a collaborator or 3 involved, the finished project is always a lot more rewarding.
btw, i'm in the process of joining a band now, it's called "Key of Anger," but later when I show the noobs in the band that they can't live without me, I'll change its name to "Enrico and the Three Muffdumplings."
It is half by accident, half by design.
Practice prepares you for spontaneity.
Quote from: Antonymous on December 26, 2008, 03:20:04 AM
It is half by accident, half by design.
Practice prepares you for spontaneity.
mmm i like this
Quote from: Antonymous on December 26, 2008, 03:20:04 AM
It is half by accident, half by design.
Practice prepares you for spontaneity.
I would have to agree wholeheartedly. Without good technique it is impossible to express yourself to the maximum. After that, there is no 'best', just a bunch of people saying exactly what they mean. Mechanical only really happens when you're not feeling what you're playing. You can have complete control over what you're doing and still infuse it with your entire soul, and I think it's then true spontaneity occurs. Know thyself?
Depending on what you definition of "good technique" is I wouldn't say it is impossible. I spent 4 years in an Improv band back headed up by my college music professor. It was also a course a student could take for credit. There wasn't any actual instruction except for the first class where he basically just laid out the idea of improvisation which was to listen to what everyone else was doing and then making what you do fit. but you make it fit your way. Anyway, you had a range of people from experienced musicians to complete novices and I found that the novices could be just as expressive as trained musicians. In fact, I dare say some of the novices were in my mind more expressive in that they were not chained by convention.
It really depends on your definition of "technique" and as to what your sonic intentions are.
For example, D. Boon of the Minutemen had a sloppy technique, but his solos were fucking genius, because he was looking for the sound when what you're playing is almost but not quite overwhelming your ability to play it, which resulted in an edge-of-your-seat vibrancy and desperation to it. So, for his intentions, his technique was perfect.
Both you LMNO and Mr What's-His-Name have good points, but I wasn't intending technique to be synonymous with expression. Anybody can put heart and soul into what they're playing if they have the will. Take vocals for example, you can hear the expression of somebody singing but if they are always hitting the note slightly sharp or flat than they intended, then a lack of technique results and frustration of the singer in their inability to completely sing exactly what they meant, and the same applies with instruments. If NOT hitting the note correctly in the classical sense is what you intended, then yes sir, your technique is flawless.