Nein, du Führer!

[Kurt Christ]

I thought that "ye" and "thee" were the plural forms of "you" and "thou," respectively. Or perhaps we are thinking of the laguage at different point of time?

[atrasicarius]

According to my German teacher, Sie should be used basically whenever you address someone who's not a real close friend or family. People have to work together for literally years before they call eachother du. Now, that's all according to my German teacher, and having never actually been to Germany, I cant verify it.

[Nast]

as for research, i don't know, but i seem to remember there has been research showing that the language people speak doesn't actually affect their thinking or behavior in general.

but IMO there is no inherent "temperament" hidden inside language. in culture, yes, maybe, probably. language, no. it's a different mechanism.

But, does culture not impact language? Perhaps verbatim's correlation is not cause, but effect? I'm of the opinion that Korzybski's argument may have been based on seeing effects, rather than identifying causes...

I believe that culture does have a large impact on language. A language appears to have an impact on the perception of its speakers, because language is a part of culture, and culture certainly does influence your perceptions. It's sort of a chicken-or-the-egg scenario.  

A very good example of this culture/linguistic relationship is the Pirahã language. Pirahã is a language that has virtually no words to distinguish colors, numbers, or tenses to describe actions in the past. Their language is also extremely minimalistic, phonetically speaking. The people apparently lack the ability to grasp mathematics and instead use approximate measurements to deal with things.

[Nast]

I thought that "ye" and "thee" were the plural forms of "you" and "thou," respectively. Or perhaps we are thinking of the laguage at different point of time?

"Ye" and "you" were the plural forms of "thou" and "thee". "Ye" and "you", however, could be used as formal singular pronouns.

So, into modern English:

Thou - you
Thee - you (accusitive)

Ye - you (formal)
You - you (formal accusitive)

Ye - y'all
You - y'all (accusitive)

[e]

Whee, linguistics.

[Nast]

I know

Sometimes I really like it,
but other times it just gives me a headache. 

[e]

I am, alas, a word nerd.  I'll probably end up with a masters in either english lit or in linguistics (or hell, both).  I'm not sure I have quite enough of a logical rigorous mind to be a linguistics MASTAR, though.  Slightly more creative-brained that I am.

[Nast]

Yeah, I like linguistics because I really enjoy learning about languages and the cultures behind them. But I find that all of the formulaic standards and technical terms often times become daunting, and it does take a certain amount of dedication to get into. I'd much rather be able to understand and appreciate a language, rather than be able to identify its innermost mechanics.

[Kurt Christ]

I thought that "ye" and "thee" were the plural forms of "you" and "thou," respectively. Or perhaps we are thinking of the laguage at different point of time?

"Ye" and "you" were the plural forms of "thou" and "thee". "Ye" and "you", however, could be used as formal singular pronouns.

So, into modern English:

Thou - you
Thee - you (accusitive)

Ye - you (formal)
You - you (formal accusitive)

Ye - y'all
You - y'all (accusitive)

I conceed, good sir, to your superior liguistic knowledge.

[Nast]

Bah, I hardly know much. Most of my information comes from what I can scrounge from the internets.

[Kurt Christ]

Beats what I've gathered from High School English courses and a little bit of chance discovery.

[Reginald Ret]

The dutch formal 'u' is dying out i think.

I used to get confused all the time too but now i just use it when i want something from the one i'm talking to and i think they'll respond positively to it. (manipulative bastard=me)

i had another point but i forget, i forget again

[Verbal Mike]

God is addressed as du, no?

I think so. Not sure. I know in the bible, only du is used for everyone. I can't recall if this is because of the German of Luther's era was like that, or just because Sie did not map to any of the original languages and it would be a mistranslation (blasphemy!!!).

[Cain]

as for research, i don't know, but i seem to remember there has been research showing that the language people speak doesn't actually affect their thinking or behavior in general.

but IMO there is no inherent "temperament" hidden inside language. in culture, yes, maybe, probably. language, no. it's a different mechanism.

But, does culture not impact language? Perhaps verbatim's correlation is not cause, but effect? I'm of the opinion that Korzybski's argument may have been based on seeing effects, rather than identifying causes...

I believe that culture does have a large impact on language. A language appears to have an impact on the perception of its speakers, because language is a part of culture, and culture certainly does influence your perceptions. It's sort of a chicken-or-the-egg scenario. 

A very good example of this culture/linguistic relationship is the Pirahã language. Pirahã is a language that has virtually no words to distinguish colors, numbers, or tenses to describe actions in the past. Their language is also extremely minimalistic, phonetically speaking. The people apparently lack the ability to grasp mathematics and instead use approximate measurements to deal with things.

I've heard of these people before and read some interesting things on them.

Post upcoming, once my head is clear (give it 14 hours or so)

[Cramulus]

as for research, i don't know, but i seem to remember there has been research showing that the language people speak doesn't actually affect their thinking or behavior in general.

but IMO there is no inherent "temperament" hidden inside language. in culture, yes, maybe, probably. language, no. it's a different mechanism.

But, does culture not impact language? Perhaps verbatim's correlation is not cause, but effect? I'm of the opinion that Korzybski's argument may have been based on seeing effects, rather than identifying causes...

I believe that culture does have a large impact on language. A language appears to have an impact on the perception of its speakers, because language is a part of culture, and culture certainly does influence your perceptions. It's sort of a chicken-or-the-egg scenario.  

A very good example of this culture/linguistic relationship is the Pirahã language. Pirahã is a language that has virtually no words to distinguish colors, numbers, or tenses to describe actions in the past. Their language is also extremely minimalistic, phonetically speaking. The people apparently lack the ability to grasp mathematics and instead use approximate measurements to deal with things.

Piraha is fascinating... if it's real. IIRC there's only one westerner who speaks it. So if he's telling the truth and fully understands it, it really is quite fascinating.