Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Two vast and trunkless legs of stone => Topic started by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 12, 2012, 05:33:21 PM

Title: On behalf of aspies
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 12, 2012, 05:33:21 PM
I would like to ask us, we, the Internet population of peers with an overlap of common interests, generally known as "Pee Dee dot com", come together to rethink our usage of the term "aspie" to describe every amusingly incorrect pedant who is too hung up on their own ego to admit when they make a mistake.

I freely admit that until about two weeks ago I used, and would have defended the use of the term, and the use of the term assburger (which I still might use and/or find defensible, I haven't decided yet). I would have defended it thusly: that it is not actually making fun of people with mild autism, but making fun of people who display stereotypical characteristics often ascribed to mild autism, AKA Asperger's syndrome, such as lack of empathy, pedantry, and displaying a poor understanding of normal social interactions. There is, however, one thing all these people share which is not at all typical of autism, which is having an ego so fragile they cannot admit error. In my experience, autistic people may make social blunders, but they care more about being correct than being "right", and will readily admit factual errors. If they make them, which is not terribly common because they like to confirm facts before they insist on them.

Let me explain what changed my mind. About two weeks ago, Telarus, our fellow PD spag and also a local PDX spag, commented that one of our other local fellows, a spag called Kassianne, finds our use of the term "aspie" to describe egobound assholes with shitty social skills insulting and degrading. Kassianne is autistic. She is also lovely and fun and insightful. At one point in time, I would probably have responded with the sentiment that she needs to grow a sense of humor or somesuch shite, but in reflection on a lot of the conversations we've had here over the past year or so, intelligent and insightful and screeching and abrasive conversations in which I felt like all of us confronted some of our ugly habits and assumptions and got a little more bipedal, I concluded that Kassianne is right. It is insulting and degrading. I thought about all the autistic people in my life, including my ex-husband, my daughter, my brother, my good friend's son, and Kassianne, and I have decided that I am not comfortable using that term anymore.
Title: Re: On behalf of aspies
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on November 12, 2012, 05:36:04 PM
I'm on board.  It's too much like saying "cunt", etc, now that I think about it, and it - as you say - isn't even an accurate use of the term.

Gonna use "Assburger" til we think of something more appropriate.

Mostly because the word "assburger" makes me giggle, because I am an idiot.
Title: Re: On behalf of aspies
Post by: Pope Pixie Pickle on November 12, 2012, 05:40:40 PM
Quote from: CAKE on November 12, 2012, 05:33:21 PM
I would like to ask us, we, the Internet population of peers with an overlap of common interests, generally known as "Pee Dee dot com", come together to rethink our usage of the term "aspie" to describe every amusingly incorrect pedant who is too hung up on their own ego to admit when they make a mistake.

I freely admit that until about two weeks ago I used, and would have defended the use of the term, and the use of the term assburger (which I still might use and/or find defensible, I haven't decided yet). I would have defended it thusly: that it is not actually making fun of people with mild autism, but making fun of people who display stereotypical characteristics often ascribed to mild autism, AKA Asperger's syndrome, such as lack of empathy, pedantry, and displaying a poor understanding of normal social interactions. There is, however, one thing all these people share which is not at all typical of autism, which is having an ego so fragile they cannot admit error. In my experience, autistic people may make social blunders, but they care more about being correct than being "right", and will readily admit factual errors. If they make them, which is not terribly common because they like to confirm facts before they insist on them.

Let me explain what changed my mind. About two weeks ago, Telarus, our fellow PD spag and also a local PDX spag, commented that one of our other local fellows, a spag called Kassianne, finds our use of the term "aspie" to describe egobound assholes with shitty social skills insulting and degrading. Kassianne is autistic. She is also lovely and fun and insightful. At one point in time, I would probably have responded with the sentiment that she needs to grow a sense of humor or somesuch shite, but in reflection on a lot of the conversations we've had here over the past year or so, intelligent and insightful and screeching and abrasive conversations in which I felt like all of us confronted some of our ugly habits and assumptions and got a little more bipedal, I concluded that Kassianne is right. It is insulting and degrading. I thought about all the autistic people in my life, including my ex-husband, my daughter, my brother, my good friend's son, and Kassianne, and I have decided that I am not comfortable using that term anymore.

SECONDED!
Title: Re: On behalf of aspies
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on November 12, 2012, 05:49:08 PM
Other thing is, the term "aspie" itself should be a warning sign, as a shortened, derogatory version of "Aspger's Syndrome victim".

One thing, however:  I have been using the term "retarded" for 30+ years to describe someone who CAN think, but WON'T.  For people who CAN'T think properly due to brain damage of one sort or another, I say "brain damaged". 

You People can't make me give up the term "retarded".
Title: Re: On behalf of aspies
Post by: Juana on November 12, 2012, 06:00:39 PM
I was having this very train of thought recently. So, thirded.
Title: Re: On behalf of aspies
Post by: LMNO on November 12, 2012, 06:36:08 PM
Two points of clarifiaction needed:

One: The person who has self-diagnosed (i.e. they looked it up on Wikepedia and decided it applies to them) themselves as having Asperger's;

Two: Someone who actually has Asperger's, and continues to act like a dick even when we make an attempt to help.
Title: Re: On behalf of aspies
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 12, 2012, 06:44:26 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 12, 2012, 05:36:04 PM
I'm on board.  It's too much like saying "cunt", etc, now that I think about it, and it - as you say - isn't even an accurate use of the term.

Gonna use "Assburger" til we think of something more appropriate.

Mostly because the word "assburger" makes me giggle, because I am an idiot.

Yeah, I can't get past the funny, either. Assburger is just a funny word. :lol: Yes, I have the maturity of a 12-year-old.
Title: Re: On behalf of aspies
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 12, 2012, 06:45:59 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on November 12, 2012, 06:36:08 PM
Two points of clarifiaction needed:

One: The person who has self-diagnosed (i.e. they looked it up on Wikepedia and decided it applies to them) themselves as having Asperger's;

Two: Someone who actually has Asperger's, and continues to act like a dick even when we make an attempt to help.

Why do we need those points of clarification? Seems like "internet diagnosis, LOL" covers the first base, and I'm unclear on the relevance of the second one as I'm only aware of that having happened once here, and we already have a word for it; IANAR.
Title: Re: On behalf of aspies
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on November 12, 2012, 06:47:16 PM
Quote from: CAKE on November 12, 2012, 06:45:59 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on November 12, 2012, 06:36:08 PM
Two points of clarifiaction needed:

One: The person who has self-diagnosed (i.e. they looked it up on Wikepedia and decided it applies to them) themselves as having Asperger's;

Two: Someone who actually has Asperger's, and continues to act like a dick even when we make an attempt to help.

Why do we need those points of clarification? Seems like "internet diagnosis, LOL" covers the first base, and I'm unclear on the relevance of the second one as I'm only aware of that having happened once here, and we already have a word for it; IANAR.

IANAR was, IIRC, self-diagnosed.  It was his cover for having a head full of bad wiring, which is another issue altogether.
Title: Re: On behalf of aspies
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 12, 2012, 07:01:59 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 12, 2012, 06:47:16 PM
Quote from: CAKE on November 12, 2012, 06:45:59 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on November 12, 2012, 06:36:08 PM
Two points of clarifiaction needed:

One: The person who has self-diagnosed (i.e. they looked it up on Wikepedia and decided it applies to them) themselves as having Asperger's;

Two: Someone who actually has Asperger's, and continues to act like a dick even when we make an attempt to help.

Why do we need those points of clarification? Seems like "internet diagnosis, LOL" covers the first base, and I'm unclear on the relevance of the second one as I'm only aware of that having happened once here, and we already have a word for it; IANAR.

IANAR was, IIRC, self-diagnosed.  It was his cover for having a head full of bad wiring, which is another issue altogether.

Yeah, dude is all kinds of messed up. Internet self-diagnosis of Aspergers is just the tip of the iceberg. Seems like he's got a personality disorder, if you ask me.
Title: Re: On behalf of aspies
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 12, 2012, 07:06:08 PM
I have to say, the only autistic people I have actually met who were dicks were the ones who were dicks who happen to be autistic. Most of the ones I know make social blunders because they don't pick up on nonverbal or emotional cues very well, and then feel awful about it, but they aren't outright dicks. They also tend to be shy, because they're self-conscious about making social blunders.

Kind of the opposite of the IANARs of the world.
Title: Re: On behalf of aspies
Post by: LMNO on November 12, 2012, 07:12:13 PM
I guess I was trying to say that we've adopted the word "aspie" more as shorthand for "socially inept asshole hiding behind self-diagnosis", more or less divorcing it from "functionally autistic", and it's pretty clear we wouldn't mock an actual Asperger's diagnosis purely out-of-hand, so we probably don't have to scourge ourselves for using it.

But then I realized I was actively looking for something to argue about, and generally avoiding the point of the OP.  Which would pretty much put me into the catagory of people I'm criticizing.  Which made me chuckle and shake my head.


LMNO
-monkey in the mirror.
Title: Re: On behalf of aspies
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on November 12, 2012, 07:19:18 PM
Quote from: CAKE on November 12, 2012, 07:01:59 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 12, 2012, 06:47:16 PM
Quote from: CAKE on November 12, 2012, 06:45:59 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on November 12, 2012, 06:36:08 PM
Two points of clarifiaction needed:

One: The person who has self-diagnosed (i.e. they looked it up on Wikepedia and decided it applies to them) themselves as having Asperger's;

Two: Someone who actually has Asperger's, and continues to act like a dick even when we make an attempt to help.

Why do we need those points of clarification? Seems like "internet diagnosis, LOL" covers the first base, and I'm unclear on the relevance of the second one as I'm only aware of that having happened once here, and we already have a word for it; IANAR.

IANAR was, IIRC, self-diagnosed.  It was his cover for having a head full of bad wiring, which is another issue altogether.

Yeah, dude is all kinds of messed up. Internet self-diagnosis of Aspergers is just the tip of the iceberg. Seems like he's got a personality disorder, if you ask me.

We Doktors refer to that disorder as "Being a dick".

Title: Re: On behalf of aspies
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on November 12, 2012, 07:19:47 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on November 12, 2012, 07:12:13 PM
I guess I was trying to say that we've adopted the word "aspie" more as shorthand for "socially inept asshole hiding behind self-diagnosis", more or less divorcing it from "functionally autistic", and it's pretty clear we wouldn't mock an actual Asperger's diagnosis purely out-of-hand, so we probably don't have to scourge ourselves for using it.

But then I realized I was actively looking for something to argue about, and generally avoiding the point of the OP.  Which would pretty much put me into the catagory of people I'm criticizing.  Which made me chuckle and shake my head.


LMNO
-monkey in the mirror.

I'd giggle a bit, but this is the FIRST thread of this type where I didn't argue right off the bat.

:lol:
Title: Re: On behalf of aspies
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 12, 2012, 07:20:51 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 12, 2012, 07:19:18 PM
Quote from: CAKE on November 12, 2012, 07:01:59 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 12, 2012, 06:47:16 PM
Quote from: CAKE on November 12, 2012, 06:45:59 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on November 12, 2012, 06:36:08 PM
Two points of clarifiaction needed:

One: The person who has self-diagnosed (i.e. they looked it up on Wikepedia and decided it applies to them) themselves as having Asperger's;

Two: Someone who actually has Asperger's, and continues to act like a dick even when we make an attempt to help.

Why do we need those points of clarification? Seems like "internet diagnosis, LOL" covers the first base, and I'm unclear on the relevance of the second one as I'm only aware of that having happened once here, and we already have a word for it; IANAR.

IANAR was, IIRC, self-diagnosed.  It was his cover for having a head full of bad wiring, which is another issue altogether.

Yeah, dude is all kinds of messed up. Internet self-diagnosis of Aspergers is just the tip of the iceberg. Seems like he's got a personality disorder, if you ask me.

We Doktors refer to that disorder as "Being a dick".

:lulz:
Title: Re: On behalf of aspies
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 12, 2012, 07:21:38 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 12, 2012, 07:19:47 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on November 12, 2012, 07:12:13 PM
I guess I was trying to say that we've adopted the word "aspie" more as shorthand for "socially inept asshole hiding behind self-diagnosis", more or less divorcing it from "functionally autistic", and it's pretty clear we wouldn't mock an actual Asperger's diagnosis purely out-of-hand, so we probably don't have to scourge ourselves for using it.

But then I realized I was actively looking for something to argue about, and generally avoiding the point of the OP.  Which would pretty much put me into the catagory of people I'm criticizing.  Which made me chuckle and shake my head.


LMNO
-monkey in the mirror.

I'd giggle a bit, but this is the FIRST thread of this type where I didn't argue right off the bat.

:lol:

:lol: We've all made progress in the bipedal direction, I think.
Title: Re: On behalf of aspies
Post by: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on November 12, 2012, 07:28:07 PM
 
:responsible:
Title: Re: On behalf of aspies
Post by: Don Coyote on November 12, 2012, 08:27:28 PM
would ass-pie be ok?
Title: Re: On behalf of aspies
Post by: Phox on November 12, 2012, 09:37:26 PM
You know, I'm not personally comfortable with either assburger or ass-pie as insults, because it kind of reminds of things like "ghey". Seems a lot like rationalizing by saying "But see, I didn't MEAN Asperger/aspie/gay, it's a completely different thing. If you took offense, that's your problem." I dunno.
Title: Re: On behalf of aspies
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on November 12, 2012, 09:51:48 PM
Quote from: Doktor D. Jennifer Phox on November 12, 2012, 09:37:26 PM
You know, I'm not personally comfortable with either assburger or ass-pie as insults, because it kind of reminds of things like "ghey". Seems a lot like rationalizing by saying "But see, I didn't MEAN Asperger/aspie/gay, it's a completely different thing. If you took offense, that's your problem." I dunno.

How about "Rogerites"?  Because they are my people.
Title: Re: On behalf of aspies
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on November 12, 2012, 09:52:54 PM
Sounds fair enough. I don't know shit about proper medical assburgers but I'm guessing someone who has it might turn up here one day and take the hump cos we're calling random assholes Captain Aspie and the like.

At the same time, I'm aware that this whole PC trip has the potential to spiral into dumbfuck central like it has in the real world. I'm comfortable with the fact that a lot of things I say are likely to offend oversensitive fuckheads. That's not the intention but I do consider it a fringe benefit.
Title: Re: On behalf of aspies
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on November 12, 2012, 09:54:14 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on November 12, 2012, 09:52:54 PM
At the same time, I'm aware that this whole PC trip has the potential to spiral into dumbfuck central like it has in the real world.

I was thinking that was a possibility myself, but I'm up for ANY PROGRAM.

Because if I have the choice between sounding like a teabagger and sounding oversensitive, I'll err on the side of oversensitive.

Title: Re: On behalf of aspies
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on November 12, 2012, 10:01:59 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 12, 2012, 09:54:14 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on November 12, 2012, 09:52:54 PM
At the same time, I'm aware that this whole PC trip has the potential to spiral into dumbfuck central like it has in the real world.

I was thinking that was a possibility myself, but I'm up for ANY PROGRAM.

Because if I have the choice between sounding like a teabagger and sounding oversensitive, I'll err on the side of oversensitive.

Like I said, this thread seems fair enough but I'm also aware that it could open the floodgates to a whole plethora of PC bullshit. Personally I'd rather it didn't.
Title: Re: On behalf of aspies
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on November 12, 2012, 10:13:44 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on November 12, 2012, 10:01:59 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 12, 2012, 09:54:14 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on November 12, 2012, 09:52:54 PM
At the same time, I'm aware that this whole PC trip has the potential to spiral into dumbfuck central like it has in the real world.

I was thinking that was a possibility myself, but I'm up for ANY PROGRAM.

Because if I have the choice between sounding like a teabagger and sounding oversensitive, I'll err on the side of oversensitive.

Like I said, this thread seems fair enough but I'm also aware that it could open the floodgates to a whole plethora of PC bullshit. Personally I'd rather it didn't.

Well, I'm gonna find out.  We're doing SCIENCE and shit.
Title: Re: On behalf of aspies
Post by: Phox on November 12, 2012, 10:48:36 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 12, 2012, 09:51:48 PM
Quote from: Doktor D. Jennifer Phox on November 12, 2012, 09:37:26 PM
You know, I'm not personally comfortable with either assburger or ass-pie as insults, because it kind of reminds of things like "ghey". Seems a lot like rationalizing by saying "But see, I didn't MEAN Asperger/aspie/gay, it's a completely different thing. If you took offense, that's your problem." I dunno.

How about "Rogerites"?  Because they are my people.
Rogerites?  :lulz:

That I can get behind.
Title: Re: On behalf of aspies
Post by: Juana on November 12, 2012, 10:52:34 PM
Sorry, Pent. :lol:

IMO, making an effort to be 'PC' is making an effort not to be a bully, because making racist/homophobic/abelist/etc. jokes or using them as insults is bullying-type behavior. Not only is it a lazy source of humor, it's not actually insulting the asshole who is on the receiving end of the insult, it's insulting a perfectly innocent group of people (who don't actually need to be reminded that they are second class, Other, and undesirable members of society).


Quote from: Doktor D. Jennifer Phox on November 12, 2012, 10:48:36 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 12, 2012, 09:51:48 PM
Quote from: Doktor D. Jennifer Phox on November 12, 2012, 09:37:26 PM
You know, I'm not personally comfortable with either assburger or ass-pie as insults, because it kind of reminds of things like "ghey". Seems a lot like rationalizing by saying "But see, I didn't MEAN Asperger/aspie/gay, it's a completely different thing. If you took offense, that's your problem." I dunno.

How about "Rogerites"?  Because they are my people.
Rogerites?  :lulz:

That I can get behind.
Ditto. :lulz:
Title: Re: On behalf of aspies
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on November 12, 2012, 11:11:34 PM
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on November 12, 2012, 10:52:34 PM
Sorry, Pent. :lol:

IMO, making an effort to be 'PC' is making an effort not to be a bully, because making racist/homophobic/abelist/etc. jokes or using them as insults is bullying-type behavior. Not only is it a lazy source of humor, it's not actually insulting the asshole who is on the receiving end of the insult, it's insulting a perfectly innocent group of people (who don't actually need to be reminded that they are second class, Other, and undesirable members of society).



Please don't think I disagree with the original idea. It was a perfectly good one but, like most perfectly good ideas, human beings implemented it and turned it into a retarded parody of newspeak. Actually, now that I think about it, even the original idea was a bit fucking dumb - changing the words doesn't change the hate. It was only ever destined to be as effective as burying your head in the sand and praying for unicorns :lulz:
Title: Re: On behalf of aspies
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on November 12, 2012, 11:26:30 PM
So, it's settled:  Rogerites.

I'm not giving up "retards", though.

Not because I'm stubborn, but because:

1.  I've explained the meaning I use, and the alternate language I use for people with actual brain damage, and

2.  It's the perfect word for the type of person I'm talking about.
Title: Re: On behalf of aspies
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 12, 2012, 11:39:22 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 12, 2012, 11:26:30 PM
So, it's settled:  Rogerites.

I'm not giving up "retards", though.

Not because I'm stubborn, but because:

1.  I've explained the meaning I use, and the alternate language I use for people with actual brain damage, and

2.  It's the perfect word for the type of person I'm talking about.

"Retard" also is a word that already has multiple meanings, and is not specific to people with mental retardation.

As an aside, the standard in psychology is still to call it "mental retardation", which is taking a little getting used to.
Title: Re: On behalf of aspies
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 12, 2012, 11:42:41 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 12, 2012, 09:54:14 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on November 12, 2012, 09:52:54 PM
At the same time, I'm aware that this whole PC trip has the potential to spiral into dumbfuck central like it has in the real world.

I was thinking that was a possibility myself, but I'm up for ANY PROGRAM.

Because if I have the choice between sounding like a teabagger and sounding oversensitive, I'll err on the side of oversensitive.

This. And also, for the most part, I've observed that the heart of the anti-PC thing is "OOK OOK, I DON'T WANNA CHANGE BECAUSE LEARNING NEW THINGS IS HARD, WE ALWAYS DUN CALLED 'EM KIKES AND I AIN'T GONNA STOP NOW JUS CUZ IT'S UN-PC"
Title: Re: On behalf of aspies
Post by: East Coast Hustle on November 12, 2012, 11:57:11 PM
I gotta admit that I am always instinctively against any sort of PC-speak. Not because I hate people for things out of their control or am not sensitive to the plight of the aforementioned groups, but because I find that, outside of the confines of PD, most of the people who advocate it are not truly concerned with the plights of those groups but rather are self-righteous "I'm looking for a fight" shitheels who are right at the top of the list of "kinds of people I really like to piss off". That said, I also find that I already tend not to use such terms in casual conversation UNLESS I am confronted with exactly that type of shitheel, so I don't think I'm being hateful in my heart when I use an un-PC term for the specific purpose of twisting the knickers of the thought police.
Title: Re: On behalf of aspies
Post by: East Coast Hustle on November 12, 2012, 11:58:03 PM
Also, what Roger said. I'm not ever giving up "retard" and anyone who tells me I should is, well, a fucking retard.
Title: Re: On behalf of aspies
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on November 13, 2012, 12:03:21 AM
Quote from: East Coast Hustle on November 12, 2012, 11:57:11 PM
I gotta admit that I am always instinctively against any sort of PC-speak. Not because I hate people for things out of their control or am not sensitive to the plight of the aforementioned groups, but because I find that, outside of the confines of PD, most of the people who advocate it are not truly concerned with the plights of those groups but rather are self-righteous "I'm looking for a fight" shitheels who are right at the top of the list of "kinds of people I really like to piss off". That said, I also find that I already tend not to use such terms in casual conversation UNLESS I am confronted with exactly that type of shitheel, so I don't think I'm being hateful in my heart when I use an un-PC term for the specific purpose of twisting the knickers of the thought police.

I agree, but I don't think that's what's happening here.
Title: Re: On behalf of aspies
Post by: East Coast Hustle on November 13, 2012, 12:05:53 AM
Oh, I know. That's why I specifically made the exception. When PD does something like this, it's because someone's thought it through and come to a reasonable position supportable by logic. That's so rare in the real world as to be a statistical non-entity.
Title: Re: On behalf of aspies
Post by: Phox on November 13, 2012, 12:08:49 AM
Quote from: East Coast Hustle on November 13, 2012, 12:05:53 AM
Oh, I know. That's why I specifically made the exception. When PD does something like this, it's because someone's thought it through and come to a reasonable position supportable by logic. That's so rare in the real world as to be a statistical non-entity.
Can't agree with you more, ECH.
Title: Re: On behalf of aspies
Post by: East Coast Hustle on November 13, 2012, 12:34:00 AM
Mostly, I was just explaining why I'm always the guy who says "FUCK THAT SHIT" when one of these threads pops up. It took me a while to understand the reasoning myself, and to understand the distinction between these discussions at PD and how it plays out in meatspace.
Title: Re: On behalf of aspies
Post by: Phox on November 13, 2012, 12:38:15 AM
Quote from: East Coast Hustle on November 13, 2012, 12:34:00 AM
Mostly, I was just explaining why I'm always the guy who says "FUCK THAT SHIT" when one of these threads pops up. It took me a while to understand the reasoning myself, and to understand the distinction between these discussions at PD and how it plays out in meatspace.
Yeah, I totally get that. There is such a thing as taking PC too far, and more often than not, that's exactly what happens.
Title: Re: On behalf of aspies
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 13, 2012, 03:01:47 AM
Quote from: East Coast Hustle on November 12, 2012, 11:57:11 PM
I gotta admit that I am always instinctively against any sort of PC-speak. Not because I hate people for things out of their control or am not sensitive to the plight of the aforementioned groups, but because I find that, outside of the confines of PD, most of the people who advocate it are not truly concerned with the plights of those groups but rather are self-righteous "I'm looking for a fight" shitheels who are right at the top of the list of "kinds of people I really like to piss off". That said, I also find that I already tend not to use such terms in casual conversation UNLESS I am confronted with exactly that type of shitheel, so I don't think I'm being hateful in my heart when I use an un-PC term for the specific purpose of twisting the knickers of the thought police.

This is also true.
Title: Re: On behalf of aspies
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on November 13, 2012, 03:20:55 AM
My principle reason for agreeing is that the term is inaccurate.
Title: Re: On behalf of aspies
Post by: Cainad (dec.) on November 13, 2012, 05:58:00 AM
Quote from: CAKE on November 12, 2012, 05:33:21 PM
I would like to ask us, we, the Internet population of peers with an overlap of common interests, generally known as "Pee Dee dot com", come together to rethink our usage of the term "aspie" to describe every amusingly incorrect pedant who is too hung up on their own ego to admit when they make a mistake.

I freely admit that until about two weeks ago I used, and would have defended the use of the term, and the use of the term assburger (which I still might use and/or find defensible, I haven't decided yet). I would have defended it thusly: that it is not actually making fun of people with mild autism, but making fun of people who display stereotypical characteristics often ascribed to mild autism, AKA Asperger's syndrome, such as lack of empathy, pedantry, and displaying a poor understanding of normal social interactions. There is, however, one thing all these people share which is not at all typical of autism, which is having an ego so fragile they cannot admit error. In my experience, autistic people may make social blunders, but they care more about being correct than being "right", and will readily admit factual errors. If they make them, which is not terribly common because they like to confirm facts before they insist on them.

Let me explain what changed my mind. About two weeks ago, Telarus, our fellow PD spag and also a local PDX spag, commented that one of our other local fellows, a spag called Kassianne, finds our use of the term "aspie" to describe egobound assholes with shitty social skills insulting and degrading. Kassianne is autistic. She is also lovely and fun and insightful. At one point in time, I would probably have responded with the sentiment that she needs to grow a sense of humor or somesuch shite, but in reflection on a lot of the conversations we've had here over the past year or so, intelligent and insightful and screeching and abrasive conversations in which I felt like all of us confronted some of our ugly habits and assumptions and got a little more bipedal, I concluded that Kassianne is right. It is insulting and degrading. I thought about all the autistic people in my life, including my ex-husband, my daughter, my brother, my good friend's son, and Kassianne, and I have decided that I am not comfortable using that term anymore.

Quoting the OP because I want to say:

Thank you for this, Nigel. The fact that "aspie" has been attached to some of the most egregiously frustrating and intolerable personalities ever to post on this forum is something that I've been uncomfortable with for quite a while. It's not something I brought up often (if ever) because it simply didn't seem to be worth the fight over which words we should or shouldn't use. Maybe I should have had the balls to say so, I dunno.

I have a younger brother who suffers from pretty classic Asperger's Syndrome. In his areas of interest, he's probably one of the most knowledgeable and focused people you'll ever meet. However, it is abundantly clear to anyone holding a conversation with him that he's not quite "normal." It is one of the saddest things I've seen, to see him realize too late that he's offended or hurt someone because he doesn't naturally pick up on the social cues and subtexts that most of us rely on to communicate. Only in the last few years, as he enters late adolescence and gains the resulting increase in cognitive ability, has he been able to supplement his shortcomings through conscious effort.

Even if they are terrible at showing it or recognizing it, people with Asperger's Syndrome DO feel empathy. They DO want to be liked and accepted by the people around them, and are in the unique position where "just be yourself!" is actually probably the worst advice to help them accomplish that.
Title: Re: On behalf of aspies
Post by: Placid Dingo on November 13, 2012, 11:10:47 AM
I'm down with the whole thing. I don't think PD is the kind of place that will have much trouble developing new replacement insults to mock horrible or irritating human beings.

Aside; Cainad, I think generally 'be yourself' is pretty limited advice. Generally people asking how to act WANT to be aware of social cues because doing what comes naturally isn't working for them.
Title: Re: On behalf of aspies
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on November 13, 2012, 12:35:43 PM
Quote from: Placid Dingo on November 13, 2012, 11:10:47 AM
I'm down with the whole thing. I don't think PD is the kind of place that will have much trouble developing new replacement insults to mock horrible or irritating human beings.

Aside; Cainad, I think generally 'be yourself' is pretty limited advice. Generally people asking how to act WANT to be aware of social cues because doing what comes naturally isn't working for them.

I always figured the "be yourself" schtick was intended as more of a confidence booster for insecure people than actual advice.
Title: Re: On behalf of aspies
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 13, 2012, 05:12:56 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 13, 2012, 03:20:55 AM
My principle reason for agreeing is that the term is inaccurate.

See now, THAT'S real Asperger's-type behavior. :lol: