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An article I found + resulting ideas

Started by The Littlest Ubermensch, May 03, 2008, 06:35:40 AM

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Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Also, really, what Ratatosk said.

To do some parroting of my own, I read once something along the lines of, "Each enlightenment is only good one time, for the person who discovers it". In a way, I think that's really another way of phrasing "think for yourself, Schmuck". Either way, it really stuck with me, and I personally find it a great reminder that what seems profound and important to me may be meaningless for others, and that's ok.

Anyway, I think that if someone finds their own enlightenment in dissemination of information, that's great. On the other hand, if I find myself associated with a group who puts a lot of energy into spreading the word of Discordianism, I will probably not be comfortable with that, and will end the association.

After all, the only thing Seventh-Day Adventists are doing when they go door to door is "informing people of their options".
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: Cain on May 05, 2008, 12:56:11 PM


Oh, and thanks for the vote of confidence.


Also, what the fuck is this "vote of confidence" bullshit? What are you trying to say, here? Am I supposed to blindly agree with what someone else says or wants JUST BECAUSE THEY'RE DISCORDIAN?

Please explain, I'm really interested.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


e

Quote from: Nigel on May 05, 2008, 06:27:38 PM
Quote from: Cain on May 05, 2008, 12:56:11 PM


Oh, and thanks for the vote of confidence.


Also, what the fuck is this "vote of confidence" bullshit? What are you trying to say, here? Am I supposed to blindly agree with what someone else says or wants JUST BECAUSE THEY'RE DISCORDIAN?

Please explain, I'm really interested.

Yes, it's just like democracy, America, and the war on terrorism.

Anyone who isn't for [ideology] must clearly be against [ideology].  You godless commie traitor heathen mutant.  The Computer will terminate you and your clones.

Verbal Mike

I think it's possible to utilize the organizational power of small local groups without making it about conversions. It looks to me like the general strategy of, for instance, OMGASM, is to MF society at large and hope interesting people find PDCOM and other sites, or get interested in Discordianism. This seems so far a good strategy and I'm fucking awed at Colbertgasm's success. And I'm in no position to criticize this because (a) I've done practically nothing for the project and (b) if I have a better idea I'll go and start my own GASM or whatever. But just thinking along some more abstract lines now, what if the focus was instead on the local effect? What if the idea was to create small local groups?
Well, obviously OMGASM is about large-scale things because OMGASM is about harnessing the internet to bring more brains together and easily get lots of people who are far apart to do something that requires lots of people. So OMGASM is per necessity not the kind of project that will *create* small localized groups. But imagine if we magically each had a 5- or 23-person cabal (ha ha) and could plan GASMs around that assumption.
Yeah, "what if", it's a bullshit question and these are my feverish musings now. My only point, if I have one, is that small local groups are an extremely powerful thing, and that we shouldn't write them off just because the most successful examples happen to proselytize. You know what Gladwell's first example was in TTP? The rise in popularity of The Ya-Ya Sisterhood. That book spread like wildfire because of book clubs - not your model of evil proselytization. It spread because the author would tour the US giving readings and signing sessions, and she's an actress so apparently her readings were particularly charming. In each town, or almost each town, one woman or more of the few that attended these readings would be impressed enough to get her book club to read the book. Because of the book's particular appeal to a particularly broad range of book club demographics, the book clubs loved it and even grew because of it (or something) and somehow this turned the book into a massive bestseller and feature film. I don't remember how.
I should stop now, I'm rambling.

-Verb,
doesn't like being sick
Unless stated otherwise, feel free to copy or reproduce any text I post anywhere and any way you like. I will never throw a hissy-fit over it, promise.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

A lot of my sentiment is in response to the original post"

Quote from: The Littlest Ubermensch on May 03, 2008, 06:35:40 AM
I just read this article on Rick Warren's church though the magic of Stumbleupon, and it got me thinking: how could we adopt the "small, personal group" model that has worked so well for evangelical Christians, Communists, and AA?

Did you read the article? What struck me about it is that it seems to be about GROWTH. Spreading the word.

Quote
With most decentralized movements/organizations, it seems like the small communal element is key to their success with spreading.

Do you see what I'm responding to, and what I'm objecting to?

I think that the cabal system is great, especially because it IS so decentralized and unorganized and each cell is it's own entity, free to make its mission whatever they want. Networking is grand, too, and larger group projects... if I didn't think so I wouldn't be here.

The idea of tackling, as a group, a question like "how do we facilitate the spread of Discordianism", on the other hand, makes me deeply uncomfortable, to the point where I want to make my opinion about it clear up front. I won't participate. If other people do, I will probably mostly ignore it, as I have thus far mostly ignored other efforts to "recruit". If it becomes more pervasive than I'm comfortable with, I'll simply find something else to do with my time.

Just sayin'.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


hooplala

I don't see what the problem is here, exactly.  Either you want to help out, or don't . . . Seems pretty simple.

Where did all the anger come from?
"Soon all of us will have special names" — Professor Brian O'Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." — Bob Dylan?

"Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)"
— Walt Whitman

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: Hoopla on May 05, 2008, 11:11:04 PM
I don't see what the problem is here, exactly.  Either you want to help out, or don't . . . Seems pretty simple.

Where did all the anger come from?

I don't, and I said so. Then some people were all "you're missing the point" and I was all "no, this is my point".

I think what you are interpreting as anger is what I interpret as an expression of discomfort.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Roo

Quote from: Nigel on May 05, 2008, 10:53:05 PM
A lot of my sentiment is in response to the original post"

Quote from: The Littlest Ubermensch on May 03, 2008, 06:35:40 AM
I just read this article on Rick Warren's church though the magic of Stumbleupon, and it got me thinking: how could we adopt the "small, personal group" model that has worked so well for evangelical Christians, Communists, and AA?

Did you read the article? What struck me about it is that it seems to be about GROWTH. Spreading the word.

Quote
With most decentralized movements/organizations, it seems like the small communal element is key to their success with spreading.

Do you see what I'm responding to, and what I'm objecting to?

I think that the cabal system is great, especially because it IS so decentralized and unorganized and each cell is it's own entity, free to make its mission whatever they want. Networking is grand, too, and larger group projects... if I didn't think so I wouldn't be here.

The idea of tackling, as a group, a question like "how do we facilitate the spread of Discordianism", on the other hand, makes me deeply uncomfortable, to the point where I want to make my opinion about it clear up front. I won't participate. If other people do, I will probably mostly ignore it, as I have thus far mostly ignored other efforts to "recruit". If it becomes more pervasive than I'm comfortable with, I'll simply find something else to do with my time.

Just sayin'.

I think the issue here is less about "spreading the word", and more about how to reach the right people...you know, the ones that are Discordian at heart, but just haven't heard of it yet.

OTOH, I get the sense that some people are uncomfortable with the idea of there being an actual group of Discordians, because then it becomes something else they don't fit in with/belong to. My impression is that many people that catch on to the Discordian mindset/belief system have never "fit in", and it's a source of discomfort and occasional anger/frustration.

OTOOH, If there isn't at least some growth, then this whole thing will die out like the Shakers. Cabals seem to be the most useful method, and technically speaking, fit the "small communal" paradigm.

But who here is even part of a cabal? How does one start one or find one? 

The Littlest Ubermensch

Quote from: Nigel on May 05, 2008, 10:53:05 PM
A lot of my sentiment is in response to the original post"

Quote from: The Littlest Ubermensch on May 03, 2008, 06:35:40 AM
I just read this article on Rick Warren's church though the magic of Stumbleupon, and it got me thinking: how could we adopt the "small, personal group" model that has worked so well for evangelical Christians, Communists, and AA?

Did you read the article? What struck me about it is that it seems to be about GROWTH. Spreading the word.

Did you? Of course it was about growth, but the point was pointing out the effectiveness of that model of growth, not just "spreading the word"


Quote
Quote
With most decentralized movements/organizations, it seems like the small communal element is key to their success with spreading.

Do you see what I'm responding to, and what I'm objecting to?

I think that the cabal system is great, especially because it IS so decentralized and unorganized and each cell is it's own entity, free to make its mission whatever they want. Networking is grand, too, and larger group projects... if I didn't think so I wouldn't be here.

The idea of tackling, as a group, a question like "how do we facilitate the spread of Discordianism", on the other hand, makes me deeply uncomfortable, to the point where I want to make my opinion about it clear up front. I won't participate. If other people do, I will probably mostly ignore it, as I have thus far mostly ignored other efforts to "recruit". If it becomes more pervasive than I'm comfortable with, I'll simply find something else to do with my time.

Just sayin'.

I'm not sure what the big deal here is at all. I understand that there's nothing wrong with not liking the potential for proselytization, but it seems like we're wasting potential if we don't try to get the good ideas we have to spread.
[witticism/philosophical insight/nifty quote to prove my intelligence to the forum]

LISTEN TO MY SHOW THURSDAY 5-7 EST

THEN GO TO MY MYSPACE

Cramulus

Quote from: Guan Yin on May 06, 2008, 01:39:26 AM
I think the issue here is less about "spreading the word", and more about how to reach the right people...you know, the ones that are Discordian at heart, but just haven't heard of it yet.

OTOH, I get the sense that some people are uncomfortable with the idea of there being an actual group of Discordians, because then it becomes something else they don't fit in with/belong to. My impression is that many people that catch on to the Discordian mindset/belief system have never "fit in", and it's a source of discomfort and occasional anger/frustration.

OTOOH, If there isn't at least some growth, then this whole thing will die out like the Shakers. Cabals seem to be the most useful method, and technically speaking, fit the "small communal" paradigm.

But who here is even part of a cabal? How does one start one or find one? 

great points.

I'm a member of a number of cabals.
I started the JELLO Brothers of America
the Fairfield Cabal of the Nauseous Chicken
the Pirate Action League
the OBNOXIOUS JERK CABAL
the Adam Weishaupt Society
and of course, the Wrath of MS Paint Cabal (or WOMP)

and also a bunch of silly forum avatar cabals like the Ugly Old Woman cabal and the Full House cabal.

I guess I would consider the ASSes a sort of cabal. Or any KSC that participates in OMGASM

My complete dedication and loyalty to the Full House Cabal is greater than my loyalty to many of the others.



many of them were formed from IRL people I know, who got obsessed with an idea, and did lots of projects based on it.

I know an oddly high number of Discordians IRL though, so my results may be irregular.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

I'm part of a couple of cabals.

Listen, if what you have in mind doesn't actually push the boundaries of my comfort zone, I might participate. My first impression was that it was about spreading Discordianism, which pushes my personal boundaries for proselytizing. If it's not about that, but working more effectively with each other... I guess I might be interested in participating.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Cramulus

I think your concerns are legit, Nigel.

Adam Gorightly (Thornley's biographer) thought that they wanted to engineer the meme in a way that keeps it from generating fanatics. "Convictions cause convicts" and all that.

I'm sure we're all on the same page here. We want to get the word out, but we don't wanna brainwash people.

As it's said on the BIP wiki site:
"The basic math is that the more frequently people develop their critical thinking skills, the better it is for everybody involved."

ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞

Quote from: Professor Cramulus on May 06, 2008, 02:51:54 AM

We want to get the word out, but we don't wanna brainwash people.



Speak for yourself Cram, I'm currently brainwashing the entire city into thinking for themselves with a technology called FORCEFREE™.

People never see it coming because it utilizes qualia-based subliminals augmented by level four Design Human Engineering™ and the latest strategies in NLP™ holography. This is currently being integrated into OPB broadcasts and the Oregonian newspaper by an elite team of mentally disabled operatives. You see the hypnotic data is converted into a holographic waveform and digitally enmeshed into the radio transmissions and prepress RIPs.

This anti-herd instinct you see in Nigel is due to earlier imperfections in the neurobiological basis of brainwashing theory. She was our first guinea pig. There have been some side effects, such as excessive paranoia and fascination with cones but they have been corrected in subsequent developments of FORCEFREE™.

FORCEFREE™: Washing Brains Into Autonomy

You heard it here first folks. The press release doesn't occur for another week.
P E R   A S P E R A   A D   A S T R A

Cain

Quote from: Nigel on May 05, 2008, 06:27:38 PM
Quote from: Cain on May 05, 2008, 12:56:11 PM


Oh, and thanks for the vote of confidence.


Also, what the fuck is this "vote of confidence" bullshit? What are you trying to say, here? Am I supposed to blindly agree with what someone else says or wants JUST BECAUSE THEY'RE DISCORDIAN?

Please explain, I'm really interested.

Well according to you, if we dont keep Discordianism a cliquey in-joke, we're no better than any other sort of religious fundamentalists.

Which is to say, everyone on this forum who has ever talked about getting the idea of Discordianism out there.  This subforum was originally called the Black Iron Prison, which was the name of a piece of work that came out of a project to try and update and increase interest in Discordianism.

So according to you, LMNO, RWHM, myself, Cramulus, LHX etc are no better than the retards at the AA.

And you expect me to be civil to you after that insult?  Fuck off Nigel, you owe most people on here who aren't interested in having their own version of the kewl kidz club an apology.

Cain

Quote from: Nigel on May 05, 2008, 06:24:35 PM
Also, really, what Ratatosk said.

To do some parroting of my own, I read once something along the lines of, "Each enlightenment is only good one time, for the person who discovers it". In a way, I think that's really another way of phrasing "think for yourself, Schmuck". Either way, it really stuck with me, and I personally find it a great reminder that what seems profound and important to me may be meaningless for others, and that's ok.

Anyway, I think that if someone finds their own enlightenment in dissemination of information, that's great. On the other hand, if I find myself associated with a group who puts a lot of energy into spreading the word of Discordianism, I will probably not be comfortable with that, and will end the association.

After all, the only thing Seventh-Day Adventists are doing when they go door to door is "informing people of their options".

No they're not.

Thats bullshit and you know it.

Because anyone with half a brain knows Seventh Day Adventists exist.  They know they're there, and that what they may not be sure of what they believe, that they can find out easily.

CLUEPHONE RINGING: most people have never even heard of Discordianism!

Shocking, I know.  But since Discordians are so geographically disparate and so unknown, a campaign to let people know that Discordianism actually exists might actually draw the interest of people who want to know more.

OH MA LAWD!  IS DAT SUM BRAINWASHING?

Your bullshit comparisons don't hold up, because you're comparing radical different groups and ideas.  The average person does not know what a Discordian is, and does not know what they believe.  In such a situation, letting people know Discordianism exists is nothing like what other religious groups do, and find the implication of such an insult.