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Define "metal".

Started by The Good Reverend Roger, December 20, 2012, 07:38:57 PM

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The Good Reverend Roger

#75
December 21, 2012, 02:48:07 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on December 21, 2012, 02:29:05 PM
I'd still like to hear it, though.  I pretty much killed both those idols already.

Well, it was back in the 80s, at the Cabaret Metro in Chicago.  My friends and I went to see Black Flag - Henry Rollins was the front man at the time, and the concert was for the TV Party album.  Short & skinny, they were having an off night.  That's excusable.

But when they got heckled a bit, Rollins had a complete meltdown and spent 5 minutes on stage screeching about how hard a job it was and did anyone think they could do better?  Some yahoo out in the crowd said, "yeah", and threw a cup full of beer at Rollins.  The cup somehow stayed more or less full in flight, and beaned Rollins in the face.

Rollins went full potato, and went after the guy...But never even made it there.  The crowd pummelled the shit out of him, and he hollered for security.  Concert over.

Stopping a concert for that?  Hollering for security after playing the tough guy?

That's not punk. 

Rollins was finished in Chicago after that. 
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

LMNO

#76
December 21, 2012, 02:57:27 PM
Yeah, that sounds like Rollins.  Big mouth, small man.

AFK

#77
December 21, 2012, 02:59:21 PM
Don't forget, poet.  He's like the "punk" Billy Corgan.
Cynicism is a blank check for failure.

The Good Reverend Roger

#78
December 21, 2012, 03:01:03 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on December 21, 2012, 02:57:27 PM
Yeah, that sounds like Rollins.  Big mouth, small man.

"Security" was a few lugs and a tiny little skinhead named Daniel, who scared the living blue Jesus out of everyone.  He weighed maybe half of what Rollins weighed, but when he jumped up to the mic and quietly said "get out", we got.  Place emptied out in about 30 seconds.

" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

The Good Reverend Roger

#79
December 21, 2012, 03:03:38 PM
So, yeah, Henry Rollins isn't metal.

Daniel was metal as fuck, though, even if he looked like something from a children's cancer ward.

" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Eater of Clowns

#80
December 21, 2012, 03:08:25 PM
Metal is a perpetually recurring self parody.
Quote from: Pippa Twiddleton on December 22, 2012, 01:06:36 AM
EoC, you are the bane of my existence.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 07, 2014, 01:18:23 AM
EoC doesn't make creepy.

EoC makes creepy worse.

Quote
the afflicted persons get hold of and consume carrots even in socially quite unacceptable situations.

The Good Reverend Roger

#81
December 21, 2012, 03:13:56 PM
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on December 21, 2012, 03:08:25 PM
Metal is a perpetually recurring self parody.

Not when it's done right.

Ace of Spades by Motorhead isn't a self-parody.

Anything by Dr Hook & The Medicine Show - and don't anyone try to tell me The Cover of the Rolling Stone isn't proto-metal - is a self-parody of a self-parody, so it cancels itself out and remains metal.

Rob Zombie does the same thing as Dr Hook, only his metal is fully developed.  If Dr Hook is a world war I model II tank, then Rob Zombie is an Abrams Mk II with a full sound system and wet bar.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Eater of Clowns

#82
December 21, 2012, 03:40:17 PM
Just fuckin' with the metal kids, Roger.

Thing is, I respect metal as a genre.  I completely recognize there's a lot of talent behind it.  But it does nothing for me, personally.  My favorite thing about metal is the completely absurd and over the top shit, so I try to have some fun with that.  Actually listening to it, though, the only metal I've returned to and enjoyed is Danzig, Probot, and what little I've heard of Iron Maiden and Motorhead seems pretty cool.

You're a country fan, Roger, if I remember correctly?  I feel kind've the same way.  Pop country bullshit aside, I think country music can be great.  I just don't really dig it.  Exceptions for Johnny Cash.
Quote from: Pippa Twiddleton on December 22, 2012, 01:06:36 AM
EoC, you are the bane of my existence.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 07, 2014, 01:18:23 AM
EoC doesn't make creepy.

EoC makes creepy worse.

Quote
the afflicted persons get hold of and consume carrots even in socially quite unacceptable situations.

The Good Reverend Roger

#83
December 21, 2012, 03:46:47 PM
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on December 21, 2012, 03:40:17 PM
You're a country fan, Roger, if I remember correctly?  I feel kind've the same way.  Pop country bullshit aside, I think country music can be great.  I just don't really dig it.  Exceptions for Johnny Cash.

When it's done right, country music explains America.  When it's done WRONG, it explains America™.  Johnny Cash, Porter Waggoner, and Rehab1 is doing it right.  Taylor Swift and that whiny fucking Australian (Dirk Bently or Gently or some shit) is doing it wrong.

That being said, it is one genre of music that I enjoy.  It isn't my favorite, but I am a fan.  If I had to pick a favorite genre, it would be blues, and inside of that genre, I'd say Elton John's early work.



1 Yes, Rehab is country.  The same problem exists as exists with defining what "metal" is.  Rehab meets all the requirements for country.  So everybody shut up.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

The Good Reverend Roger

#84
December 21, 2012, 03:47:56 PM
Also, James Brown explained America™, but he did it ON PURPOSE, and he was LAUGHING AT US.

" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Mangrove

#85
December 21, 2012, 04:22:23 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 21, 2012, 03:47:56 PM
Also, James Brown explained America™, but he did it ON PURPOSE, and he was LAUGHING AT US.

Sorry to double back to earlier points, but Roger mentions James Brown which was something I wanted to bring up before I went to bed last night.

Using the word 'soul' as a musical descriptor is kind of pointless. To say that some music has 'soul' (like blues or uhh...soul..) but to say that metal doesn't really help.

African American derived musical forms like blues, jazz etc have a characteristic rhythmic feeling of 'swing' (cf: Duke Ellington). It's the way those 8th notes get smooshed and pulled around. It's taking rhythmic liberties that would not be permissible in so called Classical music.

Does metal swing? No absolutely not. The even, tight rhythm is, in part what makes it sound metal. However that's not the same as asking if it has emotional content. Metal does have a range of moods that it portrays from aggression to doom n' gloom etc.

I don't get into the 'black music has soul = emotion' but white music doesn't. It would be fairer to say that black musical genres have taken a particular approach to groove that is typically more pliable than the European approach. Whether one is more emotional or 'soulful' than the other is a matter of (a) the artist concerned & (b) the listener. There's plenty of metal that has some guts & blood to it and plenty of soul/RnB music that is completely sterile. There's no end of permutations to this.

Which brings me to James Brown and the sheer fucking idiocy of the late 80s/early 90s belief in FUNK METAL. This, IMHO is utterly impossible because what makes something funky is diametrically opposed to sounding metallic and vice versa.  For reasons that I cannot fathom, there were musicians and music fans who thought that 'We Care A Lot' by Faith No More and even 'Get the Funk Out' by Extreme(!) were funk metal songs. 

That's not to pass judgment on these songs or the artists, but come on, really? When you hear either of these songs does anyone seriously think "Yeah...this totally puts me in the same vibe as James Brown or Parliament?"

THERE WAS NEVER FUNK METAL...and while we're at it THE POLICE WERE NOT A REGGAE  BAND.

   
What makes it so? Making it so is what makes it so.

AFK

#86
December 21, 2012, 05:06:41 PM
For what it's worth, Faith No More really didn't go out of their way to self-identify as metal, let alone funk metal.  In fact, they really hated the funk metal term because, particularily in the early days, they'd get endleesly compared to the Chili Peppers.  (which is horseshit because the Peppers are crap, where FNM are clearly superior)


People lazily classified FNM as funk metal because of Billy Gould's approach to bass.  Of course in the past they've also been mis-labled rap-metal, thrash metal, proto nu-metal...they were just a great rock band that happened to have five very talented musicians with extremely varied musical backgrounds. 
Cynicism is a blank check for failure.

AFK

#87
December 21, 2012, 05:07:56 PM
Cynicism is a blank check for failure.

Mangrove

#88
December 21, 2012, 05:32:22 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on December 21, 2012, 05:06:41 PM
For what it's worth, Faith No More really didn't go out of their way to self-identify as metal, let alone funk metal.  In fact, they really hated the funk metal term because, particularily in the early days, they'd get endleesly compared to the Chili Peppers.  (which is horseshit because the Peppers are crap, where FNM are clearly superior)


People lazily classified FNM as funk metal because of Billy Gould's approach to bass.  Of course in the past they've also been mis-labled rap-metal, thrash metal, proto nu-metal...they were just a great rock band that happened to have five very talented musicians with extremely varied musical backgrounds.

Good point. I wasn't suggesting that these bands necessarily put themselves out there as 'funk metal' only that plenty of people bought into the label without noticing that funk & metal were very different musical genres that I don't think work together. Some genres can be intermixed better than others and I believe that 'funk' and 'metal' are on the 'not as well as others' list.

Mind Funk? See, that's exactly the kind of early 90s retarded nonsense I was talking about.  :argh!:

As for the RHCP, I should have mentioned 'Give It Away' which is fairly funky but not really metal in any way. No one is going to hear that song and think it's like listening to early Metallica.
What makes it so? Making it so is what makes it so.

AFK

#89
December 21, 2012, 08:12:07 PM
But Weird Al's take on Give it Away was metal as fuck!
Cynicism is a blank check for failure.
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