I would like to bring something to the consideration of my dear Aunts and Uncles.
People like to wear masks.
Not just for Halloween or some sort of fancy dress sort of thing. No, people like to put up a front of sorts. A created personality. Kinda like your social networking profile, except this one stays on in person. You don't take it off really. The mask looks a lot like your actual face, but a bit distorted.
Masks basically do two obvious things. They conceal your identity, and they pass you off as something you want others to think you are.
When you're wearing your mask, which is always, you're hiding a bit of yourself, holding back, for whatever reason, and you're exaggerating some of your other features, whether in a more flattering way, or as an intentional caricature. This is fine, and healthy. Masks are fun to wear. And some parts of your real face you don't necessarily want to show everyone.
But since you're always wearing your mask, that's also what you see when you look in the mirror. You see yourself as you want others to see you.
Maybe then, you realize that you're still wearing your mask, as you look at yourself in the mirror, and you've forgotten what you look like. So, naturally, you start to take the mask off.
The problem with that is that there is another side of the mask. The side that no one ever thinks about. People only ever think about the outside of the mask, and the the face that it is concealing. And when you go to take off that mask, you look at the other side of the mask, and there are things written there. The things that are written there are insulting. Disheartening. Embarrassing. That whole time, silently speaking to you in the darkness.
It's why you put the mask on in the first place. You didn't want to have to read what was there, and you didn't want anyone else to read it either. The best way to do that is to hide it away where not even you could see it. But it was still there, facing you the whole time. And while you were facing it as well, you weren't really looking at it, you were looking past it.
But hey, you forgot that the mask is off and there's a mirror in front of you. Take a look. It's not all that bad. Yeah, it can be kinda bad sometimes, and maybe a rare time really bad, but there are some good things there too. The same things that are on the outside of the mask. That's why you put them on the front of the mask in the first place. And that's really what this is about anyway. You made the mask, so you're the one who wrote all that nasty shit on the inside.
Anyway, chuck out that mask and use that mirror to wash your face. It's kinda bad for your skin to be wearing an old grimy mask all the time.
Your favorite Nephew,
Twid
PS- I'm intending on turning this concept into a song, an illustration, or a short story of some sort. Maybe all three. Why not?
DO EET.
This is some seriously good shit.
Especially the part about why we wear masks, and that we both create the mask and the writing. I don't think that's often been said, and this is a very good way of saying it.
It reminds me of this TED talk I watched a while back, (http://www.ted.com/talks/thandie_newton_embracing_otherness_embracing_myself.html) which effectively threw me right out of depression into a few whole days of being totally awesome.
Quote from: Verbal Mike on October 17, 2012, 11:03:30 AM
Especially the part about why we wear masks, and that we both create the mask and the writing. I don't think that's often been said, and this is a very good way of saying it.
It reminds me of this TED talk I watched a while back, (http://www.ted.com/talks/thandie_newton_embracing_otherness_embracing_myself.html) which effectively threw me right out of depression into a few whole days of being totally awesome.
Ooh, thanks dude.
I had a discussion with my mom on something quite like this recently.
I've been wearing a mask that I wasn't even totally aware of. This persona of the quiet, shy, good girl. The purpose of which is so that people will like me, because for whatever reason I came to think that is most important.
She told me that she can see my real personality (which is much like my father's) screaming to come out. That she can't understand why I've been so willing to suppress it for such a long time.
This got me thinking, made me realize that it's true. Part of the reason I feel so miserable is that I don't let the real me show. Which, of course, brought another round of depression on me. Because I'm messed up like that. But this time I'm not letting it take control. The mask is sliding off and I hope I can handle the result.
I read once that in some depression/burnout expert's estimation, the root cause of depression is always stuff you are hiding from the world, like secrets. Maybe it's masks, too.
Good luck, Sita.
There's the mask you wear with family
And the mask you wear at school
There's the mask you wear with one group of friends
And another
And another.
There's a mask you wear for authorities
And the mask for riding the bus
There's the mask you wear for first dates
And seconds
And thirds.
There's a mask for social gatherings
And a mask for nights at home
There's a mask for those who love you
And the one you wear
For you
(is it alright if I bounce some more things off this, Twid? you hit one of my favorite subjects)
Go for it. Next phase for me is to discuss it further here while figuring out which medium to go for next
Probably ill twiddle around with it in horror type story format to prep it for transition to a metal song. Anarchangel in general is suffering from a bit of burn out so were going to be on vacation from it for december and then get to writing new shit with it since we also want to play something new.
As a side note lmno- 80% in favor of you remixing monster. Villager was absent from the vote due to not feeling well.
The only thing I have against the masks metaphor is that, imo, there's nothing under there. Just another mask. What I'm getting at is that the only thing you can ever show the world is a mask. The choice of what that mask comprises is either up to you or some kind of default that happens by itself but it's a mask nonetheless.
The whole notion of "being true to yourself" and doing shit "from the heart" strikes me as so much bullshit put there to stop you growing. You don't have to stay the same - most everyone changes. Accept this, embrace it. Change deliberately into someone you want to be. Design a new mask. Put it on. Simple as that. Alternatively, hold on to "your true nature" and watch the tired old mask get cracked and corrupted by a universe that doesn't really give a fuck if you're being genuine or not.
I see what youre saying pent- i might include that in further iterations of the idea.
Is there much point in wearing a mask around the house though?
I'm thinking a distinction should be made but I'm thinking it's not mask wearers v's non-mask wearers
Maybe Mask wearers who are good at playing the part and mask wearers that suck at it.
You start out designing a new mask, a new personality, there's a learning curve, an adjustment period. During this adjustment period everyone who knows the old mask will accuse you of trying to "be something you're not" or "fake" or words to that effect.
This aspect of human nature gets right on my tits. Give a person time to settle in and they'll grow into their new mask. Like riding a new bike. Discouraging it is discouraging growth. Most of the time it's just sour grapes anyroad but a lot of the time it works.
Also you don't necessarily have to limit yourself to one mask.
Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on October 17, 2012, 02:24:45 PM
As a side note lmno- 80% in favor of you remixing monster. Villager was absent from the vote due to not feeling well.
That's cool. Lemme know when you've got confirmation, and we'll start up a new thread about it.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on October 17, 2012, 03:17:27 PM
I'm thinking a distinction should be made but I'm thinking it's not mask wearers v's non-mask wearers
Maybe Mask wearers who are good at playing the part and mask wearers that suck at it.
You start out designing a new mask, a new personality, there's a learning curve, an adjustment period. During this adjustment period everyone who knows the old mask will accuse you of trying to "be something you're not" or "fake" or words to that effect.
This aspect of human nature gets right on my tits. Give a person time to settle in and they'll grow into their new mask. Like riding a new bike. Discouraging it is discouraging growth. Most of the time it's just sour grapes anyroad but a lot of the time it works.
Has anyone already done a piece about taking off the various masks until you realize there's nothing left? It feels familiar, but I'm not sure if that's just because I've had a version of it bouncing around for the better part of a year.
Quote from: Queen Gogira Pennyworth, BSW on October 17, 2012, 06:10:00 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on October 17, 2012, 03:17:27 PM
I'm thinking a distinction should be made but I'm thinking it's not mask wearers v's non-mask wearers
Maybe Mask wearers who are good at playing the part and mask wearers that suck at it.
You start out designing a new mask, a new personality, there's a learning curve, an adjustment period. During this adjustment period everyone who knows the old mask will accuse you of trying to "be something you're not" or "fake" or words to that effect.
This aspect of human nature gets right on my tits. Give a person time to settle in and they'll grow into their new mask. Like riding a new bike. Discouraging it is discouraging growth. Most of the time it's just sour grapes anyroad but a lot of the time it works.
Has anyone already done a piece about taking off the various masks until you realize there's nothing left? It feels familiar, but I'm not sure if that's just because I've had a version of it bouncing around for the better part of a year.
Ooh.
Maybe. The idea is similar to Roger's Uniforms analogy, but with the added bit about the crap on the inside
Quote from: Queen Gogira Pennyworth, BSW on October 17, 2012, 06:10:00 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on October 17, 2012, 03:17:27 PM
I'm thinking a distinction should be made but I'm thinking it's not mask wearers v's non-mask wearers
Maybe Mask wearers who are good at playing the part and mask wearers that suck at it.
You start out designing a new mask, a new personality, there's a learning curve, an adjustment period. During this adjustment period everyone who knows the old mask will accuse you of trying to "be something you're not" or "fake" or words to that effect.
This aspect of human nature gets right on my tits. Give a person time to settle in and they'll grow into their new mask. Like riding a new bike. Discouraging it is discouraging growth. Most of the time it's just sour grapes anyroad but a lot of the time it works.
Has anyone already done a piece about taking off the various masks until you realize there's nothing left? It feels familiar, but I'm not sure if that's just because I've had a version of it bouncing around for the better part of a year.
Write it anyway.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on October 17, 2012, 03:17:27 PM
I'm thinking a distinction should be made but I'm thinking it's not mask wearers v's non-mask wearers
There are no "non-mask wearers".
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 17, 2012, 07:05:38 PM
Quote from: Queen Gogira Pennyworth, BSW on October 17, 2012, 06:10:00 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on October 17, 2012, 03:17:27 PM
I'm thinking a distinction should be made but I'm thinking it's not mask wearers v's non-mask wearers
Maybe Mask wearers who are good at playing the part and mask wearers that suck at it.
You start out designing a new mask, a new personality, there's a learning curve, an adjustment period. During this adjustment period everyone who knows the old mask will accuse you of trying to "be something you're not" or "fake" or words to that effect.
This aspect of human nature gets right on my tits. Give a person time to settle in and they'll grow into their new mask. Like riding a new bike. Discouraging it is discouraging growth. Most of the time it's just sour grapes anyroad but a lot of the time it works.
Has anyone already done a piece about taking off the various masks until you realize there's nothing left? It feels familiar, but I'm not sure if that's just because I've had a version of it bouncing around for the better part of a year.
Write it anyway.
We did a series on the mask cracking and what was underneath, but that's different than what you're saying. Write it.
Quote from: Man Yellow on October 17, 2012, 07:06:04 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on October 17, 2012, 03:17:27 PM
I'm thinking a distinction should be made but I'm thinking it's not mask wearers v's non-mask wearers
There are no "non-mask wearers".
Maybe a few, but only because they've given up having any identity that isn't the mask.
Quote from: V3X on October 17, 2012, 07:06:59 PM
Quote from: Man Yellow on October 17, 2012, 07:06:04 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on October 17, 2012, 03:17:27 PM
I'm thinking a distinction should be made but I'm thinking it's not mask wearers v's non-mask wearers
There are no "non-mask wearers".
Maybe a few, but only because they've given up having any identity that isn't the mask.
So, at that point the mask becomes the mirror, and the mirror becomes the mask, since there is no real difference between the two.
Hmmm.
Quote from: Man Yellow on October 17, 2012, 07:06:44 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 17, 2012, 07:05:38 PM
Quote from: Queen Gogira Pennyworth, BSW on October 17, 2012, 06:10:00 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on October 17, 2012, 03:17:27 PM
I'm thinking a distinction should be made but I'm thinking it's not mask wearers v's non-mask wearers
Maybe Mask wearers who are good at playing the part and mask wearers that suck at it.
You start out designing a new mask, a new personality, there's a learning curve, an adjustment period. During this adjustment period everyone who knows the old mask will accuse you of trying to "be something you're not" or "fake" or words to that effect.
This aspect of human nature gets right on my tits. Give a person time to settle in and they'll grow into their new mask. Like riding a new bike. Discouraging it is discouraging growth. Most of the time it's just sour grapes anyroad but a lot of the time it works.
Has anyone already done a piece about taking off the various masks until you realize there's nothing left? It feels familiar, but I'm not sure if that's just because I've had a version of it bouncing around for the better part of a year.
Write it anyway.
We did a series on the mask cracking and what was underneath, but that's different than what you're saying. Write it.
Could you bump it?
Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on October 17, 2012, 07:08:37 PM
Quote from: V3X on October 17, 2012, 07:06:59 PM
Quote from: Man Yellow on October 17, 2012, 07:06:04 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on October 17, 2012, 03:17:27 PM
I'm thinking a distinction should be made but I'm thinking it's not mask wearers v's non-mask wearers
There are no "non-mask wearers".
Maybe a few, but only because they've given up having any identity that isn't the mask.
So, at that point the mask becomes the mirror, and the mirror becomes the mask, since there is no real difference between the two.
Hmmm.
It's dissolution of the Ego, in a way. Also enlightenment, in a way. Except instead of giving up your Ego entirely, you just merge it with the Ego of a larger group. There are plenty of honest-to-goodness Fundamentalist Baptists who are not wearing masks, for example. That's really who they are. There are no further identities beneath the Fundamentalist Baptist masks they wear -- maybe a skeleton, maybe the grim remains of whatever motivated them to become what they are -- but no
souls under all the dress-up. They are bodies that serve the purpose of an idea, nothing more.
Quote from: V3X on October 17, 2012, 07:14:13 PM
Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on October 17, 2012, 07:08:37 PM
Quote from: V3X on October 17, 2012, 07:06:59 PM
Quote from: Man Yellow on October 17, 2012, 07:06:04 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on October 17, 2012, 03:17:27 PM
I'm thinking a distinction should be made but I'm thinking it's not mask wearers v's non-mask wearers
There are no "non-mask wearers".
Maybe a few, but only because they've given up having any identity that isn't the mask.
So, at that point the mask becomes the mirror, and the mirror becomes the mask, since there is no real difference between the two.
Hmmm.
It's dissolution of the Ego, in a way. Also enlightenment, in a way. Except instead of giving up your Ego entirely, you just merge it with the Ego of a larger group. There are plenty of honest-to-goodness Fundamentalist Baptists who are not wearing masks, for example. That's really who they are. There are no further identities beneath the Fundamentalist Baptist masks they wear -- maybe a skeleton, maybe the grim remains of whatever motivated them to become what they are -- but no souls under all the dress-up. They are bodies that serve the purpose of an idea, nothing more.
Damn.
I'm probably going to end up having to give you a partial writing credit for the short story and the song.
Oh, look. Another article at Less Wrong (http://lesswrong.com/lw/8gv/the_curse_of_identity/) that is relevant to this thread.
QuoteI thought I was working for a particular goal (become capable of doing useful Singularity work, advance the cause of a political party, do useful Singularity work). But as soon as I set that goal, my brain automatically and invisibly re-interpreted it as the goal of doing something that gave the impression of doing prestigious work for a cause (spending all my waking time working, being the spokesman of a political party, writing papers or doing something else few others could do). "Prestigious work" could also be translated as "work that really convinces others that you are doing something valuable for a cause".
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 17, 2012, 07:23:56 PM
Oh, look. Another article at Less Wrong (http://lesswrong.com/lw/8gv/the_curse_of_identity/) that is relevant to this thread.
QuoteI thought I was working for a particular goal (become capable of doing useful Singularity work, advance the cause of a political party, do useful Singularity work). But as soon as I set that goal, my brain automatically and invisibly re-interpreted it as the goal of doing something that gave the impression of doing prestigious work for a cause (spending all my waking time working, being the spokesman of a political party, writing papers or doing something else few others could do). "Prestigious work" could also be translated as "work that really convinces others that you are doing something valuable for a cause".
Funny enough I was reading Less Wrong on the other tab anyway
RE: non-mask wearers
So um, don't we define ourselves by comparing ourselves to notourselves? In other words, I am Me because I know I am not You, and the things that I used to differentiate Myself from NotMyself changes based on the NotMyself I am comparing Myself to. So wouldn't that mean there are Masks that are Mask over Mask, but also Masks that aren't complete Masks, but parts of a Mask, and you mix and match your Maskparts?
Gonna have to sort that one out a bit when i get home. It seems pretty straightforward im just not processing it atm.
Quote from: Man Yellow on October 17, 2012, 07:06:44 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 17, 2012, 07:05:38 PM
Quote from: Queen Gogira Pennyworth, BSW on October 17, 2012, 06:10:00 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on October 17, 2012, 03:17:27 PM
I'm thinking a distinction should be made but I'm thinking it's not mask wearers v's non-mask wearers
Maybe Mask wearers who are good at playing the part and mask wearers that suck at it.
You start out designing a new mask, a new personality, there's a learning curve, an adjustment period. During this adjustment period everyone who knows the old mask will accuse you of trying to "be something you're not" or "fake" or words to that effect.
This aspect of human nature gets right on my tits. Give a person time to settle in and they'll grow into their new mask. Like riding a new bike. Discouraging it is discouraging growth. Most of the time it's just sour grapes anyroad but a lot of the time it works.
Has anyone already done a piece about taking off the various masks until you realize there's nothing left? It feels familiar, but I'm not sure if that's just because I've had a version of it bouncing around for the better part of a year.
Write it anyway.
We did a series on the mask cracking and what was underneath, but that's different than what you're saying. Write it.
Whatever happened with those?
Also, seems to me that both of them have a tie-in to the "Hi, My Name Is..." or whatever it was called thread. I loved that thread. You know shit's GOOD when it makes you anxious, uncomfortable, angry, depressed, etc.
The number of people who said they started to write one but quit because it was too awful really flagged it for me as a good topic. They were on the right track... I wish they would revisit it.
I think that one tied directly into my thinking about whats written on the other side of the mask.
Quote from: American Jackal on October 17, 2012, 10:00:32 PM
RE: non-mask wearers
So um, don't we define ourselves by comparing ourselves to notourselves? In other words, I am Me because I know I am not You, and the things that I used to differentiate Myself from NotMyself changes based on the NotMyself I am comparing Myself to. So wouldn't that mean there are Masks that are Mask over Mask, but also Masks that aren't complete Masks, but parts of a Mask, and you mix and match your Maskparts?
I think that one of the things that came up in the My Face Fell Off thread (or whatever it was called) was that people can't actually interact with each other without masks of some kind. We can't handle an unmasked person. We NEED some kind of boundaries, and the different masks we choose reflect not only what we want to show the people we're interacting with, but also how we're willing to interact with them, how much intimacy we're willing to have with them, and what parts of ourselves we're willing to show.
If you wear the wrong mask for a particular situation, things go sideways. You don't want to wear your Saucy Slut mask when you're interacting with your son, or your Party Girl mask at the office, or your Power Executive mask when you're having dinner with your friends.
Quote from: Man Green on October 17, 2012, 10:36:01 PM
Quote from: American Jackal on October 17, 2012, 10:00:32 PM
RE: non-mask wearers
So um, don't we define ourselves by comparing ourselves to notourselves? In other words, I am Me because I know I am not You, and the things that I used to differentiate Myself from NotMyself changes based on the NotMyself I am comparing Myself to. So wouldn't that mean there are Masks that are Mask over Mask, but also Masks that aren't complete Masks, but parts of a Mask, and you mix and match your Maskparts?
I think that one of the things that came up in the My Face Fell Off thread (or whatever it was called) was that people can't actually interact with each other without masks of some kind. We can't handle an unmasked person. We NEED some kind of boundaries, and the different masks we choose reflect not only what we want to show the people we're interacting with, but also how we're willing to interact with them, how much intimacy we're willing to have with them, and what parts of ourselves we're willing to show.
If you wear the wrong mask for a particular situation, things go sideways. You don't want to wear your Saucy Slut mask when you're interacting with your son, or your Party Girl mask at the office, or your Power Executive mask when you're having dinner with your friends.
It could be said that your True You is ALL your Masks. The try to separate the Masks from the Face would like trying to remove the face of a die. A die with one less face can not be used for the same purpose it was intended, and will not roll the same way. There is more to the die than the numbers printed on it. And without the die the numbers lack the context.
Quote from: American Jackal on October 17, 2012, 10:52:11 PM
Quote from: Man Green on October 17, 2012, 10:36:01 PM
Quote from: American Jackal on October 17, 2012, 10:00:32 PM
RE: non-mask wearers
So um, don't we define ourselves by comparing ourselves to notourselves? In other words, I am Me because I know I am not You, and the things that I used to differentiate Myself from NotMyself changes based on the NotMyself I am comparing Myself to. So wouldn't that mean there are Masks that are Mask over Mask, but also Masks that aren't complete Masks, but parts of a Mask, and you mix and match your Maskparts?
I think that one of the things that came up in the My Face Fell Off thread (or whatever it was called) was that people can't actually interact with each other without masks of some kind. We can't handle an unmasked person. We NEED some kind of boundaries, and the different masks we choose reflect not only what we want to show the people we're interacting with, but also how we're willing to interact with them, how much intimacy we're willing to have with them, and what parts of ourselves we're willing to show.
If you wear the wrong mask for a particular situation, things go sideways. You don't want to wear your Saucy Slut mask when you're interacting with your son, or your Party Girl mask at the office, or your Power Executive mask when you're having dinner with your friends.
It could be said that your True You is ALL your Masks. The try to separate the Masks from the Face would like trying to remove the face of a die. A die with one less face can not be used for the same purpose it was intended, and will not roll the same way. There is more to the die than the numbers printed on it. And without the die the numbers lack the context.
Hmmm, I like this analogy. The more masks you have, in a sense, the more facets, and therefore you may be more confusing, but also more versatile.
So:
I = Σ [mask]
To further expound upon this, unlike a die, a human potentially has more faces than can be seen. To wit, the better you know someone more apparent their other faces become. Furthermore, the more faces a person perceives of another person, the more they can still see those other faces? When looking at the face of a four sided die, one face is clearly visible, but on the other hand, you can see more than just one face at a time, even though one is in focus.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 17, 2012, 11:12:49 PM
So:
I = Σ [mask]
I think that the I is more than just the sum of all masks, but I don't know?
There is a face behind the masks, but I strongly suspect it is only a mirror. A terrible, horrible mirror. If you removed your masks completely -- all pretense, all identity, all belief, all ego altogether -- what would be left? A Thing which experiences. And that's true for everyone. Anyone who saw you would be staring directly at what they themselves are. Being faced with that, I can imagine the masks screaming in terror. It may be impossible to communicate that way, maybe because "communication" itself is a layer of abstraction built on top of that ultimate identity.
Quote from: V3X on October 17, 2012, 11:20:19 PM
There is a face behind the masks, but I strongly suspect it is only a mirror. A terrible, horrible mirror. If you removed your masks completely -- all pretense, all identity, all belief, all ego altogether -- what would be left? A Thing which experiences. And that's true for everyone. Anyone who saw you would be staring directly at what they themselves are. Being faced with that, I can imagine the masks screaming in terror. It may be impossible to communicate that way, maybe because "communication" itself is a layer of abstraction built on top of that ultimate identity.
if you strip away all masks then all you have is the last few episodes of Neon Genesis Evangalion. AND NO ONE WANTS TO LISTEN TO SHINJI CRYING AGAIN!!!!!!!
Quote from: American Jackal on October 17, 2012, 11:22:38 PM
Quote from: V3X on October 17, 2012, 11:20:19 PM
There is a face behind the masks, but I strongly suspect it is only a mirror. A terrible, horrible mirror. If you removed your masks completely -- all pretense, all identity, all belief, all ego altogether -- what would be left? A Thing which experiences. And that's true for everyone. Anyone who saw you would be staring directly at what they themselves are. Being faced with that, I can imagine the masks screaming in terror. It may be impossible to communicate that way, maybe because "communication" itself is a layer of abstraction built on top of that ultimate identity.
if you strip away all masks then all you have is the last few episodes of Neon Genesis Evangalion. AND NO ONE WANTS TO LISTEN TO SHINJI CRYING AGAIN!!!!!!!
Speak for yourself. I have Dark Side of the Moon in here.
Quote from: V3X on October 17, 2012, 11:26:17 PM
Quote from: American Jackal on October 17, 2012, 11:22:38 PM
Quote from: V3X on October 17, 2012, 11:20:19 PM
There is a face behind the masks, but I strongly suspect it is only a mirror. A terrible, horrible mirror. If you removed your masks completely -- all pretense, all identity, all belief, all ego altogether -- what would be left? A Thing which experiences. And that's true for everyone. Anyone who saw you would be staring directly at what they themselves are. Being faced with that, I can imagine the masks screaming in terror. It may be impossible to communicate that way, maybe because "communication" itself is a layer of abstraction built on top of that ultimate identity.
if you strip away all masks then all you have is the last few episodes of Neon Genesis Evangalion. AND NO ONE WANTS TO LISTEN TO SHINJI CRYING AGAIN!!!!!!!
Speak for yourself. I have Dark Side of the Moon in here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=atL7Ra4fJgg#t=28s
I have never watched the thing you guys are referring to.
I don't know what he's talking about, I'm talking about Pink Floyd.
Or, my mask is anyway. I guess I ran out of things to say.
Babble babble bitch bitch rebel rebel party party sex sex sex and dont forget the violence
Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on October 18, 2012, 12:22:08 AM
Babble babble bitch bitch rebel rebel party party sex sex sex and dont forget the violence
Hey, you, are you
trying to be mean?
When you live with apes, man.. it's hard to be clean.
- - - - - THIS POST IS AN APOLOGY FOR MY PART IN TURNING THIS INTRIGUING THREAD INTO A TOOLBOX - - - - -
I knew youd get the ref thats why i figured it was the best response to not having something to say. Anyway providing that im not wiped out when i get home ill revisit the past couple of pages
No worries uncle vex. A nephew tends to be tolerant of a little bit of thread drift.
Did I accidentally kill thread? :oops:
No- i said that i would continue it but i started working on the short story relate to it instead. Then my brain juices were gone.
Once upon a time in a city on the river there lived Humble Lady Ermine and the young Queen Gogira. Queen Gogira Pennyworth, Dweller in the Sinking Lands, had come to the city from the swamplands to the west, and there she learned the ways of the Goddess: of Jailbreaking and of Barstools, of Grids and Keeping Your Mouth Shut. These things she shared with Humble Lady Ermine, who was in her own lazy way a conduit for strangeness, and a protectress of the slimy things.
And so it was for many months that they lived together in the house of Lady Ermine, and Queen Gogira said unto her hostess "do you even notice the masks you wear?"
"I wear no mask," insisted Lady Ermine.
"Now come on," scolded Queen Gogira. "Don't be an idiot. Listen to yourself when you speak with Doctor Hand, and listen again when you speak with the Baron. You are not the same person. Even when you're here speaking with me, you are wearing a mask."
Lady Ermine reflected on this wisdom. "I suppose you could be right," she admitted. "But what should I do about it?"
"Fucked if I know!" Queen Gogira snorted.
It was a short conversation, and a boring one at that as no one caught fire or anything, but it weighed on Lady Ermine, and she resolved to get to the bottom of her masks and see what they were hiding.
The first mask she found was the Mask of Submission, which she wore among those monkeys that believed they were more powerful than she. It was the mask that spoke in low tones, that apologized for non-offenses, that scraped and groveled and toed the lines. She had never submitted her will to anyone else's, but she had worn the mask to get things done. She cataloged this mask, and put it away.
The second mask she found was the Mask of Authority, which she wore among those monkeys that believed she was more learned than they. It was the mask that explained, that condescended and smirked. It was a smug bastard of a thing, even though she was not. She wore the mask to make others listen to her, and to make herself feel big. She cataloged this mask, and put it away.
The third mask she found was the Mask of Amiability, which she wore among the monkeys that thought she was their friend. It was the mask that laughed and made small talk, that hosted gatherings and smiled broadly. She was often tired, and grumpy, and hungry, and bored, but the mask kept her in their good graces. She cataloged this mask, and put it away.
And so it was that she spent many months, naming and scraping away the things that separated her from the world. And she became difficult to deal with - moody and unpredictable - and so others came to shun her home. But she realized that the Mask of Brooding was another affectation, an archetype she had absorbed from the narratives of others, and so she named and shelved that one as well. She found the Mask of Immaturity, the Mask of Worldliness, the Mask of Indifference and the Mask of the Victim. These things, too, she put away, until at last one night in her house she found the final mask, the Mask of Identity.
"All this time, I have been trying to separate myself from the masks I show others," she said to no one in particular, because though she had already abandoned the Mask of the Mad Genius some habits are really hard to break. "I knew all along that these masks also affect how I see myself, but now I see that even the idea of an identity is itself a mask. The narrative of who I am cakes on my face and hides me as well as any masquerade ball prop. The world is but a masquerade."
She took off the final mask, proud of her enlightenment. She looked in the mirror to learn what she was, and nothing looked back.
They say Humble Lady Ermine lies dreaming, still.
Perfect, QG. So perfect.
Feels good to get it out :)
I feel like this should be the theme of an Intermittens if it hasn't been done.
Which brings me back to what ever happened to the "My Face Cracked" or whatever it was called series????
Quote from: Man Green on October 19, 2012, 04:13:36 AM
Which brings me back to what ever happened to the "My Face Cracked" or whatever it was called series????
Both you and Teh Grimey mentioned it. I may have missed it, or read it while drunk. I don't recall seeing it.
Can someone bump if they know where it is?
Intermittens has had too much intermission. Matter of fact, I don't recall one being put out, aside from Yatto's aborted attempt, since I joined. Dimo's too, but that's a little more understandable.
OH SHIT!!!!
I THINK I FEEL THE WOMP BUILDING UP!!!!!!!!!
and now my brain is on fire
How does this fit in with not confusing the map for the territory?
Quote from: American Jackal on October 19, 2012, 05:14:21 AM
How does this fit in with not confusing the map for the territory?
The idea is still amorphous, as far as I'm concerned, but as I see it the idea that the projection of persona is not necessarily identical to the personality.
Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on October 19, 2012, 05:18:50 AM
Quote from: American Jackal on October 19, 2012, 05:14:21 AM
How does this fit in with not confusing the map for the territory?
The idea is still amorphous, as far as I'm concerned, but as I see it the idea that the projection of persona is not necessarily identical to the personality.
Or further, while you can have a pretty damn accurate map, you cannot have a mask that is not distorted in some way. Every mask, regardless of how many different masks can be made of the same person, will be a caricature, some grotesque, some idealized. But all of them have an inversion. The idealized masks have the blueprint for a grotesque counterpart on the concave side (for the narcissistic) and the grotesque masks have the blueprint for the idealized on the concave (for the perpetually self loathing).
Hmmm...
I hadn't thought of that before, but I like it.
Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on October 19, 2012, 05:24:02 AM
Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on October 19, 2012, 05:18:50 AM
Quote from: American Jackal on October 19, 2012, 05:14:21 AM
How does this fit in with not confusing the map for the territory?
The idea is still amorphous, as far as I'm concerned, but as I see it the idea that the projection of persona is not necessarily identical to the personality.
Or further, while you can have a pretty damn accurate map, you cannot have a mask that is not distorted in some way. Every mask, regardless of how many different masks can be made of the same person, will be a caricature, some grotesque, some idealized. But all of them have an inversion. The idealized masks have the blueprint for a grotesque counterpart on the concave side (for the narcissistic) and the grotesque masks have the blueprint for the idealized on the concave (for the perpetually self loathing).
Hmmm...
I hadn't thought of that before, but I like it.
How does this sound?
Everything you look at is not the thing you are looking at, even yourself. As you look at the territory you make a map. When you look at your face, you make a mask.
Or maybe they are two different metaphors for two different concepts that aren't related.
I think maps are for getting to know what's around you. Masks are different, they're for broadcasting who or what you are. Maps are discovery, masks are communication (or, one kind of communication, anyway).
Masks are who you think you are (at that particular moment) and what you want others to think you are (at that particular moment).
Masks are interchangeable, but whatever the mask communicates to the outside world, and your conscious mind (ie, the role that you are in at the time), the rest of your being is written on the dark side. And on the dark side of the mask, there are always a few words that you will never see on the visible side of any of the masks tailored to the wearer.
Further, some of the things that are consistently on the dark side of the mask, you might not be consciously aware of, either by choice, or inability to see. But they are there. And a part of you knows it.
I need examples.
And ultimately that is why you can never not wear a mask in the presence of another. There are things written on the other side that you don't want others to read, and maybe you don't want to read yourself. So when you are alone and you take off the mask, you naturally cast it aside, and try not to read it.
Quote from: V3X on October 19, 2012, 05:53:13 AM
I need examples.
Ok. So, say you're a closet homosexual, and further, that you refuse to accept that you are gay.
On the back side of each mask that you own, there's a big red "FAG" written right on the forehead. It says fag instead of gay because it is something that you don't like about yourself. You can't admit to yourself that you are gay, and as a result, only have masks that project ubermasculinity or disinterest in relationships.
I think that a mask only really applies in two situations. If we're trying to fool ourselves into thinking that we're something other than what is happening right now in the moment. You have history and memory and they're important too, of course...but I suspect only relatively so.
The other time is when we're around others. I think that some of us might, in varying degrees and at different times, change our behavior based upon who is currently in the environment.
I like the idea of resting in that undefinable place behind the mask where there's nothing in me that keeps you from having to wear a mask in order to relate with me.
ETA: I just watched that TED talk--- LOL YOU COVERED THIS ALREADY HAHAHA :lulz:
Quote from: Bu☆ns on October 19, 2012, 07:08:22 AM
I think that a mask only really applies in two situations. If we're trying to fool ourselves into thinking that we're something other than what is happening right now in the moment. You have history and memory and they're important too, of course...but I suspect only relatively so.
The other time is when we're around others. I think that some of us might, in varying degrees and at different times, change our behavior based upon who is currently in the environment.
I like the idea of resting in that undefinable place behind the mask where there's nothing in me that keeps you from having to wear a mask in order to relate with me.
ETA: I just watched that TED talk--- LOL YOU COVERED THIS ALREADY HAHAHA :lulz:
Right.
But on the other side of the mask is a bunch of shit that's shouting at you, but you can't hear it until you take off the mask, look inside it, and then look at yourself honestly in the mirror.
Quote from: Queen Gogira Pennyworth, BSW on October 19, 2012, 02:07:41 AM
Once upon a time in a city on the river there lived Humble Lady Ermine and the young Queen Gogira. Queen Gogira Pennyworth, Dweller in the Sinking Lands, had come to the city from the swamplands to the west, and there she learned the ways of the Goddess: of Jailbreaking and of Barstools, of Grids and Keeping Your Mouth Shut. These things she shared with Humble Lady Ermine, who was in her own lazy way a conduit for strangeness, and a protectress of the slimy things.
And so it was for many months that they lived together in the house of Lady Ermine, and Queen Gogira said unto her hostess "do you even notice the masks you wear?"
"I wear no mask," insisted Lady Ermine.
"Now come on," scolded Queen Gogira. "Don't be an idiot. Listen to yourself when you speak with Doctor Hand, and listen again when you speak with the Baron. You are not the same person. Even when you're here speaking with me, you are wearing a mask."
Lady Ermine reflected on this wisdom. "I suppose you could be right," she admitted. "But what should I do about it?"
"Fucked if I know!" Queen Gogira snorted.
It was a short conversation, and a boring one at that as no one caught fire or anything, but it weighed on Lady Ermine, and she resolved to get to the bottom of her masks and see what they were hiding.
The first mask she found was the Mask of Submission, which she wore among those monkeys that believed they were more powerful than she. It was the mask that spoke in low tones, that apologized for non-offenses, that scraped and groveled and toed the lines. She had never submitted her will to anyone else's, but she had worn the mask to get things done. She cataloged this mask, and put it away.
The second mask she found was the Mask of Authority, which she wore among those monkeys that believed she was more learned than they. It was the mask that explained, that condescended and smirked. It was a smug bastard of a thing, even though she was not. She wore the mask to make others listen to her, and to make herself feel big. She cataloged this mask, and put it away.
The third mask she found was the Mask of Amiability, which she wore among the monkeys that thought she was their friend. It was the mask that laughed and made small talk, that hosted gatherings and smiled broadly. She was often tired, and grumpy, and hungry, and bored, but the mask kept her in their good graces. She cataloged this mask, and put it away.
And so it was that she spent many months, naming and scraping away the things that separated her from the world. And she became difficult to deal with - moody and unpredictable - and so others came to shun her home. But she realized that the Mask of Brooding was another affectation, an archetype she had absorbed from the narratives of others, and so she named and shelved that one as well. She found the Mask of Immaturity, the Mask of Worldliness, the Mask of Indifference and the Mask of the Victim. These things, too, she put away, until at last one night in her house she found the final mask, the Mask of Identity.
"All this time, I have been trying to separate myself from the masks I show others," she said to no one in particular, because though she had already abandoned the Mask of the Mad Genius some habits are really hard to break. "I knew all along that these masks also affect how I see myself, but now I see that even the idea of an identity is itself a mask. The narrative of who I am cakes on my face and hides me as well as any masquerade ball prop. The world is but a masquerade."
She took off the final mask, proud of her enlightenment. She looked in the mirror to learn what she was, and nothing looked back.
They say Humble Lady Ermine lies dreaming, still.
Fucking coolest thing I've read in ages :mittens:
Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on October 19, 2012, 05:24:02 AM
Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on October 19, 2012, 05:18:50 AM
Quote from: American Jackal on October 19, 2012, 05:14:21 AM
How does this fit in with not confusing the map for the territory?
The idea is still amorphous, as far as I'm concerned, but as I see it the idea that the projection of persona is not necessarily identical to the personality.
Or further, while you can have a pretty damn accurate map, you cannot have a mask that is not distorted in some way. Every mask, regardless of how many different masks can be made of the same person, will be a caricature, some grotesque, some idealized. But all of them have an inversion. The idealized masks have the blueprint for a grotesque counterpart on the concave side (for the narcissistic) and the grotesque masks have the blueprint for the idealized on the concave (for the perpetually self loathing).
Hmmm...
I hadn't thought of that before, but I like it.
THIS.
I think the way this ties in with the map-territory thing is that both are parts of some human tendency to hang on to simplified, orderly, structured, easy-to-understand summaries of reality, rather than dealing with it in all its incomprehensible complexity. The masks are how we try to summarize ourselves, both for ourselves and for others, thereby inevitably ignoring some details, providing a simplified, comprehensible but incomplete picture of who/what we are. But with masks, more than with other maps, there's a lot of emotional baggage attached to our choice of summary – the writing on the back of the mask, the stuff we don't want (certain) people to know/think about us and hence work hard to negate.
Masks are a special case of maps. Masks are maps designed to be confused for the territory (your face.)
The way I approached it was that masks are a story about ourselves. Some of them are really obvious lies, some of them are subtle ones, but all of them in the end are constructs that we create both to relate to others and to relate to ourselves. Like walls, you can try to tear them down, but that's probably much more damaging than leaving things alone. Like bars in the window, we can evaluate the pros and cons of wearing each mask, and try to make better decisions about which ones we wear and which ones get thrown in the drawer.
Twid's point about a mask reflecting inward is a really good one. A mask isn't just something that exists between us and other people, it's something that affects our own ideas about self. And ultimately (in my worldview) the self is an unreliable third person narrator using a single character point of reference. You can't get at the narrator, because anything it says about itself is just part of the story. I wanted to write an example of the narrator creating a mask, but it's not coming out right just yet.
If I get you right, then I totally agree.
Some random thoughts...
Masks are not a bad thing in and of themselves, they're just part of how it works.
There are good and bad masks.
Good masks make the wearer seem "real" and "genuine" and "cool"
Bad masks make the wearer seem "fake" and "twisted" and "uncool"
A lot of the time the wearers themselves don't realise they're wearing a mask
This is because the masks work both ways
Found it: http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php/topic,22460.0.html
My god, what a great thread. I might have something to contribute shortly.
Also, Nigel, I cannot for the life of me find the My Name is thread. I wanted to write something for it.
QG: Standing ovation. Well fucking done.
Quote from: The Waffler on October 19, 2012, 03:53:50 PM
My god, what a great thread. I might have something to contribute shortly.
Also, Nigel, I cannot for the life of me find the My Name is thread. I wanted to write something for it.
Here ya go: http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php/topic,33415.0.html