News:

FUCK YOU! MY UNCLE SAM DIED FROM NOT USING FACTS!

Main Menu

Autonomous drones

Started by Cain, October 03, 2012, 07:17:35 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Cain

I don't see this ever going wrong:

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2012/10/01/professor-drones-will-soon-be-able-to-kill-during-war-without-human-assistance/

QuoteDrones could soon operate without the help of humans.

Agence France-Presse is reporting that the Pentagon wants its drones to be more autonomous, so that they can run with little to no assistance from people.

"Before they were blind, deaf and dumb," Mark Maybury, chief scientist for the U.S. Air Force, told AFP. "Now we're beginning to make them to see, hear and sense."

Ronald Arkin, a professor at the Georgia Institute of Technology, believes that drones will soon be able to kill enemies on their own independently.

"It is not my belief that an unmanned system will be able to be perfectly ethical in the battlefield, but I am convinced that they can perform more ethically than human soldiers are capable of," Arkin told AFP.

Arkin added that robotic weapons should be designed as "ethical" warriors and that these type of robots could wage war in a more "humane" way.

Now, why does this sound like the plot of a techno-thriller?

Oh yeah, because it is:

http://thedaemon.com/killdecisionsynopsis.html

QuoteIt's no secret that America relies on remotely piloted drones to target adversaries overseas. But fifty other nations are developing drones of their own, and the next generation will be much scarier: autonomous machines that acquire and destroy targets without direct human intervention.

Lets just hope that, unlike in the book, no-one gets the smart idea of using behavioural patterns of Weaver ants to program the drones with.

LMNO

Oh, hey.  Check it out.  We just programmed our extinction.

P3nT4gR4m

I can't believe none of them have ever seen Terminator so I can only conclude that they are dumb as fuck. Is there a 13 year old child on the planet who doesn't know how this one goes down?

I'm up to my arse in Brexit Numpties, but I want more.  Target-rich environments are the new sexy.
Not actually a meat product.
Ass-Kicking & Foot-Stomping Ancient Master of SHIT FUCK FUCK FUCK
Awful and Bent Behemothic Results of Last Night's Painful Squat.
High Altitude Haggis-Filled Sex Bucket From Beyond Time and Space.
Internet Monkey Person of Filthy and Immoral Pygmy-Porn Wart Contagion
Octomom Auxillary Heat Exchanger Repairman
walking the fine line line between genius and batshit fucking crazy

"computation is a pattern in the spacetime arrangement of particles, and it's not the particles but the pattern that really matters! Matter doesn't matter." -- Max Tegmark

tyrannosaurus vex

I don't see what all the fuss is about. Robots deciding whether I live or die is better than humans doing it. At least a robot will shoot to kill. Humans make you deal with workplace politics for 50 years first, and then let you die slowly, one Medicaid denial letter at a time.
Evil and Unfeeling Arse-Flenser From The City of the Damned.

The Wizard Joseph

I can foresee a secret override systems button. A little something for when you need the "ethical" part of the program to fail.

"Huh! Well I'll be... looks like the incendiary, anti-personnel self destruct system went a little haywire right here. Good thing this shit's classified or we might have a real lawsuit on our hands!"

I am also really OK with the idea of Ethical Warriors, but this is nearly impossible for a human I imagine, much less a robot. What machine's wires can consider when and how a bullet should be fired? They do what they're told.

As for a more "humane" warfare?
It seems to me that the bad old days when people used to hack each other open until done are a bit more humane than prettymuch everything since WWI. I mean what's stopping such a system from accidentally all over the place with teargas or the much worse options eh?
You can't get out backward.  You have to go forward to go back.. better press on! - Willie Wonka, PBUH

Life can be seen as a game with no reset button, no extra lives, and if the power goes out there is no restarting.  If that's all you see life as you are not long for this world, and never will get it.

"Ayn Rand never swung a hammer in her life and had serious dominance issues" - The Fountainhead

"World domination is such an ugly phrase. I prefer to call it world optimisation."
- Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality :lulz:

"You program the controller to do the thing, only it doesn't do the thing.  It does something else entirely, or nothing at all.  It's like voting."
- Billy, Aug 21st, 2019

"It's not even chaos anymore. It's BANAL."
- Doktor Hamish Howl

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: Cain on October 03, 2012, 07:17:35 PM
I don't see this ever going wrong:

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2012/10/01/professor-drones-will-soon-be-able-to-kill-during-war-without-human-assistance/

QuoteDrones could soon operate without the help of humans.

Agence France-Presse is reporting that the Pentagon wants its drones to be more autonomous, so that they can run with little to no assistance from people.

"Before they were blind, deaf and dumb," Mark Maybury, chief scientist for the U.S. Air Force, told AFP. "Now we're beginning to make them to see, hear and sense."

Ronald Arkin, a professor at the Georgia Institute of Technology, believes that drones will soon be able to kill enemies on their own independently.

"It is not my belief that an unmanned system will be able to be perfectly ethical in the battlefield, but I am convinced that they can perform more ethically than human soldiers are capable of," Arkin told AFP.

Arkin added that robotic weapons should be designed as "ethical" warriors and that these type of robots could wage war in a more "humane" way.

Now, why does this sound like the plot of a techno-thriller?

Oh yeah, because it is:

http://thedaemon.com/killdecisionsynopsis.html

QuoteIt's no secret that America relies on remotely piloted drones to target adversaries overseas. But fifty other nations are developing drones of their own, and the next generation will be much scarier: autonomous machines that acquire and destroy targets without direct human intervention.

Lets just hope that, unlike in the book, no-one gets the smart idea of using behavioural patterns of Weaver ants to program the drones with.

Here we go!  :horrormirth:
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Mesozoic Mister Nigel

"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


The Good Reverend Roger

THIS IS THE HAPPIEST DAY OF MY LIFE.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Don Coyote

Why do I get the feeling I should have reclassed to a drone operator now?

Cain

In Soviet USA, drone operates you.

It'll make you as ethical as shit.

Rococo Modem Basilisk

Didn't we (by which I mean the United States, the Soviet Union, and anybody else who got nuclear capability during or immediately following World War Two) have fully autonomous (for some definition of fully autonomous -- I'm counting dead man's switches) targeting and launching capabilities for ICBMs with nukes on the tips? Drones are at least discriminating; they aren't feasible to use for totally extinguishing a continent, even with the current US military budget.

Autonomy is interesting in the context of asymmetric warfare. Autonomy would finally fundamentally distinguish drones from very expensive remote control airplanes (in other words, our new-and-exciting weapon of the week is no longer something that an upper-middle-class american hobbyist would be able to throw together a passable equivalent for out of his own pocket in a few weeks), but mechanisms for autonomous targeting and navigation are information (and information derivable by a sufficiently intelligent group of people from experimentation, as opposed to the kind of information you have to buy, steal, or leak), which means that once a handful of details are known, the remainder can be deduced with an investment of time (as opposed to equipment). Autonomous drones would initially cost more than remote drones because of the research costs, but reverse engineering is cheaper than forward engineering, and (given that most of the prior work on these topics, so far as I am aware, is in the public domain in the form of academic and hobbyist papers) the capabilities of first-generation autonomous drones can be cheaply replicated -- and groups with little money and few cannonfodder units have much more to gain by arming and making autonomous a fleet of $200 toy airplanes than does the US military.


I am not "full of hate" as if I were some passive container. I am a generator of hate, and my rage is a renewable resource, like sunshine.

Eater of Clowns

KILLING SOME HUMANS BUT NOT ALL HUMANS IS UNETHICAL; PROCEEDING TO KILL ALL HUMANS
Quote from: Pippa Twiddleton on December 22, 2012, 01:06:36 AM
EoC, you are the bane of my existence.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 07, 2014, 01:18:23 AM
EoC doesn't make creepy.

EoC makes creepy worse.

Quote
the afflicted persons get hold of and consume carrots even in socially quite unacceptable situations.

tyrannosaurus vex

I can't wait to cheat the programming by raising an Al Qaeda flag over my asshole neighbor's house.
Evil and Unfeeling Arse-Flenser From The City of the Damned.

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Phosphatidylserine on October 03, 2012, 11:46:46 PM
Didn't we (by which I mean the United States, the Soviet Union, and anybody else who got nuclear capability during or immediately following World War Two) have fully autonomous (for some definition of fully autonomous -- I'm counting dead man's switches) targeting and launching capabilities for ICBMs with nukes on the tips?

No.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Faust

A bunch of drones got hacked, stolen and sold on recently. Bizarre behaviour could easily be mistaken for bugs in the autonomous mode when it could just as easily be someone exploiting it for murderous shits and giggles.
Sleepless nights at the chateau