Define "metal".

[AFK]

Without snark, I think whoever said that metal was the blues minus the entire SOUL part was on the money.

Metal is very loud non-blues that white people play to other white people. Yes, that sounds racist, but whenever black people have tried to play metal, it just becomes really awesome rock n roll.

Not sure if I agree with that entirely.

But anyway, Metal has no soul because you have to make a pact with the devil first.

I think metal definitely has soul, though maybe not the same kind of soul in the context of blues. 


I would say early 90s Corrosion of Conformity had soul, definitely had some swagger to it.

[AFK]

Hmm. I don't know your references, and I totally said it wrong when I used the word "tried".

I'm thinking of Living Color, Bad Brains, even Kings X -- they just don't sound "metal".

In a way, I guess I consider Metal to be straightforward aggression, and--

Oh.

Oh wait.





DAMN YOU, POSITIVE STEREOTYPES WHICH STILL, AFTER ALL IS SAID AND DONE, STILL STEREOTYPES!

Stuck Mojo
Sepultura
Suffocation
Cyclone Temple
God Forbid
Suicidal Tendencies


not all-black bands but all bands with black members who were integral to the sound of the band, and all, IMO, very metal bands.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Anarchangel has no soul.

It's ok.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Note, obviously we're all honkies too. And Hibernians to boot.

[LMNO]

Just to be clear, hardcore bands I love like Minor Threat and Black Flag also had no soul. And much of the No Wave NYC movement and a hell of a lot of Skronky post punk was aggressively anti soul. 

So that's not really a bad thing.




By the way, it's totally cool for this thread to go off in minor musical tangents, because it was a music thread to start with.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Just to be clear, hardcore bands I love like Minor Threat and Black Flag also had no soul. And much of the No Wave NYC movement and a hell of a lot of Skronky post punk was aggressively anti soul. 

So that's not really a bad thing.




By the way, it's totally cool for this thread to go off in minor musical tangents, because it was a music thread to start with.

Well, I guess I'm a little unclear about what you mean by soul, but I imagine that it's one of those hard to make a call on descriptors, like Metal. But, correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, L, I'm going to make it a point to listen to "I Believe in Incans" tomorrow.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Wait, does this mean you love my band?

Awww.

Twid,
makes no assumptions, even if tolerance/passing likeness is implied.

[LMNO]

If I was going to be pretentious, it would be something about "the beat" -- whether you're behind it, in the pocket, or riding it.

To me, most metal is riding, pushing the beat, aggressively pursuing it. My opinion is that soul is deep in the pocket, sometimes even to the point of being behind it. But that's me as a drummer speaking.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

If I was going to be pretentious, it would be something about "the beat" -- whether you're behind it, in the pocket, or riding it.

To me, most metal is riding, pushing the beat, aggressively pursuing it. My opinion is that soul is deep in the pocket, sometimes even to the point of being behind it. But that's me as a drummer speaking.

I always felt soul to be a vocal thing. But you are, after all, a drummer, and I am after all, a vocalist (and a closet bassist)

[Nephew Twiddleton]

That said, I can definitely see that. Metal is very guitar driven. And the main drum bits you hear are the rapid, incessant double kick.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

There's also a side thing.

A Metalhead may describe something as Metal that is not Metal.

It is at that point, synonymous with awesome/brutal/cringeworthy.


A Metalhead may also describe a non-Metal band in terms of Metalness, as long as they don't call them Metal flat out. For example, the Canadian band The Tea Party, I describe as "pretty Metal" when talking to other Metalheads. I even file their CDs among my Metal CDs.




Hmmm.... thought forming.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Metal has certain parameters. Metal needs not meet all these parameters at once. And meeting with some, even most of these parameters does not necessarily mean Metal. I suppose it's like a messed up Venn diagram. So, here we go, with counter examples:

Metal is:
Fast
Loud
Technically proficient
Lyrically dark
Emotionally dark
Sonically heavy
Satan

Now lets say you get loud, lyrically dark, emotionally dark, and sonically heavy. That could be Metal. Or it could be screamo. Or Goth. Conversely there are Emperor songs that are slow (for Emperor- tempo is relative), lyrically dark and Satan and be heavy. Or you can have loud and Satan and have AC/DC.

Note also that Motorhead has all of these, not necessarily all at once, but is yet not Metal, but yet yet, universally listened to by Metalheads (EoC is kinda right. Lemmy is not Metal. But if you don't listen to Motorhead, neither are you).

In a similar vein, you can have all of these, but if your Satan implies sympathy for Jesus, you lose all Metal. Christianity is only Metal in how it adversely affects humanity.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Actually, just watch Metalocalypse. The whole thing. It will also explain some of the ambiguities like when Toki goes home to Norway to see his father die, and the rest of the non-Norwegian band complain that Norway, despite Metal notoriety and Black Metal church arsons and murders, is not Metal because it has a lower murder rate and... well... Black Metal hipsterism (I believe the band was called "My Horse is Dead")

It simultaneously shows how Metal and non-Metal everything is.

Just remember, brutal is synonymous to Metal.


Metal is relative.

Metal is in the ear of the listener.



Twid,
Thinks Johnny Cash is Metal.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Metal is a solid material that is typically hard, shiny, malleable, fusible, and ductile, with good electrical and thermal conductivity.

[hunter s.durden]

4 fucking pages and this thread hasn't turned into a flame war about how horrible everyone's taste in music is?
Fuck!
I Will pick 5 random songs on my music player, those will be metal, we will argue:
1. Debaser - Pixies
2. Die, Die My Darling - Misfits
3. The Badge - Pantera (Poison Idea)
4. The Matlock theme
5. Spit Your Game - Notorious B.I.G

Damn. Metal as fuck. There's your answers.