Messages

No, I think Rat's got a point (and I keep hearing "If Telarus had the inclination, he could start a cult to rival Scientology" from my cabal-mates).

Memes are an emergent behavior of the lower substrate of abstract concepts (previously limited to one mind, or to the 'clan memory' that verbal communication provides) that have found a path to replication (on a multi-node human-based network, now using external memory in the forms of books and computer systems), and thus a competitive ecology.

BTW, this whole thread is full of win.

[YOU CANNOT CRITICALLY EXAMINE THEM]

How about that if we can't measure it, we have NO reason to think it exists.  Especially when the idea came from superstitious apes.
If we have no reason to think things exist without measurements, then why did we even create the measurements?

You mean if it's misused.  Just like any tool Occam's Razor can be misapplied, but that doesn't mean it's not useful.  I can use a hammer to smash somebody's skull in, but that doesn't mean it's not a tool for construction.
A hammer which is essentially a type of club was used was a tool of destruction long before being used as a tool of construction. Either way, it is merely a tool and not a means to justify its use.

What makes your belief solid?  I don't think you've ever provided any reasoning for it.  I can provide reasoning for why I don't think there is a soul.  Mostly that thought processes can be explained using chemistry and invoking the supernatural doesn't actually add anything to the explanation.
My belief is solid because I continue to hold my belief despite people telling I am a fool or an idiot or insane.  It is solid as it has yet to ever fail me.  Even in times of torment and pain, it has remained steadfast and resolute.  If I told you what I have experienced and the things I have seen and encountered you would still refuse to accept such a belief until it was experienced first hand.  So stop asking for proof.  There is a reason it is called belief.

Then follow it and show us the data.
Refer to previous statement

Burden of proof asswipe.  Logically we don't assume that something exists until it is evidence (or measured).
Does the color red cease to exist simply because there are people blind to it?

When is your model useful?  What has your model accomplished?  There's a lot of bullshit out there and you seem to be spouting it.

When is my model useful?  Really, you cannot see the possible use of using the scientific to help explain the spiritual?  Hmmm....what could possibility be a benefit to having a unified answer to some of the most heated question on the face of this planet?  If you can't see the potential of using a structured scientific platform to bring order to the chaos which is religion than by all means, ignore it.

The problem isn't if your model is or is not useful.

The fact is that as currently expressed by you, your model is INCOHERENT.

On the true/false/meaningless map, all of the dots are clustered around MEANINGLESS, but you think you can get to 'truth' by jumping from dot to dot.

Thus, your clinging to the model (or appearing to), without examining why your model is INCOHERENT, is the definition of Fundamentalism used upthread.

(Not that the beliefs are 'fundamental' to your worldview, but that YOU CANNOT CRITICALLY EXAMINE THEM.)

We're not ridiculing your experiences or your model of them, simply commenting on how well you can communicate them.

Namaste'

"Small groups of young, intelligent people can make any society, creed or idea function. Communists, sadomasochists, anarchists, greifers, pornographers, Furries, trollers, crank callers and even Discordians have been able to create communities that are not merely functional, but stylish and even somehow honourable. Therefore, the true test of any meme or theory is how well it fares when exposed to large quantities of 'normal' people."

I feel the urge to quote you as Count Alfred Rhazi. Wtf.

[Agree with me]

My no-nonsense neo-pagan not-a-witch friend rolled into one of the local herbariums here in Portland. Upon chatting the cute, dreadlocked pagan behind the counter, said employee says, "Y'know, you really can't trust any of the doctors. Right?"

Stop.

Matrix pan to the right, as the scene flickers and revolves my friend finds herself thinking, "This chick is a fluffy idiot. Of course you have to trust some doctors, or the basis of society begins to breakdown as highly contagious diseases ravage large geographic areas. This person is stoooopid, and I don't need to take her seriously anymore."

Meanwhile, the cute register girl has merely made the semantic mistake of using language that references some imaginary state of 'Reality' where all medical professionals will cut your kidney out to sell on EbayChina, when what she really meant to express was: "Gee, some doctors I've gone to have refused to treat me like a human being, and that makes me Angry. Agree with me and we can hang out, 'cause our memes like each other and we can bitch about the medical profession, except this one cute doctor I saw..yadda, yadda, yadda."

Needless to say my friend left without buying anything, and she kept the grrrArghStoopidItHurts karma back home long enough to complain about it on liveJournal.

But public school and society has taught the cute register girl only to use language that references an external-objective reality and not internal-subjective space, so it goes through the USA2008 Filter and comes out, "Y'know, you really can't trust any of the doctors. Right?"

I figure nearly 40-60% of human miscommunication is due to the participants crunching incoming language signals through the wrong Grid, internal-emotional-I-space or external-nonsimultaneously~apprehended-objective-space. See, cute register girl was still making an accurate statement about part of Universe.... just the part in her brain-sack and meme-collection.

This is one of the most overlooked themes in NLP and most Occult systems, and 'is' the dualism embedded in our language that practices such as Zen sitting and walking meditations (and getting hit with sticks) tries to escape, if ever briefly, from.

WHERE ARE YOU RIGHT NOW

Meme Collections: Gotta Catch them All.
~Hi, I'm Telarus, and I'm a Zenarchist Discordian, Erisian Pope, Illuminatus Primi, and Commodore to the Floating Republic of Mu. This comes in handy as I lounge in New Alamut, discussing LULZ and SRS BSNS with my Discordian, Subgenious, Satanic, Thelemic, Technocculty, Occultnik, Non-Linear, Weird friends. We hit each other with sticks. We're not fluffy and we never wear fuzzy bunny ears, except when we do. We're all Absolutely Infallible, except when we're not. Welcome to the EndGame, Aftermath, 2008. War is a fiction, join a Faction.

You forgot the whipped cream.

Just a thought: would physics allow for near 100% transfer of kinetic energy between two bodies? Obviously we aren't working in a frictionless environment, but if an object in motion struck an object at rest with the proper relative amount of kinetic energy and at the proper location could the kinetic energy, aside from heat loss be near completely transfered without any other loss of motion besides friction and heat?

Ok, so here's the thing with linear Chi and circular/spherical Chi.

I throw a linear punch, you swing your arm in for an inside block. The two vectors com in line this -->|, with the arrow being your block and the vert pipe being the vector of my punch (seen from the top). This 'hard style' block would knock my attack at a diagonal vector away from it's target, but a lot of the blocker and some of the attackers energy is lost into the impact (shock absorbed by the flesh, muscular and skeletal sytems) and a little heat.

Compare to circular reaching trapping motions. At contact, the defender's motion is already traveling at a similar vector to the attack, and it just needs to blend, meet, and then exert a little control in order to throw:

Heat? I guess that would make sense. Temperature control is known from Buddhist monks, so it certainly would manipulatable to some extent.

Uuuumm. They claim to have bounced a signal around a 60 degree corner with a mirror, and have used optical-only filters to block Chi signals that aren't blocked by near-infrared and infrared only filters. The wildly fringe-scientific aspect of the experiential setup is that they are using other humans as detection devices (usually blindfolded). I mean, sure, the 5th commandment of the pentabarf crops up here, but it's an interesting read to consider.

That was Season 1 Ep 7 of time Warp (which I missed  , looking for it right now).

[mininova].org/tor/1986025

for anyone interested.

[Mass and Energy are one and the same only in different states. The body requires energy to function. When a body dies that energy is gone. As that energy has mass, it can be concluded that when a body dies its mass decreases due to the energy becoming non-existent. Where that energy goes?]

Thanks Rat for bringing up the Chi thread. Prana/Qi/Chi.. all the terms lead back to signifiers for 'breath/movement/that which makes a living thing live'.

This whole thread is a clusterfuck of semantic tentacle-demon anime porn concepts trading labels like masks to confuse you all.

'Energy' in science (~science: a (meta)language that deals in observer-observed repeatable phenomena) means the ability to do work, to change the environment/subjects of the environment.

But in every day parlance, words can signify into two 'NameSpaces', the objectified-external non-simultaneously-apprehended Universe, and the subjective internally-projected mental-emotional I-space.

~ A ball of mass m is placed at a distance h above the end of a vertical spring. The ball is then released and compresses the spring. The elastic constant of the spring is k. What is the maximum spring deformation? Show the Kinetic Energy, the Gravitational Potential Energy, and the Elastic Potential Energy at the beginning and end of the experiment. Assume no friction.




~"She's got so much pep and energy", her co-worker exclaimed.
~"Hey Bob, you look terrible. Run out of energy?" asked Fred.

Are either two characters talking about how far a steam-engine can push a 25lb weight? No, they are discussing some-one's internal mental state as expressed through the body.

Words can signify into two 'NameSpaces', the objectified-external non-simultaneously-apprehended Universe, and the subjective internally-projected mental-emotional I-space. And here you are tossing the word 'Semantics' out like it's a fortune-cookie, merely something to ad a cheap joke to for a laugh.

SEMANTICS are the basis of all communication. Pay attention to your semantics, for the spaces between semantics are where the Fnords live. The best way we've found to model Information uses terms like Negative Entropy, and Coherence.

Which leads us to this gem:

So first off, yes, I do believe in a soul.  Now for the brain hurty part of the post.

Most religions and beliefs share that a human/talking monkey holds some sort of cosmic energy that exist through out the universe and have called it a soul.  Here is we know from various speculations out there.  Mass and Energy are one and the same only in different states.  The body requires energy to function.  When a body dies that energy is gone.  As that energy has mass, it can be concluded that when a body dies its mass decreases due to the energy becoming non-existent.  Where that energy goes? Who knows, but we know it must go somewhere as if it didn't the body would just keep moving about on its own.  Maybe that is how zombies come into existence, dead bodies that fail to discharge properly.

Or I could be lying.

What he's really asking is about the body's Coherence, it's Coordination, it's Will, it's Chi. The ability for it to coordinate enough muscles to suddenly hoist up the jury rigged scaffolding of bones and sinew and run the fuck away from me as I swing my blade at it. Whatever Coherence it has usually leaves after the body gets stabbed a few times and loses Coordination of breath and circulation.

WHERE DOES THE SIGNAL GO! he means to scream.

But no, he mistakenly grabs the term 'Energy' from the societal narrative and then runs to the Model that has claimed that term, Energy. The proponents of the Model point and laugh at him.

Strife allows a smile to flutter on her lips. Semantics.

Yay Us!

BTW, dolphins and corvids (ravens/crows) have been shown to be 'self aware' in that they can recognize themselves as a specific individual when shown their reflection in a mirror.

This.


And anyway, if you read the last two links I posted, they claim to have measured near-infrared wavelengths as on of the energy components to Chi/Ki/Qi. I'm not _too_ sure how well controled their experiemtn was, but it was interesting to read about, none the less.

I'm digging up more research now.

What really jumped out at me was the method of saturating a public space with sigils. If they are tagged to some kind of icon, and scattered around, would they affect public behavior. For example, if you add a weird looking scribble, and the tag "Check your feet" onto a couple of Postergasm posters, and then scatter just the weird little scribble on random places (to saturate a given sapce).... would people look down more?

What would happen in a few weeks later a new poster that said "Look up more" appeared.

The quote from the above article was just a little snippet taken out of their closing. The entire article is really worth reading thro. They have correlated Ki activity with energy in the near-infrared range, and produced repeatable effects involving bouncing it with mirrors.

Here's an earlier study by the same people from 2006:

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1475930

Found an interesting quote. Notice the URL.
http://ecam.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/nem102

In the pioneering work by Shinagawa (31) and Kawano et al. (36), it was shown that Qi-energy emitted from a Qigong healer carried some form of information. They demonstrated that the brainwave distributions of both the volunteer and the healer became synchronized even when Qi was sent from behind the volunteer.

BUMP. Now read this:
http://www.technoccult.com/archives/2008/11/08/zen-werewolf-presents-embued-spaces-technosigilic-approaches-for-hypersaturation-of-intent/

Zen Werewolf Presents: Embued Spaces - Technosigilic Approaches for Hypersaturation of Intent
November 8th, 2008 by Klintron @ Technoccult

    By summary of way, this article intends to reframe your understanding of literacy before condensing the bulk of the content presented across the body of the document down to four simple steps for deeper exploration. First off, you'll note the pretentious title. Before we get started, let me ask you to click this link. Don't worry, it'll open in an entirely new window, and you won't lose your place here. I asked you to click the link to distract you from the pretentious title, but that title is likely what lead you to read at least the first three sentences in this paragraph. What does this mean?

Full Story: Foolish People

Done with the article?

Now rethink the whole experimental setup we have going here, knowing what you now know after having read that article.