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HAY ALTY, YOU SHOULD LEAVE ALASKA.

Started by Salty, November 09, 2014, 11:29:59 PM

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Eater of Clowns

Quote from: The Suu on November 10, 2014, 07:26:15 PM
You know I'm on your side with this. Because I'm equally a terrible fucking human being.

Actually, no. Roger I just disagree with.

You advocated suicide. That's vile.
Quote from: Pippa Twiddleton on December 22, 2012, 01:06:36 AM
EoC, you are the bane of my existence.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 07, 2014, 01:18:23 AM
EoC doesn't make creepy.

EoC makes creepy worse.

Quote
the afflicted persons get hold of and consume carrots even in socially quite unacceptable situations.

Suu

Quote from: Doktor Howl on November 10, 2014, 07:32:26 PM
Quote from: The Suu on November 10, 2014, 07:26:15 PM
You know I'm on your side with this. Because I'm equally a terrible fucking human being.

Well, we can be asshats together, then.

:asshat:
Sovereign Episkopos-Princess Kaousuu; Esq., Battle Nun, Bene Gesserit.
Our Lady of Perpetual Confusion; 1st Church of Discordia

"Add a dab of lavender to milk, leave town with an orange, and pretend you're laughing at it."

Doktor Howl

Quote from: Cain on November 10, 2014, 07:34:40 PM
I've been reading this since the start.

I don't really know what to say...the impression I've gotten is that a lot of things were said in PMs or their facebook equivalent, so I'm hesistant to get involved in any situation where I don't know the facts.

That said, I can see a lot of people are upset so, for what it's worth, I don't think less of anyone in this thread, and if anyone wants someone to talk to...well, you know how to get in contact with me.

Yeah, but neither did you take some time out of your day to tell me what an asshole I am, Cain. 
Molon Lube

Junkenstein

Quote from: Doktor Howl on November 10, 2014, 07:32:07 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on November 10, 2014, 07:28:57 PM

Personally, I like you both so I'd prefer it if you both sorted this shit out, somehow.

Not in this lifetime.

Fair enough. As I said, not privy to half the shit it's about. Until this morning I assumed you guys were friends and all was relatively good. Then, well, ALL THIS SHIT.

Anyway, message received, not the best thread to attempt comedy asides.
Nine naked Men just walking down the road will cause a heap of trouble for all concerned.

Doktor Howl

Quote from: Eater of Clowns on November 10, 2014, 07:35:01 PM

Actually, no. Roger I just disagree with.

Disagreement implies that there was an exchange of ideas in the first place.  You had me convicted on accusation, our PM exchange made that perfectly clear.

So there was no "disagreement".
Molon Lube

Doktor Howl

Quote from: Junkenstein on November 10, 2014, 07:36:37 PM
Until this morning I assumed you guys were friends and all was relatively good.

I haven't spoken badly about him, or even about him PERIOD, because what he did was so egregious, so offensive, that I really preferred not to think of him at all.  He simply fell off of my radar.

Besides, I have better things to do than start the FUCK ALTY club when he's not even around.

So I can see where you might make that assumption.
Molon Lube

Suu

He's my gory details, less gory than Roger's:

Alty lamented his lack of friends in open bar, and I simply said, as we all have in the past, as a joke, that he should move. He went on the defensive, and then made this thread, with apparently no intention of calling me out, but still calling me out, because he made the fucking thread.

At this point, Roger and I were sharing WTFs in IM, while I consoled him about his daughter. I was willing to be okay with Alty, and even posted a, "Dude, if you need to talk, I can give you my number" post in Open Bar, but when I saw this, all bets were off. He couldn't have just said, "Suu, joke is old. Stop." Or even a more positive, "Hey Suu, thanks for replying to my melodramatic shitstorm of a life, that means you actually care."

No. He made another thread to call me out.

I don't have enough fucking patience in my life to deal with this level of assholicism. If he didn't want to get a response to his lamenting in Open Bar, he shouldn't have fucking posted to begin with. He's not the only person who had to deal with an abusive marriage, and I get that, I really do, and I was no fucking saint on this board after my divorce, but the limit has been reached. As far as Roger and I go. YMMV.

I'm going to write some papers now.
Sovereign Episkopos-Princess Kaousuu; Esq., Battle Nun, Bene Gesserit.
Our Lady of Perpetual Confusion; 1st Church of Discordia

"Add a dab of lavender to milk, leave town with an orange, and pretend you're laughing at it."

Eater of Clowns

Quote from: Doktor Howl on November 10, 2014, 07:37:23 PM
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on November 10, 2014, 07:35:01 PM

Actually, no. Roger I just disagree with.

Disagreement implies that there was an exchange of ideas in the first place.  You had me convicted on accusation, our PM exchange made that perfectly clear.

So there was no "disagreement".

I disagree.
Quote from: Pippa Twiddleton on December 22, 2012, 01:06:36 AM
EoC, you are the bane of my existence.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 07, 2014, 01:18:23 AM
EoC doesn't make creepy.

EoC makes creepy worse.

Quote
the afflicted persons get hold of and consume carrots even in socially quite unacceptable situations.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: Doktor Howl on November 10, 2014, 03:48:02 PM
Also, there's a bit more here than meets the eye, which I didn't spell out because I didn't think I had to.  I can go into gory details - at least to some degree - if it's important to anyone.

But the short and skinny is, I don't fucking like the guy, and I don't feel that I did anything out of line.

One person (Nigel) has said that she's not speaking to me until I change my mind (and let me tell you how awesome the timing is on THAT).  I ain't gonna change my fucking mind.  No way, no how.

Actually, I said that I'm not speaking to you until you pull your head out of your ass and start talking like a reasonable person, and not like a catastrophist.

I'm not asking you to like Alty. But if you want me to believe that you decided to jump on Suu's Suicide-Advocacy Bandwagon just now, not because you're stressed and upset about something else, but because you've been building up resentment against him for the last 14 months and rationally decided to wait until just now, when he's expressing vulnerability, to dump it on him, then you're not talking about something I can accept -- being stressed and upset and acting like an asshole in the moment -- but about something I can't accept because it is wrong and not what I believe to be true of you, as my friend.

Someone acting like an asshole doesn't have to mean end of the world, that's it, done, cut off forever. Sometimes, people act like assholes because people act like assholes sometimes, and that's normal and human and forgivable. It is also normal and human to backward-rationalize having acted like an asshole, for a while anyway.

What Suu said was unacceptable, and it is unlike you to not only defend her but to pile on alongside her. I hope that at some point you, also, see that.

I'll still be here and be your friend when you get over this. But in the meantime I don't want to argue about it or get pulled into the kind of argument that ends in not wanting to be friends, so I'll be avoiding this thread.

"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: The Suu on November 10, 2014, 07:40:27 PM
He's my gory details, less gory than Roger's:

Alty lamented his lack of friends in open bar, and I simply said, as we all have in the past, as a joke, that he should move. He went on the defensive, and then made this thread, with apparently no intention of calling me out, but still calling me out, because he made the fucking thread.

At this point, Roger and I were sharing WTFs in IM, while I consoled him about his daughter. I was willing to be okay with Alty, and even posted a, "Dude, if you need to talk, I can give you my number" post in Open Bar, but when I saw this, all bets were off. He couldn't have just said, "Suu, joke is old. Stop." Or even a more positive, "Hey Suu, thanks for replying to my melodramatic shitstorm of a life, that means you actually care."

No. He made another thread to call me out.

I don't have enough fucking patience in my life to deal with this level of assholicism. If he didn't want to get a response to his lamenting in Open Bar, he shouldn't have fucking posted to begin with. He's not the only person who had to deal with an abusive marriage, and I get that, I really do, and I was no fucking saint on this board after my divorce, but the limit has been reached. As far as Roger and I go. YMMV.

I'm going to write some papers now.

You overreacted, badly, and said something that is pretty close to completely unforgivable to someone who is stressed and depressed. I'm not saying that Alty was right or that his behavior was grand... you can go to page 1 of this thread to see what I have to say about that, but in no way, shape, or form was his passive-aggressive response to once again getting blamed for his own situation (yes, that IS what it comes across as when people tell him to move) deserving of being told to kill himself.

If you are neither a coward nor a shitty human being, you should be able to see that. Until then, go fuck yourself, you suck.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Or join TDS on Facebook, they embrace that kind of behavior there.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Doktor Howl

Quote from: Sexy St. Nigel on November 10, 2014, 07:52:08 PM

I'm not asking you to like Alty. But if you want me to believe that you decided to jump on Suu's Suicide-Advocacy Bandwagon just now, not because you're stressed and upset about something else, but because you've been building up resentment against him for the last 14 months and rationally decided to wait until just now, when he's expressing vulnerability, to dump it on him, then you're not talking about something I can accept -- being stressed and upset and acting like an asshole in the moment -- but about something I can't accept because it is wrong and not what I believe to be true of you, as my friend.

I dumped on him because 1) he showed up, and 2) he was immediately a prick.  And I wasn't being a catastrophist, I fucking hate the guy for who he is. 


QuoteWhat Suu said was unacceptable, and it is unlike you to not only defend her but to pile on alongside her. I hope that at some point you, also, see that.

I have stated that I did not approve of that comment.  I feel that it was rash and wrong-headed, and I don't think Suu meant to say it, and for some reason now she can't or won't withdraw the comment.  But I am also not going to dump on Suu, because she and Cain were the only two people to not shit all over me or stand wringing their hands in the last two go-rounds.  I would not feel that way if I thought she made the comment in cold blood, even if she was talking about that shitball up in Alaska.

QuoteI'll still be here and be your friend when you get over this.

I suppose it would depend on what you mean by "this".  If you mean Alty, that isn't ever going away.  If you mean being ferociously pissed off, that will probably ease up in a day or two.
Molon Lube

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Since apparently nobody clicked the link when EOC posted it, here, once again, is Alty's lengthy explanation (after giving a number of shorter explanations) for why he has not moved yet and is really sick of people telling him he needs to move:

Quote from: ALASKA on December 17, 2013, 10:57:08 PM
Just didn't really want this in AT.

This is gonna be verbose, so hold onto your asses.

I do actually hate getting advice, any kind. I am full of pride and arrogance, and I trust my own intuition more than any single person I know 99% of the time.

Most of the time advice I am given is something I have thought about millions and millions of times already. I do almost everything in life by myself, as I have done.

This has only recently changed and there is no greater catalyst for my ability do be around other people, to act without fear, than my son. You people have done a great deal, but would I give a damn at all without him?

I started posting on this forum the year he was born. That's the year I changed my name.

Some of you know my name, and it is a funny one. It is also not the one on my birth certificate.

Ooh, it's gonna get personal now.

0-2

Born in a German hospital I lose any claim to Presidency, which is a damn shame. My dad was a helicopter mechanic for the Army. My mother attended a Catholic-Hungarian boarding school I have no idea how my single grandmother could afford.

My grandmother on my mother's side is an evil old alcoholic from Serbia who cleaned upper class German houses for 25 years. She has severe mental illness that has been untreated (excepting congac) for her entire life.

She saw my father and mother making googely eyes on a boat near the Vilhelma Zoo, walked over to him and told him to talk to my mother.

New Years Eve - 1984

"Don't worry, you don't get pregnant the first time," -Dad.

My mom dropped out of school, as she had no choice, in her final year. They stayed with my grandmother and then...

ZOOOOM

2-4

Kentucky.

ZOOOOM

5

Alaska

My dad always wanted to see it. That's why we came here. He always had ze wanderlust, he's a rambler, that one. Or was. I got it real bad too. I hate staying in one place. Hate it. I could live in a brand new place every three months and you would see a very happy Alty.

ZOOOOM

7

I used to be a JR. My current name, which a bunch of you know, is not the one on my birth certificate.

Shortly before my parents split, shortly after my father threw me into a wall because he was casually disgusted with me, something my mother never knew, I wondered: why? Why didn't I get my own name?

Then, the split. The military elementary school had a counselor, and after my mom had told me she was divorcing my father and that my sister and I would be living with her and only her, they pulled me out of class and into this group called Banana Splits :lulz:

On the first day we made a construction paper banana split. Dad and mom are choclolate and strawberry on the outside, and in the middle was vanilla me. It only took them about a week to realize I didn't need any counseling. When my mom told me what was happening relief such as I have never again experienced washed over me. I knew, at 7, that my life was going to be an altogether sweeter thing. I knew with absolute certainty that if things had continued on I would have been truly miserable, probably abused more.

My mother had already gotten a job at Burger King, and used it to aqcuire a brand new Honda Civic (loleconomy) in anticipation for leaving my dad. Which is funny because HE offered divorce as an ultimatum: You either stay home with me instead of going out on the town with your brother who you haven't seen in 5 years or DIVORCE!

LOL.

So moving into a shitty apartment wasn't all the difficult. And beautiful.

Through my whole childhood I never once resented having things. I had TV, I had enough food not to starve to death, and I was FREEEEEEEEEEEEEE.

8

This is the year I learned my father was an idiot and a coward and that I had to make every attempt to not be anything like him.

9-13

Thing happened. Many things. I grew up here, in the cold and the dark, watching TV and eating junk food and being afraid of boy and men, but also just people. Men come in and out of my mother's life. They are all losers. Even the lesbian. All of them, except my stepdad, who treats me right, keeps my grandmother from verbally, emotionally, and physically abusing me. He worked hard a shit job right next to my mom to build something together. She divorced him for no reason/my grandmother's influence.

I called that guy dad. Oh well.

Nothing with my father. He sent occasional letters and stopped once he realized I was never going to write back. To this day I still don't send people letters, other than Discordians. Letters can be full of meaning, but when I know you just don't give a shit and are still capable of sending me words, well, words are plenty fickle then, aren't they?

But then I went to stay with my paternal grandmother. I was 12, it was summer in Arkansas. My father found out and decided he needed to get his shit together, make some money, and save some by staying with his mom as well. That his children were going to be there was at first incidental, then obnoxious. Two weeks in he called my mother to ask her to have us come back.

42 at this point, he has no teeth. He wears full dentures because his teeth rotted from the inside out and vice versa. That happens when you chew, smoke two cartons a week, and drink Folgers like it's going out of production. He watches Walker Texas Ranger and claps his hands like a child, a stupid child, when Walker roundhouse kicks the bad guy. The man nearly leaps out of his chair with excitement. A big Chuck Norris fan, my dad.

He also thinks the wrestler Chyna is just the hottest piece of ass in the known universe.

:horrormirth:

It's then when I realize just how different this man is from, foreign. Foreign. I LOOK a lot more like my uncle Bill. Which is probably why dad wanted nothing from me.

Bill was the baby and he was the favorite. Of EVERYONE HE EVER MET. Charismatic, funny, blunt, loud, successful, and as ignorant and racist as most white people below the mason-dixon. My uncle Bill was a lawyer for Walmart (hopefully battling millions of impovrished employees) who died in a car crash after going into a diabetic coma on the way home. My grandfather wrote a book called: My Son, a Gift From God. It was not about my father.

Yet whatever genetics passed my father's way seemed to gloss over the looks sort of laterally. Or something. You get what I mean. That must have been a kick in the dick.


13-18


I talked to the man after I graduated. He called and said he was going to Russia to get heli-mechanic work, make a bunch of money, and then come to AK to "spend some time with you kids".

*cricket song*

2009

The year my son was born. The year my whole life changed and my brain got all weird, but better. Also the year I started posting on this forum.

Before I changed my legal name I called him. Right when I had the money and the paperwork ready to go, I gave the stupid bastard a last chance.

I tracked him down by (somehow) finding HIS father, also discovering his parents came from Germany in 1923(?) so I come from bona fide immigrant stock on both ends.

"You're going to be a grandfather," I said.
"Yeah I know, my mom told me," he said.
"You're free to come up here any time and meet him," I said, quite graciously.
"Well, I think it'll probably be easier for you to just fly here," he said.

To Florida. It is easier for me to drag my infant son, his toddler (1/2) brother, and their mother to Florida from AK than it is to get his dumb ass into a single seat.

Ok. Thanks Dad for making that easy for me.

That's him, and that's it. He got on FB and I applied my maximum self, much the same way I handled my cousin. More crickets. This time I really DID kick him in the dick.

Now, I now that getting out of AK is best for me. And I know that if I leave my son alone, in the dark and the cold, with NOBODY who has a brain like his (like mine) because I FEEL bad I am not going to be like my father.

But that's not all there is so let's keep going.

I chose something I found, and the last name of my maternal grandfather because he is the sweetest, kindest, smartest man in my family and in my life. That old man, his story goes something like this:

Meet a Serbian woman who was probably abused by her father, who is an alcoholic, who will eventually beat your first and only grandson. Marry her, have two girls with her. She goes fully evil at a tender age and chops him off like a bad wound. Court battles, such as they are in that part of the world do not go well. Who knows exactly what happened.

But this woman leaves with your girls, marries another man, has a son, and then moves to another country. THEN she tells your children you want nothing to do with them, that you abandoned them. You know nothing of this.

I didn't meet this man until 2006. He didn't see his daughter from 196?-2006.

Basically, the same thing happened to me.

I don't know where the other kid who is supposed to be mine is at. This OTHER MOTHER halted my efforts to set up child support. I got swabbed any everything. I am not sure if this other kid is even mine. I am so fortunate, BLESSED even, to be allowed the opportunity to be around my son, to get to help shape his view of the world, to help keep his perspective clear, to give his mind and brain the best possible start they can hope to have.

And I am working hard to not just supply the needs of the son I do get to spend time with, but to also have enough resources and time to take the other to court because that's the only way.

So, maybe you can see now. I don't get mad when people tell me to move out of Alaska. You just don't know. You don't know that if I left the climate would change, my mood would be elevated, I would have rich and rewarding relationships that are not online.

And I would be a miserable husk of the person that you know. I would feel shame, self-loathing, and contempt for my entire person. I would drink, a lot. I would, suddenly, have no structure since I could do whatever I wanted whenever I wanted. And something would take the place of that structure, and it would be ugly.

And maybe it would not happen that way. Maybe I would just be happier.

But no. It's not going to happen.

You say that this place is bad for me. That's true, in some ways. Many way. But what's bad for me is worse for the kid.

Somebody has to break this cycle, the buck stops here.




As for my happiness/unhappiness, recently. Some of you seemed concerned. I have some bad times. The number one reason for my misery in the last year has been my wife. And that issue is getting better all the time. My business causes me a LOT of stress and I do everything myself. This month I am short one tenant. My last groupon has killed my regular business, and my new pricing makes growth SLLLLLOOOOOOOOOWWWW. My work has socially isolated me more than usual.

Once student loans come back in, and I can focus on slow growth after my groupon, and once I start my new project (this month) things will be better for me.

As for the place itself? I love Alaska. I love the rivers and the trees and the mountains and the fresh air and the peace. But Anchorage offers none of these things.

Anchorage AK is all of the midwest plastic nightmare wrapped into one place. Sure, there are mountains, but they are covered in human filth.

Were I in Talkeetna things might be different. But that's not going to happen either because a four hour car ride is too far from my son. You see a theme here?

Does living here make all that shit worse? Yes. Many of my problems probably would not exist in another place. And I am making a concerted effort to get out alongside my kid's mom. She and I are lining up all of our shit so we can leave. I even told her TWO years would be better than four.

Now, to add moar FUN:

He other son has a father who is a liar, cheater, and a thief, who I know personally, and dispose at levels you people know nothing about. HIS mother is the same. She bought a lawyer, told him to move in, so she could sue for more custody right. So the dad sits around getting high while his son is tended to by the grandmother. It is a cozy arrangement for them. Which is bad. Since they got more legal customer MY kid's mom can't just up and leave.

Now this dad doesn't give a shit. As a pathological liar he will say otherwise, but I know better. I saw him feed his two year old toddler by throwing cheerios on the floor and telling him to shut up.

So, yeah.

I find happiness where I can, and I am succeeding.

Making enough money to leave this place on a regular basis, that's doable.
Anything else...eh....

But you know, clearly he's just a giant asshole for posting this thread, and therefore deserves to be blown up on, called names, and told he should kill himself.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Doktor Howl

I said everything I need to say about him in reply #40.  No amount of miseryguts moaning or weepy victim shit will change that.

I despise him.  I say that about almost nobody.
Molon Lube

Q. G. Pennyworth

You motherfuckers are all going to get stuck with cookies at the rate this thread is going.