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Malazan: Book of the Fallen part one thread

Started by Cainad (dec.), January 16, 2014, 12:33:29 AM

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Cainad (dec.)

So, something like six goddamn MONTHS after I said I would finish Gardens of the Moon "by next week" I finally actually finished it. Because I am a huge dork with the attention span of the Internet.

Honestly, once I hit the last third of the book it was much easier to finish. As is typical of big fantasy stories like this, all of the 537 characters had to be introduced and developed, and then all of the really cool stuff starts happening. It manages to end in a way that feels like a proper ending while still getting me interested in the sequel.

Naturally, I want to draw parallels with Bakker's Prince of Nothing trilogy, but really there are not many to be drawn, other than a lot of the very basic tropes that make up most fantasy series. Erikson's writing style is very different from Bakker's; much more direct and focused on the events of the story than on the twisted meanderings of the character's inner thoughts. A hell of a lot less overwrought prose, which makes it either more readable or less interesting, depending on one's tastes and mood.

In any case, I'm glad I finally got around to reading it. Looking forward to crawling my way through the rest of the series, hopefully at a slightly faster pace.

Cain

The first book is, to be fair, designed to be difficult.  He wanted to drop you into the thick of it with little warning, and have you figure out the backstory as you go along.  The first couple of books are more action-orientated, but later on there is a lot more focus on the characters.  Especially in Toll the Hounds, which is practically one long, semi-omniscient ramble before the defining events.

I assume you've figured out who Shadowthrone and Cotillion are.  I'll just say this - Erikson likes to pile deception upon deception, and play with your assumptions.  Even if you are correct, you'll have only figured out their identities and not necessarily their motives.

Cainad (dec.)

Yeah, luckily I've started reading the introductions to books and went in with fair warning that it was going to be a fairly dense experience.

Shadowthrone and Cotillion... no, I guess I wasn't paying close enough attention :lol: Unless it's Kruppe. Kruppe is pretty obviously everyone, and is just trolling himself for amusement.

Cain

Well, you'll find out in the next book for sure.  I'm not sure I can give a clue without it being too obvious...but there is a clue in Cotillion's name.  It will seem obvious in retrospect...well, more obvious than some other hidden characters.  Traveller, for example.

Kruppe, sadly, won't have a very large role again until Memories of Ice, and then Toll the Hounds.  In the next book, you get a lot more Fiddler, Kalam, Crokus and Apsalar, as well as some new characters.

Cain

One thing I do love about this series is how...expansive, yet interrelated the world Erikson and Esselmont have created is.

For example, there is this curious section in The Bonehunters:

QuoteHeboric pulled the nervous horses towards the trough, giving the warrior a wide berth. As he approached Cutter he shrugged. 'The Soldier of Hood, High House Death. He'll not trouble us, I think.'

'He spoke to me in Daru,' Cutter said. 'At first. And Malazan with you.'

'Yes.'

The Soldier was tall, and Cutter now saw something hanging from a knife-studded belt. An enamel mask, cracked, smudged, with a single streak of red paint along one cheek. The Daru's eyes widened.

'Beru fend,' he whispered. 'A Seguleh!'

At that the Soldier turned, then walked closer. 'Daru, you are far from home! Tell me, do the Tyrant's children still rule Darujhistan?'

Cutter shook his head.

'You look crazed, mortal, what ails you?'

'I – I'd heard, I mean – Seguleh usually say nothing – to anyone. Yet you ...'

'The fever zeal still grips my mortal kin, does it? Idiots! The Tyrant's army still holds sway in the city, then?'

'Who? What? Darujhistan is ruled by a council. We have no army—'

'Brilliant insanity! No Seguleh in the city?'

'No! Just ... stories. Legends, I mean.'

'So where are my masked stick-pivoting compatriots hiding?'

'An island, it's said, far to the south, off the coast, beyond Morn—'

'Morn! Now the sense of it comes to me. They are being held in readiness. Darujhistan's council – mages one and all, yes? Undying, secretive, paranoid mages! Crouching low, lest the Tyrant returns, as one day he must! Returns, looking for his army! Hah, a council!'

'That's not the council, sir,' Cutter said. 'If you are speaking of mages, that would be the T'orrud Cabal—'

'T'orrud! Yes, clever. Outrageous! Barukanal, Derudanith, Travalegrah, Mammoltenan? These names strike your soul, yes? I see it.'

'Mammot was my uncle—'

'Uncle! Hah! Absurd!' He spun round. 'I have seen enough! Hood! I am leaving! She's made her position clear as ice, hasn't she? Hood, you damned fool, you didn't need me for this! Now I must seek out his trail all over again, damn your hoary bones!' He swung back onto the undead horse.

Heboric called out from where he stood by the trough, 'Soldier! May I ask – who do you hunt?'

The sharpened teeth lifted and lowered in a silent laugh. 'Hunt? Oh yes, we all hunt, but I was closest! Piss on Hood's bony feet! Pluck out the hairs of his nose and kick his teeth in! Drive a spear up his puckered behind and set him on a windy mountain top! Oh, I'll find him a wife some day, lay coin on it! But first, I hunt!'

He collected the reins, pulled the horse round. The portal opened.'Skinner! Hear me, you damned Avowed! Cheater of death! I am coming for you! Now!' Horse and rider plunged into the rent, vanished, and a moment later the gate disappeared as well.

This makes completely no sense for the entire of the rest of the Books of the Fallen series.  In fact, it doesn't make sense until The Return of the Crimson Guard and Orb Sceptre Throne...published several years later, by another author and having almost nothing to do with the story above.

People complained about the expansive, almost inexhaustible number of plot points dropped by Erikson in the original series, without considering that it meant the potential for more future novels, and that, just like the real world, there is always something interesting happening somewhere, even if has nothing to do with the story you are experiencing.

Cainad (dec.)

Yeah, my dad commented on how Erikson's style, as of finishing the third book, really makes it clear just how much is going on that he wants to tell us.

I was getting really into the second book, and then I left it in a friend's car :argh!: If I can't get it back soon I might just buy the damn thing again.

Cain

Hell, I can email you ebook versions if you really want them (don't worry, I bought them all on Kindle later.  I always do this with authors I approve of).

Yeah, the 3rd book is where it becomes clear that 1) everything you know is wrong 2) no matter how complex you think it is, it's even more complex than that and 3) the world is much, much bigger than you can imagine.

Glad you're enjoying the second book.  Two further books are set in Seven Cities, and what happens there forms the core of the later books, so it'd suck if you weren't liking them.

Cainad (dec.)

Finished Deadhouse Gates about a week ago. Really enjoying how the story is ramping up.

I gotta say though, the arrival of the Traders Guild near the end to bring relief to Coltaine and Fiddler's group felt like genre whiplash. :lulz: 300 pages of characters being ground into the dust with almost no relief, and then WHAM. I guess that was intentional, though.

Cainad (dec.)

Also, thoughts on first 25 pages of Memories of Ice:

I think the T'Lan Imass are one of the coolest things in the setting, but man... They are dicks.

Cain

I'm pretty sure that was designed to give you whiplash.  Just as it looks like the Wickans would pull through...Mallick Rel and Korbolo Dom make their move.  But that story arc definitely aint over yet.  Tavore Paran's on her way, and she's...well, you'll just have to see her. When Korbolo Dom says "I mean to cripple Tavore before she even sets foot on this continent.  I mean to make her too furious to think.  I mean to crack that façade so she dreams of vengeance day and night, poisoning her every decision" he just shows how badly he understands her.

And yes, the T'lan Imass are genocidal dicks. But at the same time, their ability to engage in self-sacrifice is legendary and with good reason.  Like when they massacred the First Empire, after their disastrous experimentation with Soletaken and D'ivers.  Like Trake says "we tore a warren to pieces on that distant continent.  Turned the eastlands into molten stone that cooled and became something that defied sorcery.  The T'lan Imass sacrificed thousands to cut away the cancer we had become."  Silverfox also has some things to say on that subject.

Also, wait until you see the Grey Swords in action.  Brukhalian and Itkovian are awesome.

Cainad (dec.)

Yeah, I suspected that Adjunct Tavore would not be easy to manipulate like that. If Lorn was anything to judge by, Adjuncts are not selected for their sentimentality or hot blooded nature.

Cain

Lorn can barely compete with Tavore Paran.  Like Fiddler says in one of the later books "The Adjunct's not our Hood-damned mother, Sinter. She's the will behind the fist and we're the fist. And sometimes we get bloodied, but that's what comes when you're hammering an enemy in the face.'

Ganoes and Feliesin also, as you would expect, make some interesting observations on their sister and her personality.

Reginald Ret

A tip for others that consider reading this series: Don't start with Toll the Hounds.
You will be missing some context.
I am speaking out of personal experience.
Lord Byron: "Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot, are fools, and those who dare not, are slaves."

Nigel saying the wisest words ever uttered: "It's just a suffix."

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Cain

 :lulz:

Were you aware it was book 8 in the series when you first read it?

Reginald Ret

Quote from: Cain on February 21, 2015, 12:48:59 AM
:lulz:

Were you aware it was book 8 in the series when you first read it?
I knew it wasn't the first one, but with this series in particular it is very important to read them in order.
Order series are more forgiving.
:lol: I was completely out of my depth, an interesting experience.
Lord Byron: "Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot, are fools, and those who dare not, are slaves."

Nigel saying the wisest words ever uttered: "It's just a suffix."

"The worst forum ever" "The most mediocre forum on the internet" "The dumbest forum on the internet" "The most retarded forum on the internet" "The lamest forum on the internet" "The coolest forum on the internet"