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R D Laing

Started by Cain, February 17, 2007, 12:32:36 AM

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Cain

Laing argued that the strange behaviour and seemingly confused speech of people undergoing a psychotic episode were ultimately understandable as an attempt to communicate worries and concerns, often in situations where this was not possible or not permitted. Laing stressed the role of society, and particularly the family, in the development of madness. He argued that individuals can often be put in impossible situations, where they are unable to conform to the conflicting expectations of their peers, leading to a 'lose-lose situation' and immense mental distress for the individuals concerned. (In 1956, Gregory Bateson articulated a related theory of schizophrenia as stemming from Double Bind situations.)

Laing was involved in research linking development of psychosis to family background. Despite supporting evidence, this has been controversial ever since, and the influence of parents who feel 'blamed' for a child's diagnosis of schizophrenia accounts for most of Laing's unpopularity in many circles. It was an inappropriate attribution by commentators who had not grasped the breadth of Laing's view of the nature of pathogenesis in families, as he had maintained throughout his career that parents are equally mystified, and unaware of the disturbed nature of the patterns of communication.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._D._Laing


Interesting, especially the Double Bind connection.  I'm seeing potential for this both in terms of O:MF and general communications ideas.

Cain

Bump, because it got buried over the weekend.

Triple Zero

it sounds interesting, but i think, as usual you are again one step ahead of us with thinking :)

could you maybe get a bit more specific/practical on the potential for O:MF and the such?

just a silly example would do
Ex-Soviet Bloc Sexual Attack Swede of Tomorrow™
e-prime disclaimer: let it seem fairly unclear I understand the apparent subjectivity of the above statements. maybe.

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LMNO

Yes, this is from Wiki, no I,Äôm not apologizing for it:
Quote from: Wiki the UnreliableThe double bind is often misunderstood to be a simple Catch-22 situation, where the victim is trapped by two conflicting demands. While it is true that at the core of the double bind are two conflicting demands, the difference lies in how they are imposed upon the victim, what the victim's understanding of the situation is, and who imposes these demands upon the victim. Unlike the usual no-win situation, the victim is largely unaware of the exact nature of the paradoxical situation he or she is in. This is because a demand is imposed upon them by someone they regard with respect, and the demand itself is inherently impossible to fulfill.

The structure seems to be based upon several essential concepts:

1. The ,Äòvictim,Äô should not know he is being ,Äòdouble bound,Äô.
2. The ,Äòvictim,Äô has to trust all parties involved, using:
-->2a. Appeal to authority.
-->2b. ,ÄòBonding,Äô with victim.
3. The ,Äòvictim,Äô cannot be aware of the contradictions.
4. The contradictions must be made to seem intractable.
5. Fuck you, fifth point.

It also seems, if this is to be constructive, that the ,Äòvictim,Äô needs to be monitored, in a way.¬† They could find a third option and perhaps learn to think in new ways, or they could experience a psychotic break (or, they could just ignore it and go back to watching VH1 Celebreality).¬† I suppose it would depend on one,Äôs intent, but I would suggest that the first result would be the desired one.

Cain

Exactly.  The double bind was considered the basis of O:MF by RAW and probably Thornley too.  Now, if the application is in fact linked with psychotic breaks, which can be beneficial if the person can synthesis the discordant ideas/problems into a new whole, as Laing suggests could be the part of the key to curing such problems.

If this sort of mental problem is socially constructed, in some scernarios, then perhaps with a more Theatre of Cruelty style application of O:MF there could be more positive results.

LMNO

Please to be expanding on "theatre of cruelty" idea.

Working right now; no time to wiki.

Cain

Antoine Artaud's version of O:MF.  He wanted to revolutionize theatre into a method to shatter our false perceptions of reality.  He believed that text had been a tyrant over meaning, and advocated, instead, for a theatre made up of a unique language halfway-between thought and gesture. Antonin Artaud described the spiritual in physical terms, and believed that all expression is physical expression in space.

LMNO

So, he developed a new sort of symbolic half-spoken, half-movement language that's supposed to resonate with the audience?

Cain

No, he never got that far. 

LMNO

I don't even know how to go about starting something like that.


However, back to the point:  It would seem that our modern culture is full of double binds.  Would it be in our best interests to create more, or point out the ones that already exist?

Cain

Neither do I.  But the idea of using a form of mass media/homogenized experience to do something like that...well thats one I can get behind.

Well, thats the question, isn't it?  Pointing them out is hardly going to win you any new friends, but on the other hand, its far too easy to ignore such things...

LMNO

Not to mention, it seems that the existing social double binds are much more hidden and insidious than any jake we could think up.

Triple Zero

Quote from: LMNO on February 21, 2007, 01:57:49 PMI don't even know how to go about starting something like that.

is anybody here familiar with "theatre sports" ?

it's a sort of cabaret/standup style of improv comedy theatre with lots of interaction with the audience where the performers ask the audience for stuff like "an emotion" or "a location" etc and then they play a short sketch according to some (beforehand agreed upon) rules, with ingredients specified by the audience.
usually done by two competing theatre-sports-groups, where the audience gets to vote on who's best. (often combined with a few selected members from that group acting as a sort of old-men-muppetshow kind of jury, pretty much bashing anything the others do)

i dunno, i had to think of this when you said "resonating with the audience"

gets them to participate
Ex-Soviet Bloc Sexual Attack Swede of Tomorrow™
e-prime disclaimer: let it seem fairly unclear I understand the apparent subjectivity of the above statements. maybe.

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Quote from: LMNO on February 21, 2007, 01:47:24 PM
So, he developed a new sort of symbolic half-spoken, half-movement language that's supposed to resonate with the audience?
Physical emoticons? :lol: (for the sake of it)
Synaptyclypse Generator Publishing Sect, POEE International Resource Center

Triple Zero

Quote from: synaptyx on February 21, 2007, 04:10:57 PMPhysical emoticons? :lol: (for the sake of it)

's called body language i think?
Ex-Soviet Bloc Sexual Attack Swede of Tomorrow™
e-prime disclaimer: let it seem fairly unclear I understand the apparent subjectivity of the above statements. maybe.

INFORMATION SO POWERFUL, YOU ACTUALLY NEED LESS.