Principia Discordia

the machine relies on being able to control people

the machine is driving people insane thru entertainment and drugs (of all sorts - mental / physical)

insane people cannot be controlled


thus
the machine contributes to its demise
and
the demise of the machine is imminent

and messy

Quote from: LHXthe machine relies on being able to control people

the machine is driving people insane thru entertainment and drugs (of all sorts - mental / physical)

insane people cannot be controlled


thus
the machine contributes to its demise
and
the demise of the machine is imminent

and messy

Meh.  That's happened many, many times before.  And The Machine(tm) waits patiently for things to stabilize, and then subverts and dominates the new paradigm.

Historical examples upon request.

Insane people can be controlled...with the right drugs and stimuli.  Also, all these crazy people running about the place are just another excuse for more control from on high.

Quote from: CainInsane people can be controlled...with the right drugs and stimuli

or they can be rounded up and shot. which has happend before

Yep, but only by people who had as irrational inputs as those who they ordered to be killed.  Its far better to find a use for them, a threat, leverage...as every good leader knows, its fear that controls the people.  Of who is nearly irrelevant, so long as the outcome can be manipulated...

so mental slavary?

Nope, just manipulation.  Its predetermined buttons and reactions, press A and get B.  Rarely ever fails either, because its built on a basic element of human nature.  Machiavelli was smart, but that fascist scumbag Carl Schmidt (and by extension, Nietzsche) hit the nail on the head.

Quote from: CainNope, just manipulation.  Its predetermined buttons and reactions, press A and get B.  Rarely ever fails either, because its built on a basic element of human nature.  Machiavelli was smart, but that fascist scumbag Carl Schmidt (and by extension, Nietzsche) hit the nail on the head.

For example, giving them a "choice" between two "opposing" political parties...

Thats one of the old good ones, yeah.  Control the choices was the favourite trick of Henry Kissinger, for example.

Quote from: CainThats one of the old good ones, yeah.  Control the choices was the favourite trick of Henry Kissinger, for example.

Ah, good old Henry...stuck by The Man, til the bitter end.

After The Machine cast Nixon aside, Henry and Dick would wander the halls of the White House, swilling gin and begging the portraits of presidents past for guidance.

Nixon went down, of course, in the end, and Kissinger was left to bitterly curse John Dean, out in the desert.

Needless to say, I have a soft spot for the man.

He understood power incredibly well, which was most of the problem really.

Quote from: CainHe understood power incredibly well, which was most of the problem really.

Problem?

TGRR,
Doesn't understand.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: CainHe understood power incredibly well, which was most of the problem really.

Problem?

TGRR,
Doesn't understand.

Well, I say problem, you say good times, one normally leads to the other if given time anyway...

Quote from: Cain

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: CainHe understood power incredibly well, which was most of the problem really.

Problem?

TGRR,
Doesn't understand.

Well, I say problem, you say good times, one normally leads to the other if given time anyway...

NOBODY is allowed to have fun anymore.

Hell, you get caught with a few grams of smallpox, and they throw you in jail.

What the HELL is going on in this country?

how do any historical examples accomodate the intranet?


also
who are the younger people able to escape the drug-induced insanity coming into replace the current people in power?

reagan got alzheimers
bush look like he crackin down

The communications revolution is vastly overrated when you take into account how many people actually have access to it.

Quote from: LHXhow do any historical examples accomodate the intranet?


also
who are the younger people able to escape the drug-induced insanity coming into replace the current people in power?

reagan got alzheimers
bush look like he crackin down

Hehehe...so, 1 million bitter fatasses are going to have a revolution?

:lol:

No, they'll just sit around and TALK about it.

The Machine ALWAYS wins.

true


but
if you stretch the machine rationale far enough
they WANT everybody on the communications network





as to my other point -
do the children of politicians not watch tv?
are they not diabetic asthmatics?

(edit - that was in response to cains post)

Quote from: LHXtrue


but
if you stretch the machine rationale far enough
they WANT everybody on the communications network





as to my other point -
do the children of politicians not watch tv?
are they not diabetic asthmatics?

Properly medicated diabetic asthmatics.

You think THEY are exempt?

You think the politicians are The Machine?  :lol:  No, they're just the paper-mache face The Machine wears.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: LHXhow do any historical examples accomodate the intranet?


also
who are the younger people able to escape the drug-induced insanity coming into replace the current people in power?

reagan got alzheimers
bush look like he crackin down

Hehehe...so, 1 million bitter fatasses are going to have a revolution?

:lol:

No, they'll just sit around and TALK about it.

The Machine ALWAYS wins.

rog = big man?

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger

You think the politicians are The Machine?  :lol:  No, they're just the paper-mache face The Machine wears.

true true true

but
the machine relies on people right?

if theyre all nuts
(beyond the ability to make rules)

where is the machine?

Quote from: LHX

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: LHXhow do any historical examples accomodate the intranet?


also
who are the younger people able to escape the drug-induced insanity coming into replace the current people in power?

reagan got alzheimers
bush look like he crackin down

Hehehe...so, 1 million bitter fatasses are going to have a revolution?

:lol:

No, they'll just sit around and TALK about it.

The Machine ALWAYS wins.

rog = big man?

Rog = greasy spot under the treads, just like everybody else.

Edit:  There IS no "big man".  Just 6,000,000,000 "little men".

Quote from: LHXtrue


but
if you stretch the machine rationale far enough
they WANT everybody on the communications network

And?  Look at China, a totally closed network.  Comms are a tool at best, not an end in themselves.  And when you take into account the control that a state like China has, or the systems in place like Echelon, well...

Quote from: LHXas to my other point -
do the children of politicians not watch tv?
are they not diabetic asthmatics?

Nope, they got proper diets and good hospitals and shit.  And if they were, so much the better.  It means the rest of us are worse off and cant fight back.

Quote from: LHX

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger

You think the politicians are The Machine?  :lol:  No, they're just the paper-mache face The Machine wears.

true true true

but
the machine relies on people right?

if theyre all nuts
(beyond the ability to make rules)

where is the machine?

You are assuming that The Machine is sentient.

It isn't.  It is a faceless conspiracy of dupes, which rumbles along on sheer inertia.

Crazy or sane as the cogs may be, makes NO difference.

Quote from: LHXwhere is the machine?

To use an overly tedious film "what is the Matrix?", when viewed from the inside.

Quote from: Cain

Quote from: LHXwhere is the machine?

To use an overly tedious film "what is the Matrix?", when viewed from the inside.

The machine is everywhere, is everyONE.

It is the smiling neighbor who never returns tools.  It is the smug preacher who condemns homosexuality while he buggers little boys.  It is the politician who claims he will "protect" you.  It is the commercial for "the little purple pill".  It is the Sit-Com that teaches you to laugh when others are humiliated.  It is the Tivo, which makes sure you don't miss ANY of your "programming", while you slave away for your meager wages.  It is the grade school "Turn in your parents for drugs" program.

It is all of these things and more...it is The Machine(tm).

yeah - i dig all the non-sentient nature of the machine

but
it look pretty clear the bitch is crumbling


the sheer nature of progression from parent to child ensures the machines eventual demise

like i said

when everybody is 'beyond reason'
there is no machine

the machine may be no person
but
it relies on people
and the decision-making-control-seeking capacity of man

Yep.  From the inside, its everything.  Interlocking systems, all powered at their base by the same disgusting need to make everything the same, safe, conformed.  It is its own mirror image too.

Quote from: LHXyeah - i dig all the non-sentient nature of the machine

but
it look pretty clear the bitch is crumbling


the sheer nature of progression from parent to child ensures the machines eventual demise

like i said

when everybody is 'beyond reason'
there is no machine

the machine may be no person
but
it relies on people
and the decision-making-control-seeking capacity of man

Um, yeah.  But the fact is, with 6 BILLION people making decisions, you reach an equilibrium.

The Machine is crumbling?  Sure.  And the days of Theocracy are gone forever.  :lol:

TGRR,
Suspects LHX might have a bad case of Positive Thinking.

i dont know if it is positive thinking

but
like i said before


any end is a good end

Quote from: LHXi dont know if it is positive thinking

but
like i said before


any end is a good end

Now, you're just being hopelessly optimistic.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: LHXi dont know if it is positive thinking

but
like i said before


any end is a good end

Now, you're just being hopelessly optimistic.

contrasted with my other understanding that the world wont end
but instead
it will drag on and on




from what i can see tho
this planet is still there without the machine
but
does no machine = no people?

Quote from: LHXi dont know if it is positive thinking

but
like i said before


any end is a good end

Weishaupt and his cronies believed something similar.

There is what is said and what is done
And what is done shall reveal what is felt.
And just as the bitter heart finds no joy
So to does the bitter leader create no joyous followers

once there's no machine, the people will demand that there be a new machine.

Quote from: doubtless incidentonce there's no machine, the people will demand that there be a new machine.

That is the correct response.

Quote from: doubtless incidentonce there's no machine, the people will demand that there be a new machine.

Well, except that as long as there are people, the machine will exist.

Period.

TGRR,
Fights anyway, cause chicks DIG the Quixotic shit.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: doubtless incidentonce there's no machine, the people will demand that there be a new machine.

Well, except that as long as there are people, the machine will exist.

Period.

TGRR,
Fights anyway, cause chicks DIG the Quixotic shit.

they do dont they

LHX - understands some (many) women have a no-dough fetish

Quote from: The Good Reverend RogerWell, except that as long as there are people, the machine will exist.
Period.
TGRR,
Fights anyway, cause chicks DIG the Quixotic shit.

i learned another new word.

but id have to disagrea. they say they dig that stuff, but then they go for the guy with the sports car.

Quote from: Ignotum per Ignotius

Quote from: The Good Reverend RogerWell, except that as long as there are people, the machine will exist.
Period.
TGRR,
Fights anyway, cause chicks DIG the Quixotic shit.

i learned another new word.

but id have to disagrea. they say they dig that stuff, but then they go for the guy with the sports car.

unless theyre hungry and he aint around

five 2s = one 10

Quote from: LHXthe machine relies on being able to control people

the machine is driving people insane thru entertainment and drugs (of all sorts - mental / physical)

insane people cannot be controlled


thus
the machine contributes to its demise
and
the demise of the machine is imminent

and messy

People are not becoming insane, they are being trained to act in certain ways.  These ways may seem irrational to u, but they support an upper/elitist class that still does very much control you, and your interests, for reasons of their own interest.  If you really cared you'd stop using the internet/tv/radio ("The medium is the message.").  It's use is the primary point of damage, not how you use it (content being secondary to context).

There is no demise.  All concepts of starting, beginning, and process, and all the various forms of these concepts, are subject to relativism.  The end of one tyranny (capital systems that create slaves of it's consumers, producers, and administrators) is the beginning of another.  To draw lines of distinction is only so useful, and to say that ur lines of distinction (or to even imply it through the power of "to be" verbs (ie, is, will be,)) is meaningless to me.

The demise of nothing "is" immenent, unless of course you want to look at it that way.

The dynamics of the Machine(tm) are a lot like the dynamics of theocracy; Heaven for the elite, purgatory for the middle class, and Hell for some.  These dynamics are probably only going to become more extreme as we develop more high technology like nanobots that are implanted in our brains to think for us and pop tarts that digest themselves.  I think one of the ideals of the Machine(c) is to create a real matrix Zion that is actually purely mechanical and supports itself, therefore needs no middle and lower class servants, and easily controls people with Big Brother surveilance, or even mind control.  Some of what I just said is not such a bad idea in theory, but neither was communism.  It would be kinda cool to live in a world of servile machina, or could be hell.  Maybe I'll be the next George Orwell.

Quote from: neongenesis816

Quote from: LHXthe machine relies on being able to control people

the machine is driving people insane thru entertainment and drugs (of all sorts - mental / physical)

insane people cannot be controlled


thus
the machine contributes to its demise
and
the demise of the machine is imminent

and messy

People are not becoming insane, they are being trained to act in certain ways.  These ways may seem irrational to u, but they support an upper/elitist class that still does very much control you, and your interests, for reasons of their own interest.  If you really cared you'd stop using the gloryhole/tv/radio ("The medium is the message.").  It's use is the primary point of damage, not how you use it (content being secondary to context).

There is no demise.  All concepts of starting, beginning, and process, and all the various forms of these concepts, are subject to relativism.  The end of one tyranny (capital systems that create slaves of it's consumers, producers, and administrators) is the beginning of another.  To draw lines of distinction is only so useful, and to say that ur lines of distinction (or to even imply it through the power of "to be" verbs (ie, is, will be,)) is meaningless to me.

The demise of nothing "is" immenent, unless of course you want to look at it that way.

all i know is this:

there is no way of predicting or controlling what a man will do when he is under pressure that goes beyond his breaking point
and
there is no way of determining exactly what a mans breaking point is

ultimately
people cant be controlled OR trained

you can get them to submit to an unreasonable situation for a while
but
when the people start breaking
your ass is finished


'mental illness' is the proof in the pudding
and that shit is not declining
also
the drugs arent working



if the medium is the message
then
what do flash movies
portable video game consoles
and internet forums represent?


mcluhan wrote a lot of other stuff

Where would I be without mental illness and insanity?  Bored witless.  That's where I'd be.  I was diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder myself.  Ironic thing is, I've become a lot more sane and mentally peaceful than many people who live like there's nothing wrong.  Besides, being schizoid is actually kind of a normal reaction to what goes on in the world.  Same thing with bipolar and most of those "mental disorders".  The Machine will never be free of chaos, so it might as well accept it.  Thus, the grim order of a gray machine world becomes alchemized into peace, love, and hippy lettuce.

Schizzy,
the next Terminator

Quoteif the medium is the message
then
what do flash movies
portable video game consoles
and gloryhole forums represent?

Mindless brain numbing devices?  Tools of further "isolation?"  Sexual repression forcing individuals to seek out behavior they see as deviant?

Or they represent some strange will of the collective unconcious of man.  Their message is not an immediately recognizable thing, that is like saying you understand a dream immediately.  Unconcious material is being presented, and I have yet to see things for what they are.

or they represent faster access to the collective imgination where all previous notions of 'truth' are put to question

tools of isolation?
or the real communication we all been looking for?

repression or expression?


if you dont understand a dream immediately then become familiar with dreams

Quote from: LHXor they represent faster access to the collective imgination where all previous notions of 'truth' are put to question

tools of isolation?
or the real communication we all been looking for?

repression or expression?


if you dont understand a dream immediately then become familiar with dreams

The video game industry, and a good portion of the inter net are, or are becoming more so PRIVATELY OWNED.  It is the will of the those with money that u will get from the inte rnet and video games.  And yes, video games are a means of further isolating an individual.  Some might say it's brain candy, but I don't see how it brings any of us closer to the core of the human soul/mind other than seperating it from other souls/minds.

i guess two people can use the same tool for different purposes



a subtle difference between build and destroy

Quote from: LHXi guess two people can use the same tool for different purposes



a subtle difference between build and destroy

indeed. indeed. but don't downplay the effect that your unconcious has on you, and how ppl who know that WILL use that for their gain.

using the internet subjects myself to such a thing.

Quote from: neongenesis816

Quote from: LHXi guess two people can use the same tool for different purposes



a subtle difference between build and destroy

indeed. indeed. but don't downplay the effect that your unconcious has on you, and how ppl who know that WILL use that for their gain.

using the gloryhole subjects myself to such a thing.

true

fuck


the war we fight is so fucking subtle it makes me want to puke

Quote from: LHX

Quote from: neongenesis816

Quote from: LHXi guess two people can use the same tool for different purposes



a subtle difference between build and destroy

indeed. indeed. but don't downplay the effect that your unconcious has on you, and how ppl who know that WILL use that for their gain.

using the gloryhole subjects myself to such a thing.

true

fuck


the war we fight is so fucking subtle it makes me want to puke

It can be blatant too, but we loose the war when we broadcast it on the inter net, or tv.  Because it then becomes a different context, one that is controlled by Privately owned corporations.  We are in the hands of the ideals and beliefs of an elitist upper class.  They define the context that these "mediums" speak in to a certain degree.  I also believe tho that there is a more chaotic element (or it may seem chaotic to me at least) as to how this "message" is communicated through mediums, that we have no control over.

The transistor and data packet is mightier than the sword!

a corporation can own the medium
but
that has nothing to do with the effects that use of the medium can have

you can write ransom notes with government-issued stationery



the fact that we broadcast on 'their' networks means we win teh 'war'
dont it?

Quote from: LHXa corporation can own the medium
but
that has nothing to do with the effects that use of the medium can have

you can write ransom notes with government-issued stationery



the fact that we broadcast on 'their' networks means we win teh 'war'
dont it?

Sure it does, where, when, and how the product is used and why is decided by the companies.  So no, the fact that we broadcast on their networks means they get a say in things.  That is caving in.

Example, Michael Moore.  His public perception (provided by none other than the film studios who finance and market him) is bad, and SECONDARY to the points he attempts to make in his films/documentaries.

If you have ever watched the News, you'll notice that things are ultimately put in the words of the people who finance and own the media outlets.  And it is not just how they edit it, but the fact that it is shown on TV during such and such time that decides who will listen, and what they will listen to.

so somebody has a say in what you just posted?

Quote from: LHXi guess two people can use the same tool for different purposes



a subtle difference between build and destroy

Subtle as a wrecking ball.

a wrecking ball makes no noise as it sweep thru the air

Quote from: LHXa wrecking ball makes no noise as it sweep thru the air

It does if you swing it fast enough.

not if its muffled by loud music and infomercials

Quote from: LHXnot if its muffled by loud music and infomercials

Not if you swing it fast enough.

...


this can only be settled with a wrecking ball and a stereo


what are the odds we are gonna settle this in the foreseeable future god of vengeful hatred?

Quote from: LHX...


this can only be settled with a wrecking ball and a stereo


what are the odds we are gonna settle this in the foreseeable future god of vengeful hatred?

I think I can round up the wrecking ball.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: LHX...


this can only be settled with a wrecking ball and a stereo


what are the odds we are gonna settle this in the foreseeable future god of vengeful hatred?

I think I can round up the wrecking ball.

i got a cd player and some computer speakers

Quote from: LHX
all i know is this:

there is no way of predicting or controlling what a man will do when he is under pressure that goes beyond his breaking point
and
there is no way of determining exactly what a mans breaking point is

ultimately
people cant be controlled OR trained

you can get them to submit to an unreasonable situation for a while
but
when the people start breaking
your ass is finished


'mental illness' is the proof in the pudding
and that shit is not declining
also
the drugs arent working

Let's break it down to the simplest form. There is no such thing as The Machine. (Concepts like The Machine, The Matrix are invented to keep the populace confused and make us think we're powerless.) It's just the same shit since time immemorial--there are rich people who are powerful because they have all the marbles, then there are the rest of the schleps who need to be controlled so that only a tiny fraction of the population can get all the marbles.

The breaking point can be calculated by those who care to know what it is, usually somewhere around not being able to eat or afford housing. So here comes North American society. The rich in North America (international corporations and the wealthy people controlling our governments) rob the rest of the world to make cost of living dirt cheap here. Overfed people are sleepy a lot of the time. You can take care of the rest of the time with TV and video games.

What critical thinking are you doing while playing Halo exactly?

There is also no such thing as mental illness. In the past the mentally ill used to be called heretics. The majority agrees to the way reality is, anyone who disagrees is mentally ill. Putting people on anti-psychotic drugs and anti-depressants works to precisely keep everyone docile=easier to control.

I just finished reading the biography of Lucrezia Borgia, it's astonishing how little has changed in government realms since the 16th century. Who runs our governments? Not the working poor that's for sure. Check out the Bush dynasty history if you don't believe.

Still, you got to keep up the good fight as Chomsky says--he points out that even the Vietnam war protest movement took years to organize. Change can be brought about, but it's a long and hard process of waking one person up after another. It's achievable, and that's not positive thinking here, but it's a hell of a hard job. In the end people will have to wake up or we'll go extinct.

Better hike up your sleeves ladies and gents. We have a lot of work to do.

No such thing as mental illness?  er...right.  I guess that those people who hear voices and suffer paranoid delusions that make them kill others are victims of Establishment conformity?  That psychotics and sociopaths are misunderstood?  Sure, some people have harmless illnesses and there is a nasty tendencey in some parts of the world to use anti-psychotics as tools of political repression.  But that does not invalidate the fact that mental illness exists.

QuoteThere is also no such thing as mental illness. In the past the mentally ill used to be called heretics. The majority agrees to the way reality is, anyone who disagrees is mentally ill. Putting people on anti-psychotic drugs and anti-depressants works to precisely keep everyone docile=easier to control.

Tom Cruise?  Is that you?

There are all kinds of mental conditions that could be called illnesses.  

Most of the drugs they use for depression today are the SSRI's which do not make people docile.  If anything they get people moving.  Back when the only drug they had was valium, you might have had a point, but not so much today.  

Let's see now, antipsychotics....Those are usually resvered for people who are seriously schizophrenic and cannot function in society at all without medication.  If They(tm) really wanted the crazies easier to control they would put them on thorazine(OK, technically it is an antipsychotic, but it makes people non functioning and doctors who have any sense will use anything else).  

I don't know about crazy people being called heretics.  If someone was going to be called a heretic, it was usually someone in a position of power, that way you could snatch their land and other property, just like the witch trials.  In some cultures some crazy people would be shamans or something.  In some cultures they would be court jesters.  I some they would be beggars.

Quote from: Toots
There is also no such thing as mental illness. In the past the mentally ill used to be called heretics. The majority agrees to the way reality is, anyone who disagrees is mentally ill. Putting people on anti-psychotic drugs and anti-depressants works to precisely keep everyone docile=easier to control.

Fuck you.

Quote from: Fizzwitz Glorypoop

Quote from: Toots
There is also no such thing as mental illness. In the past the mentally ill used to be called heretics. The majority agrees to the way reality is, anyone who disagrees is mentally ill. Putting people on anti-psychotic drugs and anti-depressants works to precisely keep everyone docile=easier to control.

Fuck you.

Temper, temper!

Quote from: Eldora, Oracle of Alchemy
Tom Cruise?  Is that you?

There are all kinds of mental conditions that could be called illnesses.  

Most of the drugs they use for depression today are the SSRI's which do not make people docile.  If anything they get people moving.  Back when the only drug they had was valium, you might have had a point, but not so much today.  

Let's see now, antipsychotics....Those are usually resvered for people who are seriously schizophrenic and cannot function in society at all without medication.  If They(tm) really wanted the crazies easier to control they would put them on thorazine(OK, technically it is an antipsychotic, but it makes people non functioning and doctors who have any sense will use anything else).  

I don't know about crazy people being called heretics.  If someone was going to be called a heretic, it was usually someone in a position of power, that way you could snatch their land and other property, just like the witch trials.  In some cultures some crazy people would be shamans or something.  In some cultures they would be court jesters.  I some they would be beggars.

Okay, flatly denying that mental illness exists entirely does sound like a Tom Cruize thing to say, I take a little of that back. Delusional/violent people MAY have something wrong with them, MAY. Some may just want to kill a bunch of people becuase they like it.

Heretics were far more numerous than just the wealthy. The European witch trails alone wiped out somewhere between 50,000 to 100,000 people, many of them poor as dirt. Some historians think the number was closer to 500,000-1,000,000 but since many of the people killed were on the margins of society nobody kept accurate enough records to know for sure.

Even within the mental health profession there is a ton of discussion and dissagreement as to what exactly mental illness is, what causes it, how to cure it etc.

SSRI's work to keep you happy, so I don't know how that disproves my point. Where was depression 15-20 years ago? How come all of a sudden we all have it? If depression is caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain where is the test to measure those chemical levels, because surely no one would put people on drugs that alter their brain chemistry without making sure first that this is what is going on in their brain right? I'm sure before being put on SSRI's all people who are suspected of having depression are submitted to a medical examination/test that measures their seratonin levels.

Many of the things that cause mental illness are things which we have little or no control over--worldly conditions.  Rarely do people choose to be mentally ill, and rarely is anybody not at least somewhat mentally ill.  Mental illness is usually caused by social ills or mortalist madness, though it sometimes is caused by bad brain chemistry.  We have little control over the evil social conditions that we sometimes live under and we have probably no control over the gloom of doom.  Medicating mental illness can be helpful in alleviating mental problems, but can also be a problem for the individual when they have to walk around numb in the noggin all the time.  Doctors always have to respect a patient's decisions about medication, unless they're so bad that they must be put in a cookoo's nest.  Of course, being that I'm Christian, I'll probably change everything so that it's eternal Heaven on Earth... maybe tomorrow... or the next day... or later.  Or not... I'm too busy slacking to be bothered with teh messiah thingy.

Quote from: Toots

Quote from: LHX
all i know is this:

there is no way of predicting or controlling what a man will do when he is under pressure that goes beyond his breaking point
and
there is no way of determining exactly what a mans breaking point is

ultimately
people cant be controlled OR trained

you can get them to submit to an unreasonable situation for a while
but
when the people start breaking
your ass is finished


'mental illness' is the proof in the pudding
and that shit is not declining
also
the drugs arent working

Let's break it down to the simplest form. There is no such thing as The Machine. (Concepts like The Machine, The Matrix are invented to keep the populace confused and make us think we're powerless.) It's just the same shit since time immemorial--there are rich people who are powerful because they have all the marbles, then there are the rest of the schleps who need to be controlled so that only a tiny fraction of the population can get all the marbles.

The breaking point can be calculated by those who care to know what it is, usually somewhere around not being able to eat or afford housing. So here comes North American society. The rich in North America (international corporations and the wealthy people controlling our governments) rob the rest of the world to make cost of living dirt cheap here. Overfed people are sleepy a lot of the time. You can take care of the rest of the time with TV and video games.

What critical thinking are you doing while playing Halo exactly?

There is also no such thing as mental illness. In the past the mentally ill used to be called heretics. The majority agrees to the way reality is, anyone who disagrees is mentally ill. Putting people on anti-psychotic drugs and anti-depressants works to precisely keep everyone docile=easier to control.

I just finished reading the biography of Lucrezia Borgia, it's astonishing how little has changed in government realms since the 16th century. Who runs our governments? Not the working poor that's for sure. Check out the Bush dynasty history if you don't believe.

Still, you got to keep up the good fight as Chomsky says--he points out that even the Vietnam war protest movement took years to organize. Change can be brought about, but it's a long and hard process of waking one person up after another. It's achievable, and that's not positive thinking here, but it's a hell of a hard job. In the end people will have to wake up or we'll go extinct.

Better hike up your sleeves ladies and gents. We have a lot of work to do.

yeah

it would be fun if things were that cut-and-dry


i think i dont see anything of what you are saying except the rolling up of the sleeves
but
that is because it is warm in here





the machine has tricked you into thinking that there is a lot of work to do

Quote from: LHX
yeah

it would be fun if things were that cut-and-dry

Word.

I am but another brick in the wall after all...heh heh.

I'd be intereted in hearing what you think though. How come you don't see anything I'm saying? Just wondering what the argument against my point would be.

Keep in mind that ultimately I agree with you, the "machine" has to fall apart at some point or we go extinct. But I don't see the machine falling apart right now. What I see is the wealthy in countries like ours, where there is democracy and information flying every which way, working hard to control the information and control us so that the "machine" can be morphed into something that keeps the rich super rich even with all the technology and information available.

I don't think any of this is exactly cut and dry, but I don't think it's nearly as complicated as we're all made to think it is either. In the human struggle of us vs them it's always been about who gets the spoils. Tons of different ideologies can get wrapped around this so it looks like the goal is something else (communism, free markets, democracy, votes for women in Afghanistan) but I firmly believe that the first question you should ask whenever faced with any kind of an issue is--who stands to benefit? Who is going to make the big bucks? If that doesn't get you to the bottom of it then it at the very least gets you a good portion of the way there.

:lol:

Democracy...

maybe part of the frustration results from the fact there there does not NEED to be any mental illness

it looks like yet another one of those things that would disappear if we would let it
but
there does not seem to be any chance of that happening



what a horrifying existence
that everybody can conceptualize a more comfortable (more 'liveable')  existance on this planet
but
still cant get anything done



too busy putting pressure on each other
the same way the machine works

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v711/Marburger/everythingisfine.jpg)

Should I make an actual proposition for actual action to be taken to "be a counterfriction to the machine," rather than sitting around here arguing about whether or not there's a problem, would we still be here two weeks from now posting in this thread without having done anything?

The answer is probably yes, and it is a VERY SAD ANSWER!

In any case... I'm going to make a proposition anyway.

There will always be a machine. As long as people live, they will attempt to dominate one another, to convince one another that they are right. Even at this moment, I am doing this by trying to convince you to go along with my half-baked idea. Even if you don't, I will have gotten my information into your psyche, where it can sit around cluttering up your own thoughts.

On the other hand, that doesn't mean we have to stand for it. If you want things to be interesting, to change, to be revealed as Chaos for a split second or two, it can be done. Since I think most of you are unhappy with the way things are now, I think it's worth a shot.

THE PLAN

1. The machine thrives on the appearance of order. Operation Mindfuck: scale it up. Spend all the time you can making someone else's day more surreal. Hell, it's even fun, you shouldn't have any problem with this.

2. Tear down structures that allow influential people to maximize their access to other people. From the inside is the way to do this: infiltrate organizations, then screw them over, taking as many of their assosciated organizations down with them as possible. Targets: the news industry, the TV/movie industry, the video game industry, any other industry, all world governments, the conspiracies that were controlling those governments, radio, organized religion, anything else you can think of... I desperately want there to be some way for people to share ideas on an equal footing, but the internet in its current state is unacceptable due to its corporate-dominated nature and commercialism. It should be replaced by something, but I can't think of any way to keep the machine which never dies because it lives inside us from getting its grubby claws on it again... as soon as we refuse to let people use the thing however they want, WE become agents of the machine, and the process starts over.

However, I'm all for a "we'll worry about that when we get there" approach, because I doubt we'll be that effective. In fact, if we tip the balance too far, we've missed the point and become oppressors. We need a way to get everyone heard on an equal level, with everyone sharing ideas freely and without central organizations controlling the circulating information. So we start with the targets that speak with "authority" and go from there: governments, organized religions, and news media first. We probably won't get farther than that, but it'll be interesting.

If you're not into #2, consider #1, which is really where the operation hinges (even if number 2 succeeds, number 1's failure will put everything back where it was). #1 to convince people that they are free people in a chaotic world, and #2 to tear down the structures that would subtly (or not-so-subtly) retain control, the same program with just a slightly different skin.

So... any takers? Come on guys, #1 is simple and fun to implement... and #2 really needs to get started ASAP, as I've come to the conclusion that things won't be getting any better on their own.

Can't you disable the machine by force through liberating the sheep and setting up a new anarchic goverment? With rules and such to make sure this kind of thing never happens again?

Okay, that does it.

Bye.