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Separation of church and YOUR FACE

Started by LMNO, October 09, 2012, 02:01:29 PM

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The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on October 10, 2012, 10:29:31 PM
JW's actually interpret the 7 headed wild beast as the United Nations, with Babyon the Whore (all the christian religions that are in bed with politics) riding it. The horn that "speaks blasphemous things" is the UN trying to create world peace, which is only possible through Jesus Kingdom. They also believe that the Beast will turn on the Harlot and kill her, that is, the governments will recoginize that most of the worlds problems stem from religion, so they'll turn on religion, destroying it utterly and that is the beginning of the Great Tribulation which precedes Armeggedon.

JW's see all other Christian religions the way that Evangelical protestants see the Catholics.

JWs are also enrolled in a religion that says that 1/3rd AT MOST of them get into heaven, no matter how good they are.

So I don't think I'll be listening to them.

My favorite interpretation is that the 7 headed beast is actually the successor kingdoms to Alexander's empire, which would mean that John of Patmos successfully predicted something that happened 300 years before he was born.

Let's try that out:  I predict that America will break free from England in a revolutionary war.

I IZ PROPHET!
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

deadfong

Quote from: Man Yellow on October 10, 2012, 10:22:05 PM
The wikipedia short & dirty:

QuoteIn contrast to the canonical gospels which paint Judas as a betrayer of Christ who delivered him up to the authorities for crucifixion, the Gospel of Judas portrays Judas's actions as done in obedience to instructions given by Christ. The document also suggests that Christ planned the course of events which led to his death. This portrayal seems to conform to a notion current in some forms of Gnosticism, that the human form is a spiritual prison, that Judas thus served Christ by helping to release Christ's soul from its physical constraints, and that two kinds of human beings exist: the men furnished with the immortal soul which is "from the eternal realms" and "will abide there always" ("the strong and holy generation...with no ruler over it", to whom Judas belongs), and the other ones, the majority of mankind, who are mortal and therefore unable to reach the salvation. The Gospel of Judas does not claim that the other disciples knew about Jesus's true teachings. On the contrary, it asserts that they had not learned the true Gospel, which Jesus taught only to Judas Iscariot, the sole follower belonging to the "holy generation" among the disciples.

Also, stars fighting in the sky, and Jesus laughing a lot and telling Judas that EVERYTHING WILL BE FINE.

Yeah, the first half of that is wrong.  The first edition of the Gospel of Judas published by National Geographic played up the angle that Judas was Jesus' best friend,
and Judas was just doing what Jesus asked him to do.  Turns out the translation team made a couple of serious mistakes (which, to their credit, they fixed in the
critical edition of the text, but probably no one except scholars look at that) - the Jesus in the Gospel of Judas is a thoroughly spiritual being who comes and goes
to the "great and holy generation" at will.  He has no need for Judas to help get him crucified, nor does he order him to, he merely says, this is what's going to happen,
and it's not to Judas' credit.  It is, in fact, worse than anything the disciples are doing, and the disciples are actively leading ordinary Christians astray.  And Jesus only
reveals the truth to Judas apparently to make him suffer, because Judas won't ever have any part of the great and holy generation.  I find the Jesus portrayed in the
Gospel of Judas to be kind of a dick.

I should mention that I'm halfway through writing my dissertation on the Gospel of Judas.  Most of what first came out about it, like that first book, and the godawful
fucking "documentary" aired on the National Geographic Channel, tries to spin it in a positive light, but it's not.  It's a second-century hit-piece against apostolic
Christianity.

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: deadfong on October 10, 2012, 10:32:24 PM
Yeah, the first half of that is wrong.  The first edition of the Gospel of Judas published by National Geographic played up the angle that Judas was Jesus' best friend,
and Judas was just doing what Jesus asked him to do.  Turns out the translation team made a couple of serious mistakes (which, to their credit, they fixed in the
critical edition of the text, but probably no one except scholars look at that) - the Jesus in the Gospel of Judas is a thoroughly spiritual being who comes and goes
to the "great and holy generation" at will.  He has no need for Judas to help get him crucified, nor does he order him to, he merely says, this is what's going to happen,
and it's not to Judas' credit.  It is, in fact, worse than anything the disciples are doing, and the disciples are actively leading ordinary Christians astray.  And Jesus only
reveals the truth to Judas apparently to make him suffer, because Judas won't ever have any part of the great and holy generation.  I find the Jesus portrayed in the
Gospel of Judas to be kind of a dick.

I should mention that I'm halfway through writing my dissertation on the Gospel of Judas.  Most of what first came out about it, like that first book, and the godawful
fucking "documentary" aired on the National Geographic Channel, tries to spin it in a positive light, but it's not.  It's a second-century hit-piece against apostolic
Christianity.

Actually, I never saw the National Geographic thing, as I don't watch TV.  I've just read a half dozen translations of it.

And you aren't taking the "stars at war" thing away from me, so SHUT UP.

Man Yellow,
Has to cling to SOMETHING.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

deadfong

Quote from: Man Yellow on October 10, 2012, 10:34:23 PM
Quote from: deadfong on October 10, 2012, 10:32:24 PM
Yeah, the first half of that is wrong.  The first edition of the Gospel of Judas published by National Geographic played up the angle that Judas was Jesus' best friend,
and Judas was just doing what Jesus asked him to do.  Turns out the translation team made a couple of serious mistakes (which, to their credit, they fixed in the
critical edition of the text, but probably no one except scholars look at that) - the Jesus in the Gospel of Judas is a thoroughly spiritual being who comes and goes
to the "great and holy generation" at will.  He has no need for Judas to help get him crucified, nor does he order him to, he merely says, this is what's going to happen,
and it's not to Judas' credit.  It is, in fact, worse than anything the disciples are doing, and the disciples are actively leading ordinary Christians astray.  And Jesus only
reveals the truth to Judas apparently to make him suffer, because Judas won't ever have any part of the great and holy generation.  I find the Jesus portrayed in the
Gospel of Judas to be kind of a dick.

I should mention that I'm halfway through writing my dissertation on the Gospel of Judas.  Most of what first came out about it, like that first book, and the godawful
fucking "documentary" aired on the National Geographic Channel, tries to spin it in a positive light, but it's not.  It's a second-century hit-piece against apostolic
Christianity.

Actually, I never saw the National Geographic thing, as I don't watch TV.  I've just read a half dozen translations of it.

And you aren't taking the "stars at war" thing away from me, so SHUT UP.

Man Yellow,
Has to cling to SOMETHING.

Wouldn't dream of it.  Especially since that is part of the text:

[Judas] said, "Teacher,
why [do you laugh at us?"]
[Jesus] answered him, [and said], "I am not
laughing [at you (pl.)], but at the error
of the stars, because these six
stars wander with these five
warriors, and all of them
will perish with their creations."

Incidentally, every time Jesus says, "I'm not laughing at you, but..." he is actually laughing at you.  Like I said, a dick.

Don Coyote

Quote from: Man Yellow on October 10, 2012, 10:22:05 PM
The wikipedia short & dirty:

QuoteIn contrast to the canonical gospels which paint Judas as a betrayer of Christ who delivered him up to the authorities for crucifixion, the Gospel of Judas portrays Judas's actions as done in obedience to instructions given by Christ. The document also suggests that Christ planned the course of events which led to his death. This portrayal seems to conform to a notion current in some forms of Gnosticism, that the human form is a spiritual prison, that Judas thus served Christ by helping to release Christ's soul from its physical constraints, and that two kinds of human beings exist: the men furnished with the immortal soul which is "from the eternal realms" and "will abide there always" ("the strong and holy generation...with no ruler over it", to whom Judas belongs), and the other ones, the majority of mankind, who are mortal and therefore unable to reach the salvation. The Gospel of Judas does not claim that the other disciples knew about Jesus's true teachings. On the contrary, it asserts that they had not learned the true Gospel, which Jesus taught only to Judas Iscariot, the sole follower belonging to the "holy generation" among the disciples.

Also, stars fighting in the sky, and Jesus laughing a lot and telling Judas that EVERYTHING WILL BE FINE.

I don't remember stars fighting the sky. Has more of the Gospel of Judas popped up?

deadfong

Quote from: American Jackal on October 10, 2012, 10:46:22 PM
Quote from: Man Yellow on October 10, 2012, 10:22:05 PM
The wikipedia short & dirty:

QuoteIn contrast to the canonical gospels which paint Judas as a betrayer of Christ who delivered him up to the authorities for crucifixion, the Gospel of Judas portrays Judas's actions as done in obedience to instructions given by Christ. The document also suggests that Christ planned the course of events which led to his death. This portrayal seems to conform to a notion current in some forms of Gnosticism, that the human form is a spiritual prison, that Judas thus served Christ by helping to release Christ's soul from its physical constraints, and that two kinds of human beings exist: the men furnished with the immortal soul which is "from the eternal realms" and "will abide there always" ("the strong and holy generation...with no ruler over it", to whom Judas belongs), and the other ones, the majority of mankind, who are mortal and therefore unable to reach the salvation. The Gospel of Judas does not claim that the other disciples knew about Jesus's true teachings. On the contrary, it asserts that they had not learned the true Gospel, which Jesus taught only to Judas Iscariot, the sole follower belonging to the "holy generation" among the disciples.

Also, stars fighting in the sky, and Jesus laughing a lot and telling Judas that EVERYTHING WILL BE FINE.

I don't remember stars fighting the sky. Has more of the Gospel of Judas popped up?

Actually, quite a bit of it has.  There was this antiquities dealer in Ohio, Bruce Ferrini, who had the text for a while, but he had to give it back to the woman
who sold it to him basically because his check didn't clear.  Only it turns out that he didn't give everything back.  While the court case against him was ongoing,
those fragments were held as police evidence, and only got into the hands of the translation team in 2009.  But a lot of the stuff about the stars, like that bit
I quoted in my previous post, was in the 2006 edition.

Anna Mae Bollocks

Weren't the disciples a little retarded anyway? They never got what Jesus was saying to them even though they followed him around 24/7 and had nothing else to think about.
Scantily-Clad Inspector of Gigantic and Unnecessary Cashews, Texas Division

deadfong

Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on October 10, 2012, 10:58:49 PM
Weren't the disciples a little retarded anyway? They never got what Jesus was saying to them even though they followed him around 24/7 and had nothing else to think about.

This is true.  It's most clear in the Gospel of Mark.  They never understand Jesus in that gospel, only the demons and one legionnaire know who Jesus really is, and in the end,
absolutely none of them are saved.  (Consensus in the scholarly community is Mark originally ended at 16:8 - everything after that was added later to try to make it not so bleak.)

Anna Mae Bollocks

Quote from: deadfong on October 10, 2012, 11:03:28 PM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on October 10, 2012, 10:58:49 PM
Weren't the disciples a little retarded anyway? They never got what Jesus was saying to them even though they followed him around 24/7 and had nothing else to think about.

This is true.  It's most clear in the Gospel of Mark.  They never understand Jesus in that gospel, only the demons and one legionnaire know who Jesus really is, and in the end,
absolutely none of them are saved.  (Consensus in the scholarly community is Mark originally ended at 16:8 - everything after that was added later to try to make it not so bleak.)

QuoteAnd they went out quickly, and fled from the sepulchre; for they trembled and were amazed: neither said they any thing to any man; for they were afraid.

THE END.

:lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
Scantily-Clad Inspector of Gigantic and Unnecessary Cashews, Texas Division

deadfong

Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on October 10, 2012, 11:06:17 PM
Quote from: deadfong on October 10, 2012, 11:03:28 PM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on October 10, 2012, 10:58:49 PM
Weren't the disciples a little retarded anyway? They never got what Jesus was saying to them even though they followed him around 24/7 and had nothing else to think about.

This is true.  It's most clear in the Gospel of Mark.  They never understand Jesus in that gospel, only the demons and one legionnaire know who Jesus really is, and in the end,
absolutely none of them are saved.  (Consensus in the scholarly community is Mark originally ended at 16:8 - everything after that was added later to try to make it not so bleak.)

QuoteAnd they went out quickly, and fled from the sepulchre; for they trembled and were amazed: neither said they any thing to any man; for they were afraid.

THE END.

:lulz: :lulz: :lulz:

Just one among the many reasons Mark is my favorite canonical gospel.

Anna Mae Bollocks

I like this rant in Matthew. It's another thing you never hear evangelicals quoting.  :lulz:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+23&version=KJV
Scantily-Clad Inspector of Gigantic and Unnecessary Cashews, Texas Division

deadfong

Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on October 10, 2012, 11:13:13 PM
I like this rant in Matthew. It's another thing you never hear evangelicals quoting.  :lulz:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+23&version=KJV

Yeah.  If folks really read the Bible literally, like they claim to, every church in the nation would have to kick AA groups out of their basements:

Give strong drink to one who is perishing,
and wine to those in bitter distress;
let them drink and forget their poverty,
and remember their misery no more.
(Proverbs 31:6-7)

Anna Mae Bollocks

Scantily-Clad Inspector of Gigantic and Unnecessary Cashews, Texas Division

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: deadfong on October 10, 2012, 10:45:00 PM
Quote from: Man Yellow on October 10, 2012, 10:34:23 PM
Quote from: deadfong on October 10, 2012, 10:32:24 PM
Yeah, the first half of that is wrong.  The first edition of the Gospel of Judas published by National Geographic played up the angle that Judas was Jesus' best friend,
and Judas was just doing what Jesus asked him to do.  Turns out the translation team made a couple of serious mistakes (which, to their credit, they fixed in the
critical edition of the text, but probably no one except scholars look at that) - the Jesus in the Gospel of Judas is a thoroughly spiritual being who comes and goes
to the "great and holy generation" at will.  He has no need for Judas to help get him crucified, nor does he order him to, he merely says, this is what's going to happen,
and it's not to Judas' credit.  It is, in fact, worse than anything the disciples are doing, and the disciples are actively leading ordinary Christians astray.  And Jesus only
reveals the truth to Judas apparently to make him suffer, because Judas won't ever have any part of the great and holy generation.  I find the Jesus portrayed in the
Gospel of Judas to be kind of a dick.

I should mention that I'm halfway through writing my dissertation on the Gospel of Judas.  Most of what first came out about it, like that first book, and the godawful
fucking "documentary" aired on the National Geographic Channel, tries to spin it in a positive light, but it's not.  It's a second-century hit-piece against apostolic
Christianity.

Actually, I never saw the National Geographic thing, as I don't watch TV.  I've just read a half dozen translations of it.

And you aren't taking the "stars at war" thing away from me, so SHUT UP.

Man Yellow,
Has to cling to SOMETHING.

Wouldn't dream of it.  Especially since that is part of the text:

[Judas] said, "Teacher,
why [do you laugh at us?"]
[Jesus] answered him, [and said], "I am not
laughing [at you (pl.)], but at the error
of the stars, because these six
stars wander with these five
warriors, and all of them
will perish with their creations."

Incidentally, every time Jesus says, "I'm not laughing at you, but..." he is actually laughing at you.  Like I said, a dick.

He's just doin' what he's told.  He has to tell the truth, right? 

I mean, I tell the truth all the time, and nobody calls ME a...

uh.

wait.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on October 11, 2012, 01:47:36 AM
2 words: Lot's daughters.  :lulz:

It's just like I fucking told you:  There has ALWAYS been Seguin.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.