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I had a GREAT idea for a book

Started by Cain, March 08, 2009, 12:42:32 PM

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Corvidia

What a fantastic idea, Cain! I'd be happy look it over, if you want anyone to do so.
One for sorrow,
Two for joy,
Three for a girl,
Four for a boy,
Five for silver,
Six for gold,
Seven for a secret never to be told.

Cain

Thanks.  Yeah, I may need someone to, when I actually get around to writing it.  So far, its all doodling maps and writing out ideas for government structures and histories of the various nations.  Also, I need to take notes on medieval and Roman warfare.  I have the source books, its just a matter of gathering the information into one place.

My theory is that if I do enough research, while keeping the theme of the story general (ie; the hero is proto-fascist fuckwit, because in the Romantic tradition of hero-worship that has permeated the fantasy genre there is something quite sinister) then I will avoid an idiot plot, because there is so much information and knowledge about the setting, the events will start to write themselves.

Verbal Mike

Seeing as ASoIaF and LotR have both extremely deeply developed settings and very intelligent plots, and knowing that Tolkien, at the very least, developed his world long before starting to flesh out (or in some cases, write) his plotlines, I'm guessing that theory is right.
Unless stated otherwise, feel free to copy or reproduce any text I post anywhere and any way you like. I will never throw a hissy-fit over it, promise.

Cain

It certainly seems a reasonable assumption.

Failing that, I will write a homage to Eye of Argon, in the style of Robert Jordan.  A 16 year old's juvenile fantasy book, stretched over 12 novels and roughly 30,000 pages.

Cain


Cain

Sadly, Jordan proves a lot of other things, like that misogyny sells, and that ripping off your fanbase really is a valid way of going about writing.

Sometimes, I wonder if the "Sword of Truth" series is, in some ways, the literary world's equivalent to the "Adam Yoshida Rule of Wingnut Arguments", which basically states you can tell what the most eloquent and well-syndicated wingnuts really think, by reading the blogs where third-tier wingnuts who, lacking their skills in blowing dog whistles and general disassembling, basically blurt out the truth (sometimes in ALL CAPS) that the first tier only hint at.

In much the same way, the Sword of Truth, which was meant to be a "homage" to the Wheel in Time, involves a sociopathic Marty Stu with a Omniscient Morality Licence, who gets away with (among other things) killing pacifists because of their incorrect moral standing.  Its basically a "do what the fuck you like, because you ROCK and everyone else SUCKS" storyline which, when you get down to it, is somewhat similar to some interpretations of Rand in WoT.  Only in the WoT, the fantastic racism is (somewhat) less obvious, since most of the Trollocs vanish after book two.

Triple Zero

But, you don't necessarily have to like, or agree with the main character in order to enjoy a book, right? I enjoyed Sword of Truth quite a bit. I've read better and it was boring and complex* at times, but when he got captured by that S&M lady and when the evil lord of evil dude pours hot boiling lead down the throat of a little boy buried in sand that he raised like a loving father, only for this specific ritual sacrifice purpose, while telling the boy it is blueberry juice or something ... sorry but, yeah :lol: naturally I hadn't read any of LMNO's HP slashfic back in those days, so this was quite the "ummmm-WTF?!" moment :)



(*some secondary character mentioned by name halfway through the book that I was supposed to remember because he/she appeared by that name, in wolf form, somewhere in the beginning of the book comes to mind. i found the relation only because at that time I had left the book at some other place, so downloaded it as a textfile, and could use ctrl-F :) )
Ex-Soviet Bloc Sexual Attack Swede of Tomorrow™
e-prime disclaimer: let it seem fairly unclear I understand the apparent subjectivity of the above statements. maybe.

INFORMATION SO POWERFUL, YOU ACTUALLY NEED LESS.

Cain

No, of course not.  For instance, I thought Mat Cauthon was hands down the best character in the WoT series, even though Rand and pretty much every female character pissed me off.

But you do have to wonder about the author's motivation for writing it.  Given Terry Goodkind is a Randroid, and wrote his bit about killing pacifists in the run-up to the Iraq War, in a political climate where several well known Objectivists had suggested similar actions, it is dodgy as fuck at the very least, and smacks of revenge/wish-fulfillment being acted out in print.

Corvidia

My dad bought me one of those Wheel of Time book several years ago for my birthday. Could not get into it. I'll stick with David and Leigh Eddings when I want silly high fantasy. AND it has a map in front! (or at least Polgara and Belgarath do).
Also, Jordan's books sound like they're full of dickery.
One for sorrow,
Two for joy,
Three for a girl,
Four for a boy,
Five for silver,
Six for gold,
Seven for a secret never to be told.

Cain

Jordan has...issues with women.  Namely, they have to be bitches, or sluts, or both (or switch from one to another inbetween books).

This, in and of itself, is not necessarily terrible, though in conjunction with his almost painful depiction of miscommunication between the sexes, does become stale real fast.  It also turns what appeared to be reasonably well rounded characters into complete cliché's, and with the plot proving them right more often than not, makes them insufferable fuckwits to boot.

No, the major problem is his excessive padding.  Its probably telling that he intended for it to be a trilogy, and it will eventually have 14 books as a series.  Its noticeable from as early as Book Two, though it doesn't become a major thing until book 6-7, and the ending of book 6 sortof makes up for everything that took so long to fall into place until then.  But everything after that, and Book 10 in particular (which detailed a single day, in which NOTHING HAPPENED.  seriously), is just spitting in the face of his fanbase.

Yeah, the Eddings are pretty good, if you're not after anything serious.  Silk, Polgara and Belgarath are all fun, and the Belgarion/Mallorean series aren't at all bad, even if they got a bit Planet of Hats at times.

Cainad (dec.)

I'd like to take this opportunity to recommend R. Scott Bakker's The Prince of Nothing trilogy. Again.

The main character (or rather, the biggest mover and shaker in story terms, because the story is told from several perspectives) is a monk from an isolated sect that breeds for the strongest, fastest, and smartest among them and trains and conditions them to a nearly superhuman degree.

This character is, as you might imagine, totally unsympathetic to all other people and is basically a sociopath who is really, really good at getting people to become loyal to him. Hilarity ensues (not really, as the story is set in a Crapsack World).

If you aren't up for reading it (I haven't got the PDFs, after all), I can probably draw up a spoileriffic synopsis with focus on this character, just to help develop the sociopathic hero for this story.

Cain

I might be able to find them, I'll look around.

If not, then don't worry, as I might read them later, and in the meantime, I have The Handbook of Psychopathy and the Designated Hero/What the hell, hero?/Complete Monster pages from TV Tropes to work with

(the actual idea for this came from surfing TV Tropes for about 36 hours on end, unsurprisingly)

Cainad (dec.)

Quote from: Cain on June 02, 2009, 02:15:42 PM
I might be able to find them, I'll look around.

If not, then don't worry, as I might read them later, and in the meantime, I have The Handbook of Psychopathy and the Designated Hero/What the hell, hero?/Complete Monster pages from TV Tropes to work with

(the actual idea for this came from surfing TV Tropes for about 36 hours on end, unsurprisingly)

Been there, thanks to your links. :argh!:

Then it makes me feel weird when people look at TV Tropes and are like, "I don't get it. This is dumb," and I don't really have a retort.

Cain

You should say "sorry, maybe I'll just send you a link to something more your speed, like a Barney the Dinosaur fansite".

Zenpeanut

Quote from: Cainad on June 02, 2009, 02:10:56 PM
I'd like to take this opportunity to recommend R. Scott Bakker's The Prince of Nothing trilogy. Again.

The main character (or rather, the biggest mover and shaker in story terms, because the story is told from several perspectives) is a monk from an isolated sect that breeds for the strongest, fastest, and smartest among them and trains and conditions them to a nearly superhuman degree.

This character is, as you might imagine, totally unsympathetic to all other people and is basically a sociopath who is really, really good at getting people to become loyal to him. Hilarity ensues (not really, as the story is set in a Crapsack World).

If you aren't up for reading it (I haven't got the PDFs, after all), I can probably draw up a spoileriffic synopsis with focus on this character, just to help develop the sociopathic hero for this story.

Woh, I remember reading that a long long time ago. It might be worthwhile to dig it back out.